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your thoughts: Did Disney kill star wars because it sounds like they did with the last jedi solo and resistance. — Page 5

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I suppose I’ll throw my two cents in for what it’s worth.

A lot of people echo the sentiment that this current era of Star Wars is no more divisive than the prequel era. I think that’s a misrepresentation of the situation and the only people I see claiming that are those who vehemently defend any and all ST-era content. That’s not a dig at those who do, just to be clear, but I’m yet to see the opposite.

The reality is that Solo was a box office bomb. That has never happened in the history of Star Wars theatrical releases, and a decade ago would be unprecedented, which is something far too many people don’t recognise. Not to mention every single film is steadily returning less and less money as time goes on. Toy sales are garbage, which to be fair could be indicative of toy sales as a whole, but given the success of other brands in similar categories I’d disagree.
Identity politics are massive in this era of Star Wars, and that subject already has enough division in general which has turned away droves of people (again, not saying they’re right or wrong, but that doesn’t change the situation). A large marketing push for the ST-era content was scrapping the EU and dumping on the PT, both of which do have large fanbases, and that kind of blatant and intentional division is something that we haven’t seen happen with the franchise before on a large scale. You didn’t see George talking about how god awful the OT was while promoting the PT. Then you have the fans, on both sides, who seem incapable of having an actual discussion without screeching buzzwords at each other.

And finally, personal feelings of the ST aside, they really don’t add much of substance to the saga of I - VI, and instead feel like a DLC pack for a video game. Remember that this is meant to be a sequel to an epic saga, and what exactly has it added to the story of I - VI? Has it expanded on it in ways other than superficial (character deaths, etc)? Not really. The whole thing feels rather inconsequential.

Compare that to the prequel era. Yes, plenty of people hated the films. However toy sales, merch sales, expanded universe content, everything was at an all time high. On top of this while plenty disliked the films, they didn’t dislike the era and what came along with it. There were far less personal political attacks to drive people away and there certainly wasn’t a box office bomb; not even the dreadful Clone Wars movie managed that. The prequel era was about embracing everything - eras, EU content, everything was accepted. People may not have liked the PT, but they weren’t insulted for it and there wasn’t a collective effort by fans and Lucasfilm alike to get them away from the franchise.

On top of this, love them or hate them, but the PT unarguably contributes and expands on the saga; you can say a lot about it, but ‘tacked on’ isn’t one of them.

There were points of contention in the fanbase during the prequel era but they were considerably more niche and isolated than they are now.

Finally (and this is maybe the most important part of all), kids don’t care about Star Wars. Kids are all wearing Marvel costumes, buying Marvel toys and clothes, seeing Marvel movies. 15 years ago most kids were obsessed with Star Wars and now it’s rare to see many who have any interest at all unless it’s already massive in their household. Kids have always been one of the major target demographics for Star Wars and without their support the brand won’t do nearly as well as it once did.

I think personal feelings aside, it’s obvious that this is quite different to anything the franchise has seen before.

Speaking personally however, I really really liked Rogue One and Solo. However TFA and TLJ are god awful at best and downright insulting at worst for me and as far as I’m concerned, represent everything George Lucas was trying to fight against. They feel lazy as movies and disrespectful of the saga, and for that reason I’ll never see them as anything other than corporate fan fiction, and seeing as the original creator has no involvement there’s actually an argument to be made there, but that’s not the point of this thread.

If you think my personal feelings invalidate my argument that’s fine, but I thought I may as well be transparent and lay out my biases.

I hope Star Wars can get back on track but on its current trajectory I just don’t see that happening.

Sorry for the long write up, don’t blame you if you didn’t make it to the end.

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When has Disney ever trashed the prequels? Kind of odd, as prequel characters are quite prevalent in the theme parks. Jar Jar being the exception.

The Clone Wars movie wasn’t a bomb, but it only cost 8 and a half million to make. Your average Pixar or Dreamworks movie costs a lot more. (According to IMDB, TCW made a modest $35 million domestic, and $68 million worldwide.) No current live action SW film is ever going to have a budget that small.

I think we’re at levels of SW merchandise saturation that surpass 1999 Phantom Menace levels. Kids and fans can only buy so much stuff, and other franchise’s merchandise compete as well.

I saw several kid size Kylo Ren’s on my doorstep this past Halloween, if that’s any indicator of anything.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

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pleasehello said:

LordZerome1080 said:

OutboundFlight said:

Did Disney really have a choice when to came to the EU though? Prefer they make a movie with drama then “well Han couldn’t die here because he’s gotta be around for the Vong war”!

I prefer the EU where Han doesn’t get treated like less than just so a new actor can get a role.

Opinion: Han Solo getting murdered was the best part of Star Wars VII

The best scene for me too.

Yub Nub for life

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Ryan-SWI said:

I suppose I’ll throw my two cents in for what it’s worth.

A lot of people echo the sentiment that this current era of Star Wars is no more divisive than the prequel era. I think that’s a misrepresentation of the situation and the only people I see claiming that are those who vehemently defend any and all ST-era content. That’s not a dig at those who do, just to be clear, but I’m yet to see the opposite…

I think that ever since ROTJ, the Star Wars franchise have been running out of steam.
Lucas had this grand epic he wanted to tell, but he felt like he’d only get a crack at it with ONE film. So he smushed this 9-part story into 1 film. Unlikely hero Luke Skywalker ends up saving the galaxy! The end.
Wait, what? This cheesy space movie because a huge box office hit? Great, we’re rich!
We can get even richer by making a sequel!
So they make another film that pretty much ignores the ending of “A New Hope,” and ends with a cliffhanger, purposely so they can squeeze more money out of the audience for the obligatory third sequel, which will (hopefully) have a proper ending. This film is more depressing, everything ends badly.
But that twist! That keeps people talking. And what about “there is another”? Cheap tactics, but they work. It’s a hit.

Wait, how are we going to wrap this up? They don’t know what to do, so they recycle some of the stuff from the first one, Tattooine and the Death Star. What about “the other” Yoda spoke of? How are we going to explain that? Ummm, do another soap opera twist and have Leia be Vader’s kid too. And Leia can be “the other.” Lets just finish this thing up, because Lucas is tired.
Film’s a hit because moviegoers wanted to see a proper ending, and plus, big budget space fantasy is still a novelty to the public.

With the prequels, it made sense to tell the story of Darth Vader when he was a Jedi, and his rise and fall. But Lucas pulled the same cheap tactics, to guarantee audiences would watch three MORE films.

-1st film about Jedi Anakin Skywalker, and instead it stars some dude named Qui-Gon Jinn and his comedic sidekick Jar Jar Binks. Lucas Film gets your money, and they didn’t even deliver what you wanted.
Suckers!

-2nd film promoted as the film where Anakin turns to the dark side.
People think we’ll get to see Anakin hunt down and kill the Jedi.
NOPE! And we STILL don’t get to see Anakin as a Jedi.
Suckers!
But Star Wars as a franchise is shown to be vulnerable, when Spider-man and Lord of the Rings are shown to be the true champions of the summer box office. We see Star Wars is not invincible, it can bleed. It’s not a machine.

-3rd film promoted as darker, and hey, Spielberg directed a scene!
Okay, thinks audiences, yeah the last two sucked. All the stuff that we heard about in the OT about Anakin/Vader didn’t come to pass, but it has to happen in this one. It’s the last film, right?
Three films later we get to FINALLY see Anakin as a Jedi. But that stuff about hunting down and killing the Jedi? Nope! Only an implied massacre at the Jedi pre-school.

By this time, big budget, fantasy epics are the norm, whether it be in video games, or in film. Star Wars is a drop in the bucket in that respect.
For TFA, Disney needs another novelty, and that’s bringing back the original cast, Hamill, Fisher, and Ford.
But the first film doesn’t even do that. Han and Leia are together for like a minute, Han is killed, and we see Luke’s face at the end for 10 seconds.

TLJ is coming out. We’ll get to see Luke in this one though. And misinformation about “The Knights of Ren” showing up and battling Luke and Rey is put out there, just to create more hype. Do we get any of that?
Nope! They’re saving that for the 3rd one. And once again, recycled elements from the OT.

So yeah, it’s no wonder that Star Wars is losing some of its luster.

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SilverWook said:

When has Disney ever trashed the prequels? Kind of odd, as prequel characters are quite prevalent in the theme parks. Jar Jar being the exception.

Let’s not pretend there weren’t a number of cast and crew involved in TFA championing it as a “return to form”, Simon Pegg being Simon Pegg, and the huge marketing push endlessly touting all the practical effects in the film. They didn’t come out and say “the prequels were crap and this is better”, but in a lot of instances they may as well have.

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dragon said:

your thoughts: Did Disney kill star wars because it sounds like they did with the last jedi,solo,and resistance.

For me, no. Not sure why TFA and Rogue One aren’t included in your post (they are Disney-era Star Wars too, yes?) - yet here goes…

I didn’t get past the first few episodes of Resistance - though I imagine it’s generally aimed more for a younger audience than this mid-40’s fan. I’ll likely watch it with nephews and nieces - seems a decent intro for them into all things Star Wars. Though including a new animated tv series that hasn’t yet reached the end of it’s first season in your post that partially ‘Did Disney kill star wars because it sounds like they did’ kill Star Wars… seems somewhat strange.

What is ‘sounds like they did’? Internet gossip and videos? Other fans’ (or media) negative / clickbait views? Box office? I don’t care much for those to be honest - more of a case ‘did I enjoy these films’? And for the most part, yes - I did. A few parts I didn’t like, or thought could have been handled better - though am still yet to see a ‘perfect’ film (Star Wars or not)

Has Disney ‘killed SW’ with the content you listed? For me, no - my enjoyment of the films (and also criticisms) hasn’t been diminished by some claiming it sounds like Disney ‘killed’ it - whatever that vague / open question means.

Are they up there with the OT? Not for me (Rogue One apart). Still, with an episode to still come with the Sequel Trilogy… they’ve been a lot more enjoyable than the Prequels for me - and has seen the SW universe return to a welcome OT feel and vibe. That’s not to say I didn’t have issues with them (tone and impact of certain events), as well as some of the choice made so far.
 

I’m eagerly looking forward to IX, and also both The Mandalorian and Cassian Andor tv series - with some intrigue for RJ and the GOT lads’ respective SW trilogies to come (though kind of difficult to be excited in something of which we know nothing about - though hope they are both on a par with their previous quality bodies of work). Personally, I hope they’ll be set apart from the main Saga or timeframes we’ve seen so far - perhaps stories around the KOTOR era, or the GFFA set in the future - would be most welcome.


Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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Ryan-SWI said:

SilverWook said:

When has Disney ever trashed the prequels? Kind of odd, as prequel characters are quite prevalent in the theme parks. Jar Jar being the exception.

Let’s not pretend there weren’t a number of cast and crew involved in TFA championing it as a “return to form”, Simon Pegg being Simon Pegg, and the huge marketing push endlessly touting all the practical effects in the film. They didn’t come out and say “the prequels were crap and this is better”, but in a lot of instances they may as well have.

Let’s not pretend there wasn’t a section of the fandom that didn’t like the prequels. You can’t blame certain individuals for trying to reassure those fans and get them to come back. I will concede that the practical effects angle was overstated, as the prequels did have some practical FX, but every movie has some spin doctoring going on in the publicity dept. The sequels and the story films still reference the prequels.

I fully expect there will be some subtle and not so subtle return to form shade thrown at TLJ in the coming year as we get closer to Episode IX. I don’t think that’s Disney’s official corporate stance though.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

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Ryan-SWI excellent post.

Disney did kill Star Wars with the ST, anthology and The Resistance. Been too long since I’ve been in this forum. Good discussion. Thank you to all.

Star Wars was always a limited story and Disney has so-far focused on milking the fans of the OT. That has dried up and leaves us asking what’s next?

The SW franchise has one huge challenge in front of it and no guarantee anyone can provide an answer. What do you do when all your recognizable characters are gone?

In new product design we find it useful to look at similar products and past performance to predict future results. Let’s look at the Batman franchise by way of compare & contrast. 4 films, plus 1 great animated film, and the franchise was dead with Batman & Robin c. ‘96? How to continue? Give some time and reboot. Same character reimagined. Success! Massive box office with Nolan’s work.

Star Wars can’t do that. Is Disney going to recast Luke Skywalker and “reimagine” the character with new stories? No. The task for SW is monumentally more difficult than the Batman reboot. They have to create a whole new intellectual property rooted, loosely tied to, the current SW.

They are smart to tinker on a smaller scale such as the TV properties and the theme parks (those parks make more money for Disney than all their films). This is a long haul type of problem. I’m betting they can’t create something great again for maybe decades with the SW IP and we will see more cash grab safe outings ala Christopher Robin using the Winnie the Pooh property. Or more Nutcracker type grabs. Is a “Mary Poppins Returns” level of anticipation possible for a new SW film? Eventually, yes, but there is no guarantee they will ever get there. Regardless how well IX does the real challenge is in what comes next?

That’s my analysis.

J.W. Gant aka JokerRulez

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I think we are already seeing this. Yes! Good prediction.

SilverWook said:

I fully expect there will be some subtle and not so subtle return to form shade thrown at TLJ in the coming year as we get closer to Episode IX. I don’t think that’s Disney’s official corporate stance though.

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oojason said:

dragon said:

your thoughts: Did Disney kill star wars because it sounds like they did with the last jedi,solo,and resistance.

For me, no. Not sure why TFA and Rogue One aren’t included in your post (they are Disney-era Star Wars too, yes?) - yet here goes…

I didn’t get past the first few episodes of Resistance - though I imagine it’s generally aimed more for a younger audience than this mid-40’s fan. I’ll likely watch it with nephews and nieces - seems a decent intro for them into all things Star Wars. Though including a new animated tv series that hasn’t yet reached the end of it’s first season in your post that partially ‘Did Disney kill star wars because it sounds like they did’ kill Star Wars… seems somewhat strange.

What is ‘sounds like they did’? Internet gossip and videos? Other fans’ (or media) negative / clickbait views? Box office? I don’t care much for those to be honest - more of a case ‘did I enjoy these films’? And for the most part, yes - I did. A few parts I didn’t like, or thought could have been handled better - though am still yet to see a ‘perfect’ film (Star Wars or not)

Has Disney ‘killed SW’ with the content you listed? For me, no - my enjoyment of the films (and also criticisms) hasn’t been diminished by some claiming it sounds like Disney ‘killed’ it - whatever that vague / open question means.

Are they up there with the OT? Not for me (Rogue One apart). Still, with an episode to still come with the Sequel Trilogy… they’ve been a lot more enjoyable than the Prequels for me - and has seen the SW universe return to a welcome OT feel and vibe. That’s not to say I didn’t have issues with them (tone and impact of certain events), as well as some of the choice made so far.
 

I’m eagerly looking forward to IX, and also both The Mandalorian and Cassian Andor tv series - with some intrigue for RJ and the GOT lads’ respective SW trilogies to come (though kind of difficult to be excited in something of which we know nothing about - though hope they are both on a par with their previous quality bodies of work). Personally, I hope they’ll be set apart from the main Saga or timeframes we’ve seen so far - perhaps stories around the KOTOR era, or the GFFA set in the future - would be most welcome.

I pretty much agree with everything you said here , and I believe the series can go forward without Luke . Han, Leia etc . It has before in the form of KOTOR and before that , Tales Of The Jedi comics which spawned it .I admit that I was skeptical when I first read them , but I thought from Dark Lords of The Sith to Redemption really shined . I think that is the key , go hundreds of years in the past or the future . The Dark Horse Legacy series did this to a degree ,although that had a descendant of Skywalker .I think characterization is the key .

https://screamsinthevoid.deviantart.com/

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It felt like TFA was promoted heavily as GEORGE LUCAS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS!
The practical effects were stressed, and we kept getting stories about how Disney rejected Lucas thoughts on Episodes 9, 10, and 11.

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But they did use elements of his story treatments and ideas. I don’t think the emphasis on practical FX was an outright rebuke of the prequels, so much as an attempt to get the look and feel of the OT. Was anybody not thrilled they shot on film?

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

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Since you’re all on the subject of the massive PR campaign to assure fans that TFA was nothing like the prequels, I also remember how the crew was constantly telling everyone about the return to real sets and practical effects, and then a few months after the theatrical release of TFA, ILM released a video on YouTube revealing they employed waaay more CGI than originally thought. I also remember how J.J. Abrams wouldn’t shut up about how they were shooting on film, going so far as to use the exact same type of film stock used for the first SW movie, which is a moot point when I looked up and discovered the movie was processed through digital intermediates, which is IMO cheating. What’s the fucking point of going through all the trouble of using this specific type of film stock if you’re using DIs instead of revealing the film photochemically?

Also, Simon Pegg strikes me as a major hypocrite, openly shitting on the prequels all these years only to happily appear in the derivative piece of work that is TFA.

I sometimes feel selling Lucasfilm to Disney was a mistake. Lucasfilm should have been acquired by WarnerMedia (then Time Warner) or Universal Pictures, because I find the franchise is becoming increasingly tame under Disney’s ownership (Rogue One and TLJ being the only notable exceptions). Take The Clone Wars for instance, you frequently saw characters being stabbed through the torso by lightsabers, fast forward to Star Wars Rebels and most character deaths would immediately cut to a reaction shot.

As JokerRulez has brilliantly pointed out, Disney is currently milking the OT. This is made evident by the fact that so far all of the Disney-era SW expanded material has focused on every little detail of the OT, from the many hours Leia spent braiding her hair between missions to the whatever Luke did in his spare time in the days after the Battle of Yavin.

Right now, the only thing I’m really looking forward to regarding Star Wars is Rian Johnson’s SW Trilogy, after all Johnson has earned my full trust with TLJ. I wish I could say I’m looking forward to The Mandalorian, but I don’t have Disney+.

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I kind of doubt they make the exact same film stock as was used in the 70’s. That film stock caused no end of preservation headaches for many a film shot in that decade to begin with.

Digital Intermediates have been the industry standard for quite some time. I don’t think anybody does it the old way anymore, if the ability to do so even exists at all. Might as well carp that they didn’t edit the film by physically splicing it together.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

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Here’s the HUGE gamble Disney is making:

fmalover said:

Right now, the only thing I’m really looking forward to regarding Star Wars is Rian Johnson’s SW Trilogy, after all Johnson has earned my full trust with TLJ. I wish I could say I’m looking forward to The Mandalorian, but I don’t have Disney+.

Can anyone create a whole new SW experience that is still , … well, Star Wars?

There is no guarantee of success. Will mediocrity be enough? It’s the only way the film franchise can continue long-term so they’ll invest hugely in this while exploiting all other avenues to milk the franchise (TV, theme parks, comics, etc.).

Oh, in my opinion Rian Johnson is the wrong guy to do this next piece of work given the divisive reaction to his only entry. Need a uniter rather than someone always looking to subvert expectations.

JokerRulez

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They don’t even MAKE the same filmstock anymore. It’s pretty much all Vision stock now.

And film negatives are cut still (the Orson Welles film on Netflix whose name escapes me) is the latest example. I know Paul Thomas Anderson’s film the master was done this way as well.

In terms of editing I really can’t think of anyone specifically who edits on a Steenbeck.

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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SilverWook said:

I don’t think anybody does it the old way anymore, if the ability to do so even exists at all. Might as well carp that they didn’t edit the film by physically splicing it together.

Nolan still does it the old way. Ironically, the 35mm segments of his movies had to be digitally processed anyway just so they could go through the Imax DMR blowup conversion. Since Nolan insists on color-timing his movies photochemically, this meant scanning in the 35mm interpositive and digitally blowing that up instead of working from a scan of the negative itself.

For Dunkirk, nothing was shot on a gauge of film smaller than 65mm, so the roughly 25% of the movie shot in 5-perf was blown up optically to 15/70 without going through the computer at all.

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JokerRulez said:

Here’s the HUGE gamble Disney is making:

fmalover said:

Right now, the only thing I’m really looking forward to regarding Star Wars is Rian Johnson’s SW Trilogy, after all Johnson has earned my full trust with TLJ. I wish I could say I’m looking forward to The Mandalorian, but I don’t have Disney+.

Can anyone create a whole new SW experience that is still , … well, Star Wars?

There is no guarantee of success. Will mediocrity be enough? It’s the only way the film franchise can continue long-term so they’ll invest hugely in this while exploiting all other avenues to milk the franchise (TV, theme parks, comics, etc.).

Oh, in my opinion Rian Johnson is the wrong guy to do this next piece of work given the divisive reaction to his only entry. Need a uniter rather than someone always looking to subvert expectations.

JokerRulez

I don’t get why TLJ is so divisive.

TFA was such a huge letdown I had no expectations in regards to the following episode, and in fact I fully expected TLJ to be a remake of TESB in the same way TFA is a remake of the first SW. Once a friend confirmed it wasn’t like that I was genuinely excited, went to see the movie, and once the credits started rolling, left the cinema with a sense of euphoria.

I don’t think Johnson was trying to subvert expectations, he was trying to come up with the best story he could write and direct, which he did brilliantly.

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fmalover said:

JokerRulez said:

Here’s the HUGE gamble Disney is making:

fmalover said:

Right now, the only thing I’m really looking forward to regarding Star Wars is Rian Johnson’s SW Trilogy, after all Johnson has earned my full trust with TLJ. I wish I could say I’m looking forward to The Mandalorian, but I don’t have Disney+.

Can anyone create a whole new SW experience that is still , … well, Star Wars?

There is no guarantee of success. Will mediocrity be enough? It’s the only way the film franchise can continue long-term so they’ll invest hugely in this while exploiting all other avenues to milk the franchise (TV, theme parks, comics, etc.).

Oh, in my opinion Rian Johnson is the wrong guy to do this next piece of work given the divisive reaction to his only entry. Need a uniter rather than someone always looking to subvert expectations.

JokerRulez

I don’t get why TLJ is so divisive.

TFA was such a huge letdown I had no expectations in regards to the following episode, and in fact I fully expected TLJ to be a remake of TESB in the same way TFA is a remake of the first SW. Once a friend confirmed it wasn’t like that I was genuinely excited, went to see the movie, and once the credits started rolling, left the cinema with a sense of euphoria.

I don’t think Johnson was trying to subvert expectations, he was trying to come up with the best story he could write and direct, which he did brilliantly.

I don’t get why some people have such strong feelings against TFA. Yes, it hits almost the exact same plot points as Star Wars(blowing up a third Death Star was especially annoying). But since when has Star Wars been about super intricate and interesting plots?

The heart of Star Wars is in its characters and the drama that comes from their interactions. TFA succeeded marvelously at this; creating drama, emotion and fun new characters courtesy of spectacular performances from previously unknown actors. Yes, the plot is derivative, but it’s also almost irrelevant.

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pleasehello said:

fmalover said:

JokerRulez said:

Here’s the HUGE gamble Disney is making:

fmalover said:

Right now, the only thing I’m really looking forward to regarding Star Wars is Rian Johnson’s SW Trilogy, after all Johnson has earned my full trust with TLJ. I wish I could say I’m looking forward to The Mandalorian, but I don’t have Disney+.

Can anyone create a whole new SW experience that is still , … well, Star Wars?

There is no guarantee of success. Will mediocrity be enough? It’s the only way the film franchise can continue long-term so they’ll invest hugely in this while exploiting all other avenues to milk the franchise (TV, theme parks, comics, etc.).

Oh, in my opinion Rian Johnson is the wrong guy to do this next piece of work given the divisive reaction to his only entry. Need a uniter rather than someone always looking to subvert expectations.

JokerRulez

I don’t get why TLJ is so divisive.

TFA was such a huge letdown I had no expectations in regards to the following episode, and in fact I fully expected TLJ to be a remake of TESB in the same way TFA is a remake of the first SW. Once a friend confirmed it wasn’t like that I was genuinely excited, went to see the movie, and once the credits started rolling, left the cinema with a sense of euphoria.

I don’t think Johnson was trying to subvert expectations, he was trying to come up with the best story he could write and direct, which he did brilliantly.

I don’t get why some people have such strong feelings against TFA. Yes, it hits almost the exact same plot points as Star Wars(blowing up a third Death Star was especially annoying). But since when has Star Wars been about super intricate and interesting plots?

The heart of Star Wars is in its characters and the drama that comes from their interactions. TFA succeeded marvelously at this; creating drama, emotion and fun new characters courtesy of spectacular performances from previously unknown actors. Yes, the plot is derivative, but it’s also almost irrelevant.

+100

DESTROY ALL JEDI

My name is Sprite Pepsi and I’m abstinence till I die!

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This comment gives us all a chance to look at the larger audience of current and potential Star Wars fans.

However, we are off topic with this so I won’t elaborate much…

fmalover said:

I don’t get why TLJ is so divisive.

The challenge for all of us is to accept there are many viewpoints, many different from our own. You, sir, like or love the film and that’s fine, but you need to accept that many did not like it, just as I am accepting that you did like it.

I hated it. Hate. Refuse, can’t, watch it a 2nd time. Nearly walked out the 1st time. Further I will not ever see that ‘Solo’ nonsense. Never.

But your’s and my opinions only really matter as anecdotes to the larger story and clearly many, many fans had a strong negative reaction to it.

JokerRulez

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fmalover said:

JokerRulez said:

Here’s the HUGE gamble Disney is making:

fmalover said:

Right now, the only thing I’m really looking forward to regarding Star Wars is Rian Johnson’s SW Trilogy, after all Johnson has earned my full trust with TLJ. I wish I could say I’m looking forward to The Mandalorian, but I don’t have Disney+.

Can anyone create a whole new SW experience that is still , … well, Star Wars?

There is no guarantee of success. Will mediocrity be enough? It’s the only way the film franchise can continue long-term so they’ll invest hugely in this while exploiting all other avenues to milk the franchise (TV, theme parks, comics, etc.).

Oh, in my opinion Rian Johnson is the wrong guy to do this next piece of work given the divisive reaction to his only entry. Need a uniter rather than someone always looking to subvert expectations.

JokerRulez

I don’t get why TLJ is so divisive.

TFA was such a huge letdown I had no expectations in regards to the following episode, and in fact I fully expected TLJ to be a remake of TESB in the same way TFA is a remake of the first SW. Once a friend confirmed it wasn’t like that I was genuinely excited, went to see the movie, and once the credits started rolling, left the cinema with a sense of euphoria.

I don’t think Johnson was trying to subvert expectations, he was trying to come up with the best story he could write and direct, which he did brilliantly.

I think TLJ is divisive precisely because it seemed to be crafted to cater to those who found no interest in TFA. Everything set up in the Force Awakens, from the map to Luke to Hux and Snoke, to the Knights of Ren and Rey’s history, are all either ignored or confirmed as narrative dead-ends to be used at face value and then discarded. It is not that this makes TLJ bad. On the contrary, taken in isolation it works well. But TFA was the start of a very different story, and to follow it with this is like forcing the pieces of two different puzzles together. It doesn’t matter if Rian’s oil painting is better than the crayon imitation of Star Wars from JJ, when put together it still results in a royal mess.

The Last Jedi as a movie - Better than Empire. As an Episode - Worse than The Phantom Menace.
DuracellEnergizer: “^He’s embraced the absurd. Don’t expect to gain any conventional understanding from his posts.”
A New Hope Technicolor Recreation (Released!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V2 Released!) and The Starlight Project

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fmalover said:

JokerRulez said:

Here’s the HUGE gamble Disney is making:

fmalover said:

Right now, the only thing I’m really looking forward to regarding Star Wars is Rian Johnson’s SW Trilogy, after all Johnson has earned my full trust with TLJ. I wish I could say I’m looking forward to The Mandalorian, but I don’t have Disney+.

Can anyone create a whole new SW experience that is still , … well, Star Wars?

There is no guarantee of success. Will mediocrity be enough? It’s the only way the film franchise can continue long-term so they’ll invest hugely in this while exploiting all other avenues to milk the franchise (TV, theme parks, comics, etc.).

Oh, in my opinion Rian Johnson is the wrong guy to do this next piece of work given the divisive reaction to his only entry. Need a uniter rather than someone always looking to subvert expectations.

JokerRulez

I don’t get why TLJ is so divisive.

TFA was such a huge letdown I had no expectations in regards to the following episode, and in fact I fully expected TLJ to be a remake of TESB in the same way TFA is a remake of the first SW. Once a friend confirmed it wasn’t like that I was genuinely excited, went to see the movie, and once the credits started rolling, left the cinema with a sense of euphoria.

I don’t think Johnson was trying to subvert expectations, he was trying to come up with the best story he could write and direct, which he did brilliantly.

  1. Because JJ Abrams said that TFA “had” to be a repeat of “A New Hope” to get audiences back on board with Star Wars. Once that first film was out the way, they could do their own thing for the next two.
    But…we got a repeat of ESB and a dash of ROTJ.

2)Hyping up Luke Skywalker and him wanting to be found, then ignoring all that and have him be all cranky and act out of character left a bad taste for many fans.

3)Where were the “Knights of Ren”? We get recycle shots of ESB, a widely criticized casino, detour, but nothing really new.

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pleasehello said:

fmalover said:

JokerRulez said:

Here’s the HUGE gamble Disney is making:

fmalover said:

Right now, the only thing I’m really looking forward to regarding Star Wars is Rian Johnson’s SW Trilogy, after all Johnson has earned my full trust with TLJ. I wish I could say I’m looking forward to The Mandalorian, but I don’t have Disney+.

Can anyone create a whole new SW experience that is still , … well, Star Wars?

There is no guarantee of success. Will mediocrity be enough? It’s the only way the film franchise can continue long-term so they’ll invest hugely in this while exploiting all other avenues to milk the franchise (TV, theme parks, comics, etc.).

Oh, in my opinion Rian Johnson is the wrong guy to do this next piece of work given the divisive reaction to his only entry. Need a uniter rather than someone always looking to subvert expectations.

JokerRulez

I don’t get why TLJ is so divisive.

TFA was such a huge letdown I had no expectations in regards to the following episode, and in fact I fully expected TLJ to be a remake of TESB in the same way TFA is a remake of the first SW. Once a friend confirmed it wasn’t like that I was genuinely excited, went to see the movie, and once the credits started rolling, left the cinema with a sense of euphoria.

I don’t think Johnson was trying to subvert expectations, he was trying to come up with the best story he could write and direct, which he did brilliantly.

I don’t get why some people have such strong feelings against TFA. Yes, it hits almost the exact same plot points as Star Wars(blowing up a third Death Star was especially annoying). But since when has Star Wars been about super intricate and interesting plots?

The heart of Star Wars is in its characters and the drama that comes from their interactions. TFA succeeded marvelously at this; creating drama, emotion and fun new characters courtesy of spectacular performances from previously unknown actors. Yes, the plot is derivative, but it’s also almost irrelevant.

Good point, and I completely agree with you that the success of Star Wars is that it’s character driven.
But can a Star Wars film not aim a little higher? There’s a lot more competition in this genre than there was back in '78 and '80. You gotta step it up.