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Originally posted by: battlewars
btw whos that bitch in your signature adam?
btw whos that bitch in your signature adam?
Hot.like.fire
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who misses the prequels? — Page 3
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Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
Now, imagine if Lucas had included the scene with Qui-Gon. To the viewer, Yoda's revelation to Obi-Wan would have seemed somewhat repetitive, and wouldn't have as much of a "WTF was that? Cool. Wow!" reaction, since the viewer would already know everything by seeing Qui-Gon telling all of this to Yoda.
I think it's cool that it gives us something to think about. And.. if we want a specific answer, we can choose to read the novel.
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Then they were either:
A. Not paying attention
B. Not using their brain
C. All of the above
Now, imagine if Lucas had included the scene with Qui-Gon. To the viewer, Yoda's revelation to Obi-Wan would have seemed somewhat repetitive, and wouldn't have as much of a "WTF was that? Cool. Wow!" reaction, since the viewer would already know everything by seeing Qui-Gon telling all of this to Yoda.
I think it's cool that it gives us something to think about. And.. if we want a specific answer, we can choose to read the novel.
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Then they were either:
A. Not paying attention
B. Not using their brain
C. All of the above
If the qui-gon information had been included it wouldn't have been repetitive to have Yoda tell Kenobi. Why? Well, from the Qui-gon information it gives us that he's going to train Yoda and, that a sith can't be a force ghost. In the conversation with Kenobi he says that he's going to train him to talk to Qui-gon. Without it you get this Yoda tells Kenobi that he'll teach him how to communicate with Qui-gon and, that Qui-gon found the path of immortallity. You lose the information that a Sith can't become a Force ghost. Thus, if you think of all the Episodes as one story it's implied that could still Anakin be a sith when he dies and, get's to be a force ghost because, he's the chosen one.
Also, your comment about just read the novel. You said that to me once about trying to get the "No!" at the end of Sith. I don't think a person should have to read a novel just to understand why a character is meditating. Especially when it's important to the overall story. Oh, yeah and, I found that passage in the novel on the internet about that scene and, it still didn't address my question(s). Why does he still care about Padmé? Why is he still Anakin and, not yet truely Vader?
And, your comment about not using thier brain. I think your not using your brain in thinking that the scene was clear that he was meditating with Qui-gon. All we see from the character is we see him escape saying he's going into exile, meditation, going to deal with the babies, talking about where the babies go, telling Kenobi he can speak with Qui-gon and, he's found the path of immortality. There's nothing but, outside sources to say that his meditation is speaking with Qui-gon. It gives it more of a "Where the hell did that come from?"/"Well, that was random."/"So, when does he find this out?" moment. From how it's presented it looks like he's thinking of a place to go not he just found out Qui-gon's immortal.
Edit: Oh, yeah and, in line with the topic. I don't miss the prequels becuase, they're out on DVD and, I bought them. Can't miss something you own. I do however, miss the OT. Since, I only own the DVD versions and, have yet to decide on getting an ebay account and, buying a VHS or, laserdisc/get a fan preservation. I used to own Star Wars on tape but, it has gotten lost. I don't know if the ESB and, Jedi I had was the Special edition or the originals(it was taped off a TV broadcast and, I assume it was the SE's but, have started to wonder). They got ruined because, of time nonetheless.
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Originally posted by: battlewars
the only reason i understood it was probably because i knew lucas intentions, i think i wouldve been confused otherwise. btw whos that bitch in your signature adam?
the only reason i understood it was probably because i knew lucas intentions, i think i wouldve been confused otherwise. btw whos that bitch in your signature adam?
excuse me battlewars, dont call her a bitch if you dont know her.
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Originally posted by: battlewars
yeah but no one understood this at least know one i knew
yeah but no one understood this at least know one i knew
Oh, come on! It's very easy to understand, and very explicit...
It's wonderful how the fans can yell against the "too-many-infos-that-ruin-the-mystery", and yell as well when some things are just suggested...
I agree with Adam, if Lucas would have shown Qui-Gon, it's sure that many fans would have critisized it...
Sometimes, I think that it must be hard to be George Lucas, with many fans yelling for every thing he puts in the SW universe...
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Originally posted by: Kaal-Jhyy
Oh, come on! It's very easy to understand, and very explicit...
It's wonderful how the fans can yell against the "too-many-infos-that-ruin-the-mystery", and yell as well when some things are just suggested...
I agree with Adam, if Lucas would have shown Qui-Gon, it's sure that many fans would have critisized it...
Sometimes, I think that it must be hard to be George Lucas, with many fans yelling for every thing he puts in the SW universe...
Originally posted by: battlewars
yeah but no one understood this at least know one i knew
yeah but no one understood this at least know one i knew
Oh, come on! It's very easy to understand, and very explicit...
It's wonderful how the fans can yell against the "too-many-infos-that-ruin-the-mystery", and yell as well when some things are just suggested...
I agree with Adam, if Lucas would have shown Qui-Gon, it's sure that many fans would have critisized it...
Sometimes, I think that it must be hard to be George Lucas, with many fans yelling for every thing he puts in the SW universe...
That's one of the reasons I defend the PT. When he was asked in the early 90's why on earth he was starting the PT with Anakoin as a nine year old, he replied that he was telling the story that he intended to tell. Not the fans' story, or Spielberg's story, or anyone's story but his. From what I can tell, he did what he thought was best for the story. Now, he has said himself that you cannot please everyone because Star Wars fans, and sci-fi fans in general are "very independent minded people who have a very clear idea of what they want to see."
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That's one of the reasons I defend the PT. When he was asked in the early 90's why on earth he was starting the PT with Anakoin as a nine year old, he replied that he was telling the story that he intended to tell. Not the fans' story, or Spielberg's story, or anyone's story but his. From what I can tell, he did what he thought was best for the story. Now, he has said himself that you cannot please everyone because Star Wars fans, and sci-fi fans in general are "very independent minded people who have a very clear idea of what they want to see."
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Now I don't have a problem with Lucas doing whatever story he wanted, cause as I have said before, alot fans didn't have the PT story in their head as much as people think. Most fans who grew up with the OT thought of the duel between Kenobi & Anakin, how Anakin turned, how good Anakin was at being a pilot, and the Clone Wars. Only what was stated in the OT was what people wondered about.
And the thing that gets fans mad at the PT is Lucas didn't expand on alot of those issues that people wondered about in the OT. He could have really developed the relationship between ObiWan/Anakin/Uncle Owen and why Owen feels the way he does toward both Jedis in ANH, but we get nothing, nothing that even relates to the OT, other than that they are stepbrothers, and by that you feel Lucas is just connecting the dots cause he has to.
The birth of the rebellion, Anakin/ObiWans friendship, Palp/Anakin manipulation for more than just 1/2 of ROTS, those were great parts that Lucas just left out cause he wasted so much meaningless time in TPM. There should have been two solid movies of Palps playing Anakin like he did in ROTS, and really understand the conflict within Anakin on why he turned, other than this 5 second switch that totally comes off as contrived and ridiculous.
Whatever Lucas says his story was and is sticking by it, in some ways he wants it both ways. He didn't have the whole story for the PT even written beforehand. He would finish each script right up to the shoot of the movie, he changed the whole turn scene from one part of the movie to the other after he didn't think the first one didn't work. He did this 20%/20%/60% split of plot points for the PT which I will never understand, cause he ran out of time for ROTS leaving out key scenes.
I think what frustrates people is not that Lucas didn't fulfill our story, but he didn't make great movies. I will give you an example of two movies that I had the story already in my mind and one sucked, and one was very good.
Titanic which came out in 1997, I knew the ending, I knew everything that led up to the sinking, but Cameron made a compelling side story about two lovers getting caught up in this tragedy, and overall the movie really worked for me.
Pearl Harbor released in 2001 was piece of crap. I knew everything about Pearl Harbor going in, what happened, why the Japanese bombed us, but Michael Bay was so obsessed with effects, he forgot to write a good story, and the characters were lame, and I just didn't care about them. The only cool part was the bombing which was all CGI, but that does not make a great movie, the characters and the story do.
Same with the PT, if Lucas made me care about Anakin & Padme, and made the story great, even though he may have not fulfilled everything I wanted in the PT, I would have been satisfied if they were still great movies, in the end they weren't, that is why they get criticized. Text
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I often fantisize what the PT would have been like had Lucas gone and done the right thing and hire a good director while he just wrote the story and produced it.
But now I hate Anakin and just don't give a flying rat's ass about any of the characters. Even Yoda. My feelings for him come from ESB. Had Yoda died (for some weird loop hole reason) in the PT I don't think I would have cared. The PT did nothing for the OT. Basically it turned into a crappy CGI fan fiction by George Lucas. And even though the PT is canon, I don't subscribe to it. I would rather have my own vision of what happend between Padme/Anakin/Obi-Wan/Emperor, because what the PT shows does nothing for me. My imagination is much more rewarding.
Hell, the AOTC book is WAY, WAY better than the movie. I loved the book. That book gave a pretty good realistic feel for the romance between Padme and Anakin. You actually felt bad for the guy because he couldn't be with his woman. That was a great summer read.
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Now, CO, I see what you mean about him not doing a good job. But I don't think he intended things to turn out bad. I think that, in his head, he knows exactly what he wants to do, but that doesn't always translate well to the screen. He seems very unorganized and scatterbrained about things to the point where he makes a lot of mistakes. He seems to see dialogue as of little importance, as long as the story and the environments are there. But I really wonder about him some times. I mean, I was in shock when I saw him say stuff on the ROTS BTS footage like "God, you guys already have the props ready! I've gotta start this script!" or "So, this is the lightsaber handle Obi-Wan uses in Episode IV?"
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intended things to turn out bad. I think that, in his head, he knows exactly what he wants to do"
Allow me to tell you what Lucas had planned:
"The first Trilogy will not be as much of an action adventure kind of thing. Maybe we'll make it have some humor, but right now it's much more humorless than this one...a little more Machiavellian - it's all plotting - more of a mystery." - STARLOG Magazine #48, July 1982 "The prequels will be altogether different in look and tone from the existing trilogy. They will be more melodramatic, showing the political intrigue and Machiavellian plotting that led to the downfall of the once-noble Republic. They will have only enough outward action to keep the plot moving. Obi-Wan Kenobi and Darth Vader will be seen as younger men, while Luke Skywalker may make a brief appearance as a baby in Episode III." - Lucas, 1983
As we now know, Lucas reversed several key decisions...for the worst, in most cases.
<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>
<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>
<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>
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I know many clamor for a Han Solo character in this trilogy, but if Lucas would have kept the same tempo of seriousness through this trilogy, I think it would have succeeded. Unfortunately there is no room for humor because this trilogy is a tragedy, the republic falls and the main character goes to the darkside, what is funny about that?
Everytime Lucas attempted humor in the PT, IMO, it failed miserably. TPM had Jar Jar which ruins the movie, AOTC had C-3PO cracking one liners during the most important battle of the trilogy, and in ROTS, Lucas tried to have witty banter between ObiWan and Anakin during the rescue of Palpatine, and it just wasn't funny. Everytime they attempted humor it came out forced, and just stuck out. In the OT, Han Solo, Luke, Leia, were acting out their personalities, so when they were funny, they were just being themselves, that is why the humor in the OT is fine with people cause it doesn't override the situation.
I hate the fact that TPM is a kiddy movie, AOTC, is more of a teenage movie love story movie, and then ROTS is finally serious with a PG-13 more adult movie. It makes the trilogy feel so uneven. Now everything doesn't have to be dark like ROTS, the original SW is light-hearted movie which is far from dark, but it is not a kiddy movie, it is very adult and very funny, ROTJ is when Lucas started to go kiddy.
My biggest problem with the PT is Lucas tried to grab every age market out there and when you do that, the movies don't hold up as well years later. Is it a coincidence that for many on this forum, Star Wars & ESB are their favorites 20 years later? While ROTJ is constantly put as #3 because of the Ewoks and lack of creativity? TPM may have been loved by 5-10 year olds at the time, but 10-20 years from now, those same kids are going to look back at TPM & AOTC alot like the OT generation looks at ROTJ, it just doesn't hold up as well years down the road. They will notice all the juvenile attempts at stupid humor that detract from the movie.
I would have loved to have 6 movies in my collection for SW, for I-III being the more political & serious trilogy, while IV-VI is the funnier & adveturous trilogy. Instead I look at I-III as the political & kiddie trilogy, that is where it failed.
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Originally posted by: CO
...but Michael Bay was so obsessed with effects, he forgot to write a good story...
...but Michael Bay was so obsessed with effects, he forgot to write a good story...
Oh, Michael Bay hasn't forgot to write a good story, believe me, he's just unable to make such things...
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As if you have any damn clue to what extent this may or may not be true.
<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>
<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>
<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>
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Even when he contradicts himself?
<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
<span class=“Bold”>JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.</span></span>
<span class=“Italics”>MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
<span class=“Bold”>Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.</span></span>
<span class=“Italics”>JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.</span>
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Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
"But, it's pretty obvious from his interviews that he knows what he's talking about."
Even when he contradicts himself?
"But, it's pretty obvious from his interviews that he knows what he's talking about."
Even when he contradicts himself?
Yes.
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There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
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