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What did the Prequel Trilogy need? — Page 5

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I had to look it up to double-check ... but it looks like his parents were essentially gas station owners from Corellia. Much better IMHO than trying to retcon another connection between characters who never met, ("Miss you, I will, Chewbacca."), or continuing Lucas's girlish fantasy of characters secretly being raised apart from their puissant family.

Anyhow ... yeah, Wikipedia's good for real-world stuff, but for in-world Star Wars references, Wookieepedia, Domus Publica, and the Technical Commentaries are better.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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I know I've heard it somewhere that Wedge wasn't supposed to be related to "Captain Antilles."

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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It also, of course, fits with the fact that Leia never gives Wedge so much as a second glance at any point.

I'm curious about the connections, characters and, particularly, names that have been created in the EU. I'm planning to really write a "PT". I won't be sticking to the EU versions of events, just as I won't be sticking to the PT (obviously). What I am interested in is names that have already been used for characters I may be writing about.
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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I've been thinking about the Force. A continuous energy field, created by all living things.

I don't know why Luca$h introduced the idea of midichlorians and I don't care. The Jedi and Sith are much more interesting if the Force is part of everyone but these people can actually use it to do their own will. It would make sense that Jedi and Sith are first taught to sense the energy field, then to read its ebb and flow and then, finally, to manipulate the field. The Jedi and Sith and even orders within those groups would differ according to the principles and techniques that they practice. Skills are developed over years and decades. Some individuals may have a particular aptitude and can develop quickly, while others may struggle to master even basic skills.

I think the Clone Wars would work well as a parallel struggle: Jedi versus Sith and Republic versus Empire. This is similar to how the struggle of the Rebel Alliance is compared to the fight between Luke and Vader in ROTJ. The fate of the Jedi and the Sith are inextricably linked to the fate of the galaxy because they represent the opposing sides of the Force which binds the galaxy together.

I don't believe that Stormtroopers could kill Jedi any more than I think "five pistolaires could do in Josey Wales". Sidious' Sith Lords go out and hunt down the Jedi Knights while the battle rages between the Imperial Stormtroopers and the Republican forces. I think the war ends too quickly in the existing PT. When we first see Anakin and Obi-Wan, they should be in their 20s and, I think, the war should already have been going for several years. It shouldn't end before they're both in their late 40s.

When Obi-Wan first notices how strong Anakin is with the Force, the Jedi and Sith have been fighting for years and both sides have suffered heavy losses. He takes it upon himself to train Anakin, because he doesn't think there's time for Anakin to go through the usual training regime and go to Dagobah to be with Master Yoda. The training process becomes complicated by the fact that Anakin is controlled by his passions. This will usually overturn his concentration. This leaves him vulnerable to persuasion by the dark side.

Obi-Wan is a General with the Republicans when he meets Anakin, who is a fighter pilot. Obi-Wan has become detached from his order of Jedi and joined up with Bail Organa's Alderaanian forces. The Jedi are losing and he has lost hope. He senses Anakin's ability and arranges to meet him. He starts to consider the possibility of training this young man, who has such a great aptitude. The two of them could take the fight to the Sith and start rallying the remaining Jedi. He finds it hard to get Anakin to control his emotions but he presses on anyway, convinced that the two of them can save the Republic. This, I suggest would be the "damned-fool idealistic crusade" that Anakin follows Obi-Wan on. If we see Anakin and Obi-Wan stay at the farm on Tatooine for a time, this would mean that Owen and Beru see the change in Anakin that his training brings and hear about what Obi-Wan is planning.

A work in progress. Any thoughts?
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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What did the Prequels need?

Less Corduroy!
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Originally posted by: bactaOT
Less Corduroy!


Y'what?
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Less people who think they know better.
"Among many things I have to be thankful for are you, the fans. I know that some of you haven't liked every single thing that I've done with the saga, and that you have a strong sense of ownership over all things Star Wars. But take that passion and devotion and channel it into a creative project of your own."
-George Lucas
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I have alway thought that since x-wings and y-wings where old ships and all the rebel could scrap together, they should have been shiney new ships in the PT. And lots of them. Just think how long our military aircraft are in service before they are obsoleted. We are just now scrapping the F-14 and it entered service in 1972.
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One of the recent reference books has a rendering of the Y-wing with its fuselage and nacelle cowling intact. Kind of neat. But the rebel materiel was never "scraps" ... Tagge (or was it Motti?) considered the Rebel Alliance "well-equipped" and a threat to the Imperial Starfleet. They did fight their way out of the ambush at Endor. New Republic official historians probably work hard to maintain the mystique of the Rebellion -- that the Galactic Civil War was a contest between unstoppable might and a small band of poorly-armed but courageous heroes. But the fact is they had a lot of support. So much so that the loss of an entire world barely fazed them. (That we know of, anyway.)
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Originally posted by: torque91
I have alway thought that since x-wings and y-wings where old ships and all the rebel could scrap together, they should have been shiney new ships in the PT. And lots of them. Just think how long our military aircraft are in service before they are obsoleted. We are just now scrapping the F-14 and it entered service in 1972.

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. Lucas was more concerned with selling new toys than realizing that by Ep III we should have seen the classic fighters and the Falcon in their prime.
I am fluent in over six million forms of procrastination.
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I have to say, though, one of the things that set SW apart from other sci-fi, particularly in the 1970s, was the lived-in feel of its universe. The PT felt much more conventional, with its pristine ships, costumes and scenery. Everything was just too... clean!
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Sorry that you didn't quite catch my slightly cryptic "corduroy" interjection.

I was really just trying to convey how I perceive the prequels to be very over-dressed in nature, and I'm not just taking in the fx department here!

Plush carpets, cushions and home furnishings, Queen Amidala/Padme costume changes in every scene. Ya know that sort of thing. Seems like every character is dressed-up ready to go to the Ball, ALL THE TIME!!

I much prefer the more 'lived-in' and functional look and feel of the originals. Just
seemed more real to me.

Star wars lost something for me when it became all too clean and polished.


Originally posted by: auraloffalwaffle
Originally posted by: bactaOT
Less Corduroy!


Y'what?


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I've been toying with the idea of whether my PT should tie-in with the OOT or just SW '77. It is clear that Luca$h's story has been played with in every release and that Darth Vader was not initially intended to be the same person as Anakin. Several members, like Anchorhead, have expressed an opinion that SW took place in a broad, mysterious universe and that, with each further movie, that universe has narrowed and shrunk due to the constant attempts to make all the main characters related to each other.

I've been trying to size up how much I agree with that view and what the implications would be for writing a new PT. Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker are now separate characters. Vader is Obi-Wan's apprentice and Anakin is Obi-Wan's closest friend and a fellow Jedi Knight. Vader goes over to the dark side and joins the Dark Lords Of The Sith. He then betrays and murders Anakin. Obi-Wan fights him and causes him to fall into a lake of lava. Vader survives and is encased permanently in a life-support suit & mask.

Being an OOT fan from way back, my main concern is can I afford to drop the "I am your father" moment? It is one of those jaw-dropping moments that made ESB such a cool movie. This leads to an interesting question: can I integrate this into the above situation. Well, I can but... it would make things a lot nastier. Vader could be Luke's father if he was to, well, rape Anakin's wife, to put it bluntly. This puts a new complexion on things, particularly Vader's character and also the way Luke would respond to this knowledge.

Would I also keep that Leia is Luke's sister? I don't know. I could live without it a lot easier than the reveal of Vader as Luke's father. It now seems a bit too contrived. A way to tie up the love triangle developed over ANH and ESB and the threat that prompts Luke to attack and defeat Vader at the end. Nothing more.

Any thoughts?
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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If you're throwing out ESB and RotJ, that means you can also throw out the name Anakin and the lava fight. You can call the elder Skywalker John and say he's in a mechanical suit because of a helicopter accident. You can also go back to the original characterization of Palpatine as kind of an idiot who lets other people control him. You can use the Star Wars novelization's characterization of Vader as the sole Dark Side Force-user around, one of many Sith lords but the last of the Jedi religion, with no peers. It would be neat to see the Sith lords as a kind of peerage or fraternity separate from the Dark Side cult of the EU or the evil universal tyrants of latter-day Lucas. The young Jedi Darth Vader might join them not to gain magical wife-resurrecting powers, but rather for more mundane ideological or pragmatic reasons -- then he would rise to the top and turn against the established order, using the Sith as his weapon. Kind of like Hitler taking over the NSDAP, only for all of Vader's prodding, he only succeeds in Jedi genocide and reorganizing the Republic into an Empire; he never becomes the fuhrer. But he is patient, and he has plans ....
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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The lava fight is never mentioned in any film in the OOT, is it?
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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I don't think so. There was a "molten pit" reference or two in the RotJ novel, which has certain implications regarding the screenplay. But it wasn't in the movie as presented. I don't know what early Lucas's or popular opinion was on the origin of Vader's breathing problems. The only contemporary SW material I have is some Mad and Cracked reprints, and they probably just chalk it up to asthma.

Here's a great line from the SW novel:

"How," he asked slowly, "did my father die?"

Kenobi hesitated, and Luke sensed that the old man had no wish to talk about this particular matter. Unlike Owen Lars, however, Kenobi was unable to take refuge in a comfortable lie.

"He was betrayed and murdered," Kenobi declared solemnly, "by a very young Jedi named Darth Vader."


I actually like Kenobi as a conniving old bastard -- I think it fits better with the theme of youthful rebellion -- but something about this line tickled me. I suppose true believers would insist that Obi-wan's lie was uncomfortable, so it all fits together just like it was planned to.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Hi. This is my first post here. I have been a fan of Star Wars since 97 when the SE was released, but I bought the OOT on VHS in between the SE theater release of ESB and ROTJ. So I have seen and love the OOT. I like the PT to an extent but in hindsight I only like to watch 3 and on. I however do not like how they killed Padme'. I always thought they should have put one of her look-a-like handmaidens in the coffen. That is what I would have done, so Padme' could've gone off with Leia. I think the PT Trilogy should've started with the EP3 plot. Although I love Qui-Gon and Darth Maul from ep1. I also like the last 40 minutes of the Clone Wars battle from ep2. I think everything else I would have re-written. I did not mind the CGI as much as others did, and I don't think anyone would have really, if they storyline had been written better. I wish I could've written the PT, because it would've been an awesome story!
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Originally posted by: AJ
Hi. This is my first post here. I have been a fan of Star Wars since i was 97 when the SE was released
That makes you our oldest member!

Welcome to the boards.

War does not make one great.

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sorry. I'm 20 not 97
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Originally posted by: vote_for_palpatine
Understand that while I much prefer the OT, I can watch (and enjoy to an extent) the PT. I'm probably not alone in thinking that there were elements missing from the PT which would have made it better.

Here's a small list:

An angry, ill-tempered Darth Maul. For a young Sith apprentice, he sure was composed and serene. Why wouldn't he be bubbling cauldron of anger?

Episode I - Anakin at 19-20 years old. As millions of fans have observed many times.

Anakin sparring with Obi-Wan. Lucas loves the obvious foreshadowing - why not this?

Anything else?


1) An arc running across all three movies. I'm not talking about "one event that happens in this time frame" then skipping ahead a few years, I mean a single stretch of time (3 to 5 years) that runs across all three films and sets up Anakin's distrust in the Jedi Council and his subsequent betrayal. Not this stupid stuff in II and III where he's some whiny petulant teenager who essentially turns to the dark side of the Force after 3.5 seconds of thought.
2) To quote a certain poster on this board, NO FRIGGIN' MIDICHLORIANS.
3) Not having random planets like Naboo or Mustafar that show up in one or two films and are completely disregarded in the OT (although Lucas tried to rectify this in the 2004 release, it's still out-of-place). Stick to an established OT planet or use something from the EU.
4) Try to set up the events in the OT throughout all three films instead of jamming 30 different plot contrivances in the last hour of Revenge Of The Sith. It smacks of lazy writing.
5) Comic relief works...in small doses. Having a clearly buffoonish character who speaks in a silly accent is a terrible distraction to the plot.
6) Wasting numerous supporting characters like Count Dooku (guy's a lightsaber master and has, what, two short fights?), Ki-Adi Mundi, Chewbacca (WHY???????? WHY?!?!?), Shmi Skywalker (sits around and talks, then gets kidnapped, raped, and dies), Chancellor Valorum, Mon Mothma (how do you waste someone as important as her?), Bail Organa (what, flying a vehicle around is character development?) and others.
7) Have Anakin feel a distrust about Obi-Wan even when he first meets him, instead of them being all buddy-buddy throughout I, II and part of III.
8) Build UP the suspense! Don't have a plot about a massive potentially damaging clone war and suddenly side-track it to focus on picnics in the grass.
9) Show the seeds of the Rebellion being sown, even in TPM. Have a group of splinter Jedi or Council members harbouring a distrust of the government and alluding to bad things that Palpatine has done, but no one will listen, or something to that effect.
10) No Jar-Jar Binks. Or Gungans, for that matter.
11) Show more of the Jedi Order, instead of a bunch of bored Jedi sitting around in a circle debating current issues.
12) Stop distilling the prequels with characters who show up for 5 minutes, give plot exposition and disappear. It should focus on a smaller group of principal characters.
13) Don't skip the Clone War (and no, I don't count the Clone Wars cartoon as SW canon, even though I like the series as a whole)
14) Stop relying on CGI to make a point. Having a good plot is just as important as trying to showcase the latest advances in computer technology. And what, no miniatures?
15) Have Vader be introduced somewhat sooner (perhaps in the earlier part of the third film) and give him MORE TO DO, instead of having him stand around like Frankenstein 2.0 and screaming out for his wife in a silly voice.

That's about it, I think.
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Originally posted by: crazyrabbits
8) Build UP the suspense! Don't have a plot about a massive potentially damaging clone war and suddenly side-track it to focus on picnics in the grass.


Awesome!
Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Originally posted by: AJ
I however do not like how they killed Padme'. I always thought they should have put one of her look-a-like handmaidens in the coffen. That is what I would have done, so Padme' could've gone off with Leia.


That's what I think actually happened. She had doubles standing in for her to protect her in the first two movies, and that was a neat trick. If a double (or clone, or mannequin, or something) took her place in the grave -- well, that turns a neat trick into a thematic element carried to a meaningful and logical conclusion. It might not have been the auteur's intention, but sometimes auteur's accidentally make things more complex and interesting than they had intended.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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Some great suggestions in this thread.

The overwhelming "missing thing" for me in the PT was the ensemble cast feeling - the "Team" camraderie of the OT. In the OT, you really care about the core characters, and a lot of the story (especially in Ep V & VI) comes FROM the characters.

It would've been neat for me personally to see (a slighter older) Anakin become a Jedi in Episode 1. His first mission with the "Team" (Ob-Wan & other Jedi) would be the exciting climax battle of Episode 1.

He would fall in love with Princess Amidala in Episode 2, but rather than moaning about how they're "holding him back" he would actually choose the Jedi order OVER the Princess as the clone wars start to kick off. After spending one night with Padme, he'd take off on his "damn fool mission" with Obi-Wan and the others. Padme would be very upset with him, but we'd see that his ambition to lead the Jedi team to glory outweighs anything else. The "Team" mission in Episode 2 would end in disaster, with Anakin carrying the can due to a fatal mistake he makes. This downbeat ending would echo Episode V's, and would set the tone for Episode 3.

Episode 3 would play out with Anakin's move to the dark side, following him being "demoted" by the Jedi Order after his failures in Ep. 2's mission. He is motivated by power & greed, not love. By this time, we should really care about the other Team members (how great would it have been to develop these Jedi characters rather than spending hours in the Senate/Padme's bloody veranda.....) & when Anakin finally betrays them it would actually have some emotional resonance - he is supposed to have their (collective) back, but stabs them in it. Anakin sees Padme one more time (like King Arthur visiting Guinevere before his last battle) and asks her to join him. She refuses and he simply leaves her, to go and face off with Obi-Wan. He has no idea Padme is pregnant. Obi-Wan punishes Anakin for his betrayal and the murders of their friends/team mates, with dialogue that rises above the existing Episode 3 "ya-boo, the Jedi order sucks, from my point of view..." stuff.

In this version of the PT, the background characters would become just that, BACKGROUND, not central characters sitting around in endless councils, senate meetings etc. The core characters would be "Team Jedi" and so we would get the ensemble feel of the OT, with their adventures played out against the backdrop of the creation of the Empire & Anakin's disintegration into becoming Vader.

Just my 20 cents!