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Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.
Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.
What did the Prequel Trilogy need? — Page 11
Red heads ROCK. Blondes do not rock. Nuff said.
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Now, the overall portrayal of the individual Jedi could have been better - they certainly didn't appear to be the wise, compassionate beings we were led to believe they would have been; none of the new Jedi, Qui-Gon aside, were especially sympathetic characters - but the circumstance of the Jedi being an integral part of the Republic infrastructure works well in the story Lucas was telling. I admit I would have done it differently, but the "corrupt Jedi order" was actually well executed.
I wanted to care that Jedi were being slaughtered, but Order 66 didn't move me much at all.
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"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself. It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005
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I think it best if Yoda is always on Dagobah and has been for a few hundred years. Jedi go there to train with him but he never leaves the planet. I imagine Yoda meditating and sensing the events in the galaxy through the Force. I also prefer the idea of the Jedi Masters communicating through the Force and, perhaps, the council itself meeting in that way.
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And just another thought. The new Jedi doesn't have to be on Yavin, either. The universe is so huge, there are so many other new and interesting locales it could go to. Luke could even have an all-new one completely built.
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Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
Um, just going to venture a 'hear, hear' for everything this new Noboby has posted. Great stuff.
Um, just going to venture a 'hear, hear' for everything this new Noboby has posted. Great stuff.
Thank you. And I apologize for the stupid handle. I wanted to get into the discussion here, went to create a user account, and found that I already had one, under the name 'Nobody'. I'm not sure what the hell I was thinking - must have been a few years ago - but the site doesn't allow me to change my name, so Nobody I am.
Anyway, my idea of the Temple was as sort of a "Central Park" in the midst of Coruscant, but I like the Endor suggestion as well. I think it's best that Dagobah not be the original home of Yoda, as otherwise Vader and friends would probably think to hunt for him there....
Or wait, scratch that. I just read Marvolo's comment, and I really like this Caamas idea.
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Anakin born and, raised on Alderraan. Before he became Vader last he knew all his family was there and, Obiwan. Tattooine not shown at all. Empire would be around and, the Emperor would only be talked about. Degobah is the meeting place for the jedi as well as the place for all commerce. Vader lead the assualt on Degobah and, thinks he killed Yoda in Episode III.
So I think the PT atleast needed not to show Tattooine....
<edit>Oh yeah and no Jedi Temple....
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Anakin born and, raised on Alderraan. Before he became Vader last he knew all his family was there and, Obiwan. Tattooine not shown at all. Empire would be around and, the Emperor would only be talked about. Degobah is the meeting place for the jedi as well as the place for all commerce. Vader lead the assualt on Degobah and, thinks he killed Yoda in Episode III.
Where does this quote come from? There is one big contradiction, though: Obi-Wan says in ANH, "...your Uncle thought he [Anakin] should've stayed here [Tatooine]...not gotten involved." He couldn't have been raised on Alderaan. Born on Alderaan, sure, but not raised. So, it seems logical that Obi-Wan found Anakin on Tatooine.
So, there is just no way around this "fact." It had to be that way. However, we don't necessarily need to see Obi-Wan pick up and get Anakin from Tatooine. It could be assumed at the beginning of Episode I. However, I feel it's very important to Anakin's development. It's like the "serial killer" component. You want to see what their background was like, and how they became what they became. It's only normal curiousity, and I feel no different about Anakin. Need to see where he came from, how did he become "Darth Vader."
Never heard the Dagobah as the base for the Jedi thing before.
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Originally posted by: Dug
Where does this quote come from? There is one big contradiction, though: Obi-Wan says in ANH, "...your Uncle thought he [Anakin] should've stayed here [Tatooine]...not gotten involved." He couldn't have been raised on Alderaan. Born on Alderaan, sure, but not raised. So, it seems logical that Obi-Wan found Anakin on Tatooine.
Never heard the Dagobah as the base for the Jedi thing before.
Anakin born and, raised on Alderraan. Before he became Vader last he knew all his family was there and, Obiwan. Tattooine not shown at all. Empire would be around and, the Emperor would only be talked about. Degobah is the meeting place for the jedi as well as the place for all commerce. Vader lead the assualt on Degobah and, thinks he killed Yoda in Episode III.
Where does this quote come from? There is one big contradiction, though: Obi-Wan says in ANH, "...your Uncle thought he [Anakin] should've stayed here [Tatooine]...not gotten involved." He couldn't have been raised on Alderaan. Born on Alderaan, sure, but not raised. So, it seems logical that Obi-Wan found Anakin on Tatooine.
Never heard the Dagobah as the base for the Jedi thing before.
Everything that I typed I came up with before the prequels were ever made. So my young little mind didn't think about that line. However, in my scenario it's quite possible that's the only lie and, everything else Obiwan says is the truth. (I also thought of a scene in a dark cave where two of Obiwan's apprentices were fighting in the Vader spacesuits. Anakin would kill Vader offscreen take his name and, declare Anakin to be dead.)
Marvolo: Jedi meeting place. Key word meeting. So yeah I thought the same thing Jedi spread all over.
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By writing this story though, you can scrap anything that is said in the movies. You could get around this contradiction by getting rid of Ben's line.
If I were re-writing the saga, I'd keep ANH and ESB, but make changes with ROTJ (except I'd change only a couple of little things in ANH. Instead of saying "parsec" Han says "seconds" or some such, and Obi-Wan wouldn't say, "Only Stormtroopers are so accurate..." into something like, "Only Imperial weapons would leave marks like that" or somesuch).
I'd really write it so that Obi-Wan wasn't a liar (like I originally believed BEFORE ROTJ). This line out of the novelisation for ANH always stuck with me and wasn't contradicted until ROTJ: Unlike Owen Lars, however, Kenobi was unable to take refuge in a comfortable lie.
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Although, I also thought that Luke would be born from one mother and, Leia another mother(mabye close friend of the queen). So Ben would only be at Luke's birth. Twin could be Star Wars talk for same father. Anakin would take Vader's name in II. Then III would focus on trying to fight against the Empire and, Vader. Then the hiding would happen in III. I don't know something like that. However, I don't see much of a problem of Obiwan lieing where Anakin was. Especially if he thinks that everything else he's saying is the truth(the pilot thing, Vader killing Anakin, ect.). Plus they're in hiding so yeah. I haven't ever read the novels so I didn't know about that line in there. Basically, the way I thought of it Yoda would be the one who knew about the twin thing and, Anakin/Vader thing until Empire. Where he would tell Ben after the "There is another" line. How Yoda knew I didn't really think about.
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In general, I see what you're accomplishing. I guess, to me, a twin is a twin, i.e., born of the same mother. My problem is that you're saying Obi-Wan is lying that Anakin came from Tatooine (I don't know why he would lie about something like that---essentially, 'what's the point?'), but there you have Owen is obviously a long-time resident of Tatooine and relative of Anakin---and he KNEW Anakin. That is, everything he says to Luke is as if he had witnessed something that Anakin did to make him hope that Luke never becomes like his father.
I think the way to diminish Obi-Wan's "lies" and set things straight and make a more acceptable storyline is to do some minor dialogue alterations to ROTJ, and then we can set up a prequels that would be considerably more satisfying.
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(I'm not trying to be a dick, really, I'm just wondering).
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"He should have stayed here and, not gotten involved" Owen say's to Obiwan after hearing the news of Anakin's death by Vader while in his Alderaan home.
Though, I do admit my idea doesn't leave room for the Clone wars. I guess becuase, I didn't think about that until the prequels came along..... Ah well *shrug*.
Though, what do you mean by "Owen is obviously a long-time resident of Tatooine "? Aside from the prequels and, deleted scenes there isn't much to indicate he's been there longer then Luke has.
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And what I mean by thematically, is that Owen is the rock, the unchanging man, the one afraid to go out and explore. Owen is everything that Luke (and Anakin) are not. He's afraid, he's not inquisitive, he doesn't rock the boat, etc. This is why I don't agree with ideas taht Owen would've/might have been a soldier or even a failed Jedi. These characters are archetypes. Owen does nothing. He stays home, he does what is required of him, he's frightened of the world outside of his limited sphere.
So, IMHO, Owen, along with his family before him, lived on Tatooine, he did what his father did before him, and his father before him, etc., much like my own family. I'm one of the few to break out and NOT become a farmer (which is why it was so easy for me to identify with Luke). In that case, Owen was doing what he has always done, and he believes that is what Anakin should be doing, and believes that Luke should be doing what he does. It's all about diametrics and archetypes, and in Owen's case, having Anakin going out, becoming a Jedi, attempting to achieve his dreams---and then become something twisted and corrupt only verifies and validates Owen's stance. You go out, bad things happen to you.
This is why Luke mustn't dream, mustn't aspire. He must be kept down---for his own good.
So, that is why I think Owen MUST remain on Tatooine (and Anakin originated)---originally and conceptually---not just from what he says, but also in regards to who he is as a character. Placing him and Anakin on Alderaan (or anywhere else) originally is not only a contradiction to dialogue from ANH, but also a contradiction to archetype.
Just my two-cents.
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And what I mean by thematically, is that Owen is the rock, the unchanging man, the one afraid to go out and explore. Owen is everything that Luke (and Anakin) are not. He's afraid, he's not inquisitive, he doesn't rock the boat, etc. This is why I don't agree with ideas taht Owen would've/might have been a soldier or even a failed Jedi. These characters are archetypes. Owen does nothing. He stays home, he does what is required of him, he's frightened of the world outside of his limited sphere.
So, IMHO, Owen, along with his family before him, lived on Tatooine, he did what his father did before him, and his father before him, etc., much like my own family. I'm one of the few to break out and NOT become a farmer (which is why it was so easy for me to identify with Luke). In that case, Owen was doing what he has always done, and he believes that is what Anakin should be doing, and believes that Luke should be doing what he does. It's all about diametrics and archetypes, and in Owen's case, having Anakin going out, becoming a Jedi, attempting to achieve his dreams---and then become something twisted and corrupt only verifies and validates Owen's stance. You go out, bad things happen to you.
This is why Luke mustn't dream, mustn't aspire. He must be kept down---for his own good.
So, IMHO, Owen, along with his family before him, lived on Tatooine, he did what his father did before him, and his father before him, etc., much like my own family. I'm one of the few to break out and NOT become a farmer (which is why it was so easy for me to identify with Luke). In that case, Owen was doing what he has always done, and he believes that is what Anakin should be doing, and believes that Luke should be doing what he does. It's all about diametrics and archetypes, and in Owen's case, having Anakin going out, becoming a Jedi, attempting to achieve his dreams---and then become something twisted and corrupt only verifies and validates Owen's stance. You go out, bad things happen to you.
This is why Luke mustn't dream, mustn't aspire. He must be kept down---for his own good.
Word. Big fat underline.
Also, I like the idea of Tatooine appearing in the prequels, but for another reason entirely. In the original films, it serves as the prime example of that "used future" asthetic people always talk about. It's got strange and advanced technology, but it's all worn and shabby and poor and corrupt. Very post-apocalyptic. ...Or maybe just post Clone War...
What I'm getting at is that the planet wasn't always like the original trilogy depicts it. Not that it was ever a metropolis or anything - just a farming community - but a prosperous and civil farming community. No Jabba. No shady dive-bars. A simple but charming place to live - like an Arabian bazaar in so many fairy-tales. ...And then when we revisit the planet in ANH, we see what 20 years of Empirical rule have done to the place. Driven into poverty by the callous and greedy government (much like the decline of Russia under Soviet rule), overrun by thieves and scavengers, and ruled by viscious crime lords who have set up shop in a place where law enforcement is just as corrupt as they are, Tatooine is the before and after picture that shows what the common citizen has to lose.
Of course, how and where you use that is totally up in the air.
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Originally posted by: Dug
And just another thought. The new Jedi doesn't have to be on Yavin, either. The universe is so huge, there are so many other new and interesting locales it could go to. Luke could even have an all-new one completely built.
My thinking is influenced by my plan to press on to a new trilogy. The Empire wouldn't fall until episode IX and therefore Luke wouldn't have the freedom or the resources to construct any new temples. I think he might look for somewhere out of the way of the Empire's direct attention, with structures already there to be used. I'm thinking that, 20 years after ROTJ (there's a (fairly arbitrary!) 20 year gap between my three trilogies), the Empire may have all but forgotten the destroyed rebel base on the 4th moon of Yavin, leaving it available for another covert purpose. Luke would remember it from his first adventure and it certainly seems to be a place teeming with life.And just another thought. The new Jedi doesn't have to be on Yavin, either. The universe is so huge, there are so many other new and interesting locales it could go to. Luke could even have an all-new one completely built.
I imagine Luke, after ROTJ, scouring the galaxy for Jedi that survived the purge, following up leads and convincing them to join him in creating a new Jedi Order to take on the Sith and their Empire. I imagine him bringing them together in a place beneath the Empire's attentions and quietly, patiently, rekindling the fires of the light side. A further six years, over episodes VII and VIII, and they're ready to face the Sith. I imagine him standing before the Emperor again, not the green young man he was in ROTJ, but a centred, peaceful Jedi Master with the full power of the Force as his ally.
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Originally posted by: twister111
(I also thought of a scene in a dark cave where two of Obiwan's apprentices were fighting in the Vader spacesuits. Anakin would kill Vader offscreen take his name and, declare Anakin to be dead.)
This is a very interesting idea. Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader fighting and then, afterwards, a burnt, dying body is found and no-one knows who it is, including Ben. That would be an excellent cliffhanger to use to make the revelation at the end of ESB as shattering as it was originally! (I also thought of a scene in a dark cave where two of Obiwan's apprentices were fighting in the Vader spacesuits. Anakin would kill Vader offscreen take his name and, declare Anakin to be dead.)