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Unpopular Opinion Thread — Page 18

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SparkySywer said:

That show is downright unwatchable.

You’re no extra-terrestrial being fmalover, I think such huge differences of opinion are quite common in the Star Wars fandom. Think of how loved the prequels are by the current generation, while hated back in their day; or how fans generally think TLJ is either a masterpiece or the worst film ever made.

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

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I’ve been thinking about it and more and more I think that The Force Awakens was designed in part for those who decide to watch the series IV-VI first and then I-III. It’s the only logical reason why there’s back to back stories with another Death Star as it wouldn’t be quite as jarring as it would be if you watch them in sequence order. That and nostalgia but that’s another can of worms.

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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I think you’re giving JJ too much credit in suggesting that the decision was driven by anything but an inability to construct these movies without world-ending threats. If he were in charge of Episode 8, I’m certain we would have gotten Death Stars four movies in a row.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Workprint V4 Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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NeverarGreat said:

I think you’re giving JJ too much credit in suggesting that the decision was driven by anything but an inability to construct these movies without world-ending threats. If he were in charge of Episode 8, I’m certain we would have gotten Death Stars four movies in a row.

Oh, I agree completely actually. I do think that overall the story of The Force Awakens was structured in a way to make it aligned with the Original Trilogy after one watches the Prequels due to the backlash they got at the time.

“This will begin to make things right” is clearly directed at them.

The Sequels aren’t so much Sequels but responses to the criticisms of the Prequels. Ironically it failed miserably as there’s barely anything new and connective to them that makes it feel like a nine part saga. Only really The Last Jedi comes close to bridging the gap in a meaningful way, while misunderstanding important context in other aspects with things such as Rey being a Nobody. The Rise of Skywalker just doesn’t understand context at all and just added things because it fits a meme or whatever it’s trying to say.

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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The Rise of Skywalker just doesn’t understand context at all and just added things because it fits a meme or whatever it’s trying to say.

Oh come now, let’s not be too harsh. Rise of Skywalker is a deeply profound, well thought out sequel. Without it, how else would we have known the earth-shattering truth that they fly now.

They even repeat it three times so you know it’s important.

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The original Saga is i like to think in its own pocket universe it includes, Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi the original cuts only. And it ends on an upbeat ending with our heroes on Endor.

Then you have Universe B which includes the Special Editions and Prequels which are Lucas So called Canon 1-6 Saga of Darth Vader.

Then you have Universe C which is the Disney canon and its the Rey Saga 1-9, or Palpatine Saga.

Lucas sequels would have likely continued Universe B canon and not the OT canon. They would have indeed been a sequel most likely to those movies.

I would have liked a genuine sequel to Return of the Jedi which was an organic extension of the Original trilogy, which to be honest is kind of hard to imagine with all the EU that is out there but i wanted an original story. Not lets cut and paste the EU, make Luke without a wife or son and a prequel Jedi, and Darth Maul and some midichlorians. And rip off the entire arc of the EU with Han as a leader and a General until he gives up his commission, and Leia as President or Chancellor. And mix in Prequel Yoda training Babies but instead insert Luke. Along with Darth Maul being the Prince Xizor controlling the underworld its not original.

The only positive i think is at least Luke was a wise teacher in those treatments and somewhat recognizable, They actually established a new republic and Luke was successful at reviving the Jedi Order. But with the Sith returning with Maul its undoes Lucas own chosen one prophecy of ending the Sith. Feels like a pretty pathetic and desperate attempt at just winging a third trilogy. I’m sure there are people who would have loved a mix and match of EU, with Filoni Star Wars and prequel for the Star Wars sequels i’m not one of them.

Admittedly the Disney trilogy has its own legion of problems. But at least i can watch and enjoy them. The effects are good, the cinematography isn’t janky and the acting and dialog are excellent while the story and characters might suffer from being half baked at least it has the general flavor of a Star Wars film i.e. the OT. I’ll give Episode I at least an honorable mention it had good cinematography when it wasn’t cgi and felt like a Star Wars film. I’ll also give Hayden an honorable mention he was good in episode III and brought genuine pathos to the role of Anakin. Something a much better actor in Adam Driver isn’t able to do with Kylo Ren.

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JadedSkywalker said:

The original Saga is i like to think in its own pocket universe it includes, Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi the original cuts only. And it ends on an upbeat ending with our heroes on Endor.

Then you have Universe B which includes the Special Editions and Prequels which are Lucas So called Canon 1-6 Saga of Darth Vader.

Then you have Universe C which is the Disney canon and its the Rey Saga 1-9, or Palpatine Saga.

I completely agree with this.

As for George’s sequel trilogy treatments, I agree that bringing Darth Maul back as the main antagonist would have been an awful idea (if that’s what George had ended up sticking with). It would have been extremely confusing to the general audience, and so much would have happened outside of the movies that Maul would essentially be a completely different character from who he was in TPM. And while TCW and the EU were able to make Maul into a more interesting character, he’s simply not main villain material for a whole trilogy.

The thing about the EU is that, despite being very much a mixed bag, it offers a huge amount of events, characters, and concepts that could be played around with to tell new stories. It just seems like a waste to me not to take advantage of that massive fount of source material, grabbing the most well received aspects of it and ditching the worst of it, much like Marvel does with its movies. When you look at the EU and the reception of each of its stories, you can get a clearer sense of what works for fans and what doesn’t in the post-RotJ era.

Part of why I tend to be more lenient toward the prequels is because the prequels’ plot was much more constrained based on what needed to take place within just three movies. And there was little to no source material on which to base it (not that George would have used it, of course, but I digress). The sequels, on the other hand, had a more or less blank slate on which to tell any story they wanted, and a plethora of source material to draw inspiration from.

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I was indifferent to Darth Maul coming back at first but as I’ve thought more on it - I like it. I think he could work as the big bad as he’d be the connection to an era lost. He’d also know the history of the Clone Wars to be able to reveal the mystery of Sifo-Dyas and he’d have a natural rivalry with Luke as both were connected to Obi-Wan. He’d also know of the potential of the Skywalker family. In order to move on the galaxy has to move forward from the webs created by Palpatine and his successor who learned from him.

Where was he during the Galactic Civil War? Fair enough. He could’ve been imprisoned under Palpatine or hiding until the right time to bring forth the crime syndicates and gangs. The opportunity opened up with the death of Jabba and the fall of the Empire. A true power vacuum.

I think also as long as it’s Anakin’s grandchildren defeating him then it’s not necessarily a bad thing to sort of alter what happened as it would still be the family who at the end of the day defeated the last link.

Leia becoming Supreme Chancellor makes so much sense. In The Phantom Menace we see Padme give away democracy by voting for no confidence and for it to come full circle to it returning with her daughter as the Supreme Chancellor.

Luke restoring the Jedi Order with or without the 50 to 100 surviving Jedi from Order 66 truly feels like its connecting to threads established.

It’s hard to say what Han’s role would’ve been. All we know for certain is he died in George’s Episode VII too.

All and all I think George’s Sequels feel like a natural progression and like they took in account all of Star Wars instead of just three films as the Disney trilogy tried doing.

I also feel the Prequels don’t get their due respect with cinematography. George made it look so easy but they’re truly beautiful pictures to look at. They’re shot more like documentaries instead of typical cinema. The Sequels - The Force Awakens in particular is jarring how jumpy it is and how much it limits what we see. There’s no breathing room at all and any chance to feel atmosphere is quickly cut. Only Rey’s montage comes close to giving any sense of scale but Jakku feels like miles in the same location and not Tatooine that’s filled with scale. You have the Lars Homestead in one direction and in the other you have the Tusken Raiders Camp that took time to get to. Not just two minutes.

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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Stardust1138 said:

I also feel the Prequels don’t get their due respect with cinematography. George made it look so easy but they’re truly beautiful pictures to look at. They’re shot more like documentaries instead of typical cinema. The Sequels - The Force Awakens in particular is jarring how jumpy it is and how much it limits what we see. There’s no breathing room at all and any chance to feel atmosphere is quickly cut. Only Rey’s montage comes close to giving any sense of scale but Jakku feels like miles in the same location and not Tatooine that’s filled with scale. You have the Lars Homestead in one direction and in the other you have the Tuskin Raiders Camp that took time to get to. Not just two minutes.

Even when taking into account that AotC and RotS were shot on early digital cameras, and despite the clean art nouveau aesthetic which contrasts with the OT’s rough utilitarian aesthetic, all three PT movies still look and feel like Star Wars.

I get no such feeling from any of the Disney era movies. Rogue One in particular, which takes place shortly before the start of the OT, has all the sets and costumes to fit with the timeline, but the worlds don’t feel as lived in as they did in the OT. The ST desperately tried to ape everything about the OT looks-wise, but something doesn’t feel right about them.

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fmalover said:

Even when taking into account that AotC and RotS were shot on early digital cameras, and despite the clean art nouveau aesthetic which contrasts with the OT’s rough utilitarian aesthetic, all three PT movies still look and feel like Star Wars.

I get no such feeling from any of the Disney era movies. Rogue One in particular, which takes place shortly before the start of the OT, has all the sets and costumes to fit with the timeline, but the worlds don’t feel as lived in as they did in the OT. The ST desperately tried to ape everything about the OT looks-wise, but something doesn’t feel right about them.

They do. There used to be a great video on YouTube of all six playing at the same time. It’s a shame Disney took it down as it showed how they truly blended together seamlessly and visually as a collective whole.

They also were shot in the same style. The camera work in the Disney films is different and doesn’t fit the established camera work. The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi deviated the most but not too much as they were still very much in George’s control.

This video with Rick McCallum addresses a taste of it:

https://youtu.be/EjqN-LVJVrs

Rogue One funnily enough is the only one I think that comes the closest to getting close to scale. In particular on Jedha. It’s not perfect but there’s at least a sense of scale and distance between places on the world. The Last Jedi maybe with Canto Bight but not fully.

It’s I think because there’s no signs of progression. Everything is designed to give us feelings of we’re watching the Original Trilogy without the sense of scale or understanding why said location was important. That’s why the Lars Homestead at the end of The Rise of Skywalker feels so hollow. It doesn’t understand the contexts of the central characters it connects to. Anakin didn’t like sand, was a slave, and lost his mother on Tatooine. Luke couldn’t wait to leave after his Aunt and Uncle passed away and promised to never return. He only did to rescue Han. Leia was made a slave to Jabba. Why would any of them want to be connected back to Tatooine in the end? For that matter, if the story began anywhere it’s on Naboo. It only ended on Tatooine because of nostalgia in the contexts given. That’s one of the main problems with the Sequel Trilogy. It plays things beat for beat most of the time without understanding the context of why certain things happened as they did to begin with.

The same could be said for the world building. We’ve seen these planets before - Yavin IV and D’Qar. We’ve seen these designs and aesthetics before like with Unkar’s Thugs and the Tusken Raiders. X-Wings and TIE Fighters. There’s no progression and it feels as though the galaxy never changed in the span of thirty years. It feels like there was a stalemate.

The Prequels also had heart and weren’t designed as exercises of remember this or by a committee. They had a singular vision and this was for better or worse depending on who you ask.

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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For all the hatred Canto Bight gets, it is precisely the one time the ST feels aesthetically like a natural progression from the OT.