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Unpopular Opinion Thread — Page 14

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SparkySywer said:

I don’t really think TFA screwed over TLJ & TRoS that hard. Redoing the Rebels v Empire conflict was a mistake, but they could have brought in the Republic military as late as in Episode 9, and there’s more interesting subtext to the conflict you can read into TFA and TLJ.

They don’t develop on the new concepts of the ST that much, but TLJ picks up the slack enough that I don’t think it’s a problem. At least in TFA’s case.

The Knights of Ren should’ve been cut, because there’s not really anything you could do with them. That’s kind of indefensible, but it’s not that big a deal either.

I don’t really know what else could be a case of TFA screwing over the rest of the ST, though.

Rey’s identity shouldn’t have been a mystery, Poe should’ve died early on as planned (so that Finn could have his role instead of just being a jedi decoy for Rey), and if they were gonna put Luke on an island, then maybe don’t have him standing all elegantly with Jedi robes. I get that they wanted to take artistic license there for the sake of making the ending of TFA feel “hopeful,” but in-universe, it would’ve made more sense to just have him already in rags and maybe just sitting on a rock looking all sad or something. Make it clear right away to the audience that we’re getting a sad hermit Luke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Budu1ux09Rs

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hellscape_navigator said:

I think I agree with Servii’s point that we can’t make all art pieces immune to criticism because “taste is subjective,” but I don’t think there’s been any shortage of critical voices trying to hold creators accountable for making bad art.

I don’t think anyone who thinks art is subjective is trying to make it immune from criticism.

Death of the Author

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SparkySywer said:

I don’t think anyone who thinks art is subjective is trying to make it immune from criticism.

Okay, but I have a feeling some people have argued that episodes 1-3 are not “bad” movies, just “different”, and that others have said, “no, they really are BAD movies and here’s why…”

Isn’t that where this discussion originates? Because some people have the unpopular opinion that the prequels are actually good?

I think the prequels are objectively bad, but that doesn’t mean someone can’t get enjoyment out of them.

“What’s wrong?”

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WookieeWarrior77 said:

LeperMessiah117 said:

Return of the Jedi is not the worst film of the original trilogy.
What is in your opinion?

The otherwise obvious choice, A New Hope. But only barely. I love 'em all, but I think A New Hope is the weak link. I do understand most people’s criticisms of Return of the Jedi, but the perceived flaws of the film are things that do not bother me at all, or at least not anymore. Ewoks, for example, are one aspect I’ve come around on.

A New Hope introduces many of defining characteristics of the franchise, i.e. a rebellion fighting a war against a tyrannical empire, space-wizard samurai, cocky smugglers with questionable morals yet hidden hearts of gold, ruthless bounty hunters and a seedy criminal underworld, space battles against impossibly constructed space stations of mass destruction, crawling around on or in areas of space stations not meant for crawling around in order to evade hostile forces, etc. Most of these aspects are expanded upon and fleshed out in the next two films to dramatic and/or universe-build effect. Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi is where Star Wars fully captured it’s tone and identity and they will always be the 1st 2 things that pop into my mind wherever Star Wars is mentioned. Granted, The tone of RotJ is less consistent than the others, but it still has many classic scenes (many of my favorite scenes series-wide) that have defined Star Wars and influenced many stories going forward, both inside and outside the franchise, to good and bad effect.

Again, it doesn’t really matter that 4 is my least favorite, as I love 'em all. Between 4 and 5, my least and most favorites of the trilogy, there’s really only a 1 point difference on the 10 out 10 scale. I just think 5 and 6 is when Star Wars truly became Star Wars whereas 4 was the blueprint provider.

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rocknroll41 said:

SparkySywer said:

I don’t really think TFA screwed over TLJ & TRoS that hard. Redoing the Rebels v Empire conflict was a mistake, but they could have brought in the Republic military as late as in Episode 9, and there’s more interesting subtext to the conflict you can read into TFA and TLJ.

They don’t develop on the new concepts of the ST that much, but TLJ picks up the slack enough that I don’t think it’s a problem. At least in TFA’s case.

The Knights of Ren should’ve been cut, because there’s not really anything you could do with them. That’s kind of indefensible, but it’s not that big a deal either.

I don’t really know what else could be a case of TFA screwing over the rest of the ST, though.

Rey’s identity shouldn’t have been a mystery, Poe should’ve died early on as planned (so that Finn could have his role instead of just being a jedi decoy for Rey), and if they were gonna put Luke on an island, then maybe don’t have him standing all elegantly with Jedi robes. I get that they wanted to take artistic license there for the sake of making the ending of TFA feel “hopeful,” but in-universe, it would’ve made more sense to just have him already in rags and maybe just sitting on a rock looking all sad or something. Make it clear right away to the audience that we’re getting a sad hermit Luke.

I’ve been meaning to say that last one. I agree completely with it. I think I agree with your other points too. I hadn’t really considered the Finn one in that scenario but I definitely do think he should’ve been given more to do as if anything we could’ve seen him and Poe clash heads about saving the stormtroopers and for them to join forces against a greater threat. The Knights of Ren perhaps? I think that would’ve been very interesting.

I do wonder if TFA would’ve helped bridge things better if it ended with the Falcon leaving D’Qar and we’d have no expectation of what Luke would look like. Our first true look at him would be in the rags and wondering why instead of the jarring shape shifting.

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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I think Star Wars is the best by a hair, Empire is better in a lot of ways just not as fun. Return is the weakest and uneven but still has its moments.

To me all three films, i mean the real versions are one piece. They tell a complete story i find it hard to consider them separately. Although i know Leia was never intended to be the sister, or Vader Luke’s father. The story of the original film when viewed as a standalone thing is very different from what came later. Star Wars itself not the SAGA is a different beast. A simple happy go lucky comic book movie, not some grand Epic.
A movie serial like Buck Rogers or Flash Gordon. Tells a simple story and is self contained.

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JadedSkywalker said:

I think Star Wars is the best by a hair, Empire is better in a lot of ways just not as fun. Return is the weakest and uneven but still has its moments.

To me all three films, i mean the real versions are one piece. They tell a complete story i find it hard to consider them separately. Although i know Leia was never intended to be the sister, or Vader Luke’s father. The story of the original film when viewed as a standalone thing is very different from what came later. Star Wars itself not the SAGA is a different beast. A simple happy go lucky comic book movie, not some grand Epic.
A movie serial like Buck Rogers or Flash Gordon. Tells a simple story and is self contained.

I’m more of a “comic serial” person and not a “grand epic” person so I prefer seeing sw77 separate from the rest, but I understand why most others feel differently and respect that!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Budu1ux09Rs

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JadedSkywalker said:

I think Star Wars is the best by a hair, Empire is better in a lot of ways just not as fun. Return is the weakest and uneven but still has its moments.

To me all three films, i mean the real versions are one piece. They tell a complete story i find it hard to consider them separately. Although i know Leia was never intended to be the sister, or Vader Luke’s father. The story of the original film when viewed as a standalone thing is very different from what came later. Star Wars itself not the SAGA is a different beast. A simple happy go lucky comic book movie, not some grand Epic.
A movie serial like Buck Rogers or Flash Gordon. Tells a simple story and is self contained.

Yeah, I’d say I’m in the same camp. When a trilogy is coming out, you’re regarding each film individually. But once the trilogy is complete and has been out for a while, and the trilogy’s story is really tightly knit like Star Wars is, you start to almost view the trilogy as a single, three-part movie. I do agree, though, that out of all the Star Wars movies, the original is still the one that can most stand on its own. If Star Wars had flopped and we never got another movie, it would still be regarded as a great singular classic film.

But Empire and Jedi together re-contextualize the first film and make it part of something grander and deeper. Empire and Jedi feel much more like a two-parter, and are more dependent on each other while the first film can stand alone. But together, all the films follow a very clear three-act structure, and I grew up knowing them as “the Star Wars trilogy,” so I can’t really divorce them from each other.

The prequels always felt separate from the OT, even when I was a kid, but still closely linked with each other (though TPM doesn’t quite carry its weight as a first act like ANH did). As soon as the PT was complete, it was something you could compartmentalize as a different story from the OT. It was a new three-part movie, not the first half of a six-part mega-movie like George wanted it to be. The same applies to the ST now that it’s finished. Discussion of the individual films slowly gives way to discussion of the films as a unit. Each trilogy has its own three acts, but the trilogies don’t really form a three-act structure together.

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Strip away all the supplementary material, and judging him exclusively on the movies, I must say Boba Fett is amongst the most overrated characters in Star Wars.

The only thing he has going for him is the undeniably cool looking suit of armour. Apart from that he does absolutely nothing noteworthy, and in TESB they only call him “bounty hunter”, just to show how little Lucas thought about him.

I sincerely don’t understand why he’s so popular with fans as he’s pretty much a nothing character.

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fmalover said:

I sincerely don’t understand why he’s so popular with fans as he’s pretty much a nothing character.

I’m not a huge Boba Fett fan either, but I’ve always thought his fans must have liked the mysteriousness of the character and how he was pretty much a blank slate for creating their own adventures in their heads. Star Wars is imagination fuel.

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fmalover said:

The only thing he has going for him is the undeniably cool looking suit of armour. Apart from that he does absolutely nothing noteworthy, and in TESB they only call him “bounty hunter”, just to show how little Lucas thought about him.

This is the most grievous misconception in the Star Wars fandom. People really need to go watch ESB and see how much “”“nothing”“” he does.

His treatment in RotJ is inexcusable, though.

Death of the Author

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fmalover said:

Strip away all the supplementary material, and judging him exclusively on the movies, I must say Boba Fett is amongst the most overrated characters in Star Wars.

The only thing he has going for him is the undeniably cool looking suit of armour. Apart from that he does absolutely nothing noteworthy, and in TESB they only call him “bounty hunter”, just to show how little Lucas thought about him.

I sincerely don’t understand why he’s so popular with fans as he’s pretty much a nothing character.

You should never look at any specific character in isolation (unless there is only one character in the whole film). The interactions and relations to other characters is also important. Carefully leveraging on the established characters is a great tool that enables to build up a character that cannot afford a lot of screen time. In the case of Boba Fett, it is the interaction with Vader that really establishes the character. Pretty much everyone is scared shitless of Vader in ESB, and yet Boba Fett does not seem to be. Furthermore, it seems that Vader even has some reasonable degree of respect for him. This a perfect example of how to maximise the limited screen time by respectfully leveraging on the established characters.

Of course, this tool can also easily be used in a disrespectful manner to crap on the established characters and ruin them (go to ST for a reference).

真実

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Pretty sure George didn’t give a shit about him either, hence how he died on ROTJ. I must say, with as much Boba Fett fanboy-ism going on after Mando, I like his silly death scene more and more - we shouldn’t be thinking too much of the bad guys, focus on the heroes, dammit!

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Omni said:

Pretty sure George didn’t give a shit about him either, hence how he died on ROTJ. I must say, with as much Boba Fett fanboy-ism going on after Mando, I like his silly death scene more and more - we shouldn’t be thinking too much of the bad guys, focus on the heroes, dammit!

I agree. Ever since “I am your father,” Star Wars has had this idea that every villain needs to be super complex, and while I understand the desire to make every villain seem “real,” sometimes a simple mustache-twirler that pushes the conflict and moves the plot along is all you need. Save the breathing room for the heroes!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Budu1ux09Rs

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fmalover said:

Strip away all the supplementary material, and judging him exclusively on the movies, I must say Boba Fett is amongst the most overrated characters in Star Wars.

The only thing he has going for him is the undeniably cool looking suit of armour. Apart from that he does absolutely nothing noteworthy, and in TESB they only call him “bounty hunter”, just to show how little Lucas thought about him.

I sincerely don’t understand why he’s so popular with fans as he’s pretty much a nothing character.

Yeah but the same can be said of Bossk and IG-88. They are cool because they do nothing. In fact in some ways the supplementary material takes away from the mystique too much.

Yub Nub for life

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The key difference between IG-88/Bossk and Boba Fett is that nobody praises them as badasses in the same way they do Boba Fett despite doing nothing.

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It’s Star Wars, people cosplay as Lobot, Gonk droids, and Willrow Hood with an ice cream maker. Of course they’re going to like Boba Fett.

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Omni said:

Pretty sure George didn’t give a shit about him either, hence how he died on ROTJ. I must say, with as much Boba Fett fanboy-ism going on after Mando, I like his silly death scene more and more - we shouldn’t be thinking too much of the bad guys, focus on the heroes, dammit!

Having some cliché grand duel for Boba Fett’s death would be boring and stupid in my opinion. I think they way his death was done in ROTJ was great actually. It is kind of a homage to how some of the famous gunslingers of the old west died (e.g., Wild Bill was shot in the back, etc.). It kinda points to the fact that, in the end, no matter how good and skilled your are, eventually your luck will run out and one bad luck moment and you are gone in this kind of business.

真実

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imperialscum said:

Omni said:

Pretty sure George didn’t give a shit about him either, hence how he died on ROTJ. I must say, with as much Boba Fett fanboy-ism going on after Mando, I like his silly death scene more and more - we shouldn’t be thinking too much of the bad guys, focus on the heroes, dammit!

Having some cliché grand duel for Boba Fett’s death would be boring and stupid in my opinion. I think they way his death was done in ROTJ was great actually. It is kind of a homage to how some of the famous gunslingers of the old west died (e.g., Wild Bill was shot in the back, etc.). It kinda points to the fact that, in the end, no matter how good and skilled your are, eventually your luck will run out and one bad luck moment and your are gone in this kind of business.

That’s a really great prospective and one I hadn’t considered as I have for the longest time thought a duel between Han and Boba on Endor to reach the shield generator would’ve been so cool, and homage to the Sergio Leone westerns too. However you’ve definitely given me something to consider and a great alternative way to see it.

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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fmalover said:

Strip away all the supplementary material, and judging him exclusively on the movies, I must say Boba Fett is amongst the most overrated characters in Star Wars.

The only thing he has going for him is the undeniably cool looking suit of armour. Apart from that he does absolutely nothing noteworthy, and in TESB they only call him “bounty hunter”, just to show how little Lucas thought about him.

I sincerely don’t understand why he’s so popular with fans as he’s pretty much a nothing character.

I agree, completely. I never really gave Boba Fett much thought when I watched the movies when I was a kid. When I discovered Star Wars fan websites around 1997, I was kind of shocked to find out that he had this massive following.

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Bossk is clearly the cooler bounty hunter, since he looks like Godzilla in a space suit. He’s up there with Max Rebo as my favorite alien extra in Star Wars.

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Smiling dude for the win!

"Pleasure’s fun. It’s great, but you can’t keep it going forever; just accept the fact that it’s here and it’s gone, and maybe then again, it will come back, and you’ll get to do it again. Joy lasts forever. Pleasure is purely self-centered. It’s all about your pleasure: it’s about you. It’s a selfish, self-centered emotion, that is created by a self-centered motive of greed. Joy is compassion. Joy is giving yourself to somebody else, or something else. And it’s a kind of thing that is, in its subtlety and lowness, much more powerful than pleasure. You get hung up on pleasure; you’re doomed. If you pursue joy; you will find everlasting happiness.” - George Lucas

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Cthulhunicron said:

fmalover said:

Strip away all the supplementary material, and judging him exclusively on the movies, I must say Boba Fett is amongst the most overrated characters in Star Wars.

The only thing he has going for him is the undeniably cool looking suit of armour. Apart from that he does absolutely nothing noteworthy, and in TESB they only call him “bounty hunter”, just to show how little Lucas thought about him.

I sincerely don’t understand why he’s so popular with fans as he’s pretty much a nothing character.

I agree, completely. I never really gave Boba Fett much thought when I watched the movies when I was a kid. When I discovered Star Wars fan websites around 1997, I was kind of shocked to find out that he had this massive following.

I understand this view, but I feel like it misses some critical things.

One is the marketing. Boba Fett was introduced multiple times to the public as the “cool new character in the upcoming Star Wars sequel!”. He was in a parade with Darth Vader. He was in the best part of the Holiday Special. He was this exciting mail away figure that was SUPPOSED to have a firing rocket pack. He was cool, new, mysterious, and exciting.

Second, he DOES do some cool stuff in ESB. He actually talks back to Darth Vader. Twice! And he gets away with it! All while imperial officers are dropping like flies for the slightest infractions throughout the movie. Plus he sees through Solo’s trick. He looks AWESOME. He even SOUNDS awesome (adding the spur sound effects to his walk was a stroke of genius). He’s this intimidating, mysterious “Clint Eastwood/man with no name” “strong silent type” guy in a cool armor suit who does a super cool job (bounty hunting) and even has to get singled out by the big man himself to be explicitly warned not to disintegrate his target!

Oh, and he has a flipping jet pack!

Of course he resonated with little nerds around the globe and developed a fan base. He was specifically engineered to do exactly that!

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It is a minor complaint as far as complaints go but i hate the pointed tip of Luke’s green lightsaber in the flashback scene in Last Jedi.