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thread to continue the sex/gore in movies/tv dicussion from the Random Thoughts thread — Page 5

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imperialscum said:

Dear Ender,

please do not try to reverse the reality of things now. I wasn't imposing anything on you. I was only defending the freedom of art. I felt you were trying to attack that freedom (and apparently I am not the only one who got that impression from you).

Statements like "I wish movies didn't show it as not only acceptable but even preferable" are just a softer version of "I want it to be banned".

Yours sincerely,
imperialsucm,
the defender of free world.

 Dear Scum,

Please try to reread my posts.  I know that I write at a level that perhaps surpasses your understanding, and that anything more than a few sentences (not comics) is hard to grasp.  However, if you actually read what I write, you wouldn't need to be so insulting.  You have tried to convince me that what you say is right.  According to you, not me, this is imposing one's belief on others.  You want me to share your opinion.  That is what wishing one's opinion were shared means.  According to you, if you ruled the world, you would force me to share your opinion.  Anyone who got the same impression as you clearly has reading difficulties, as I've tried to encapsulated in as few words as possible in my most recent reply to boredom.  If you are still too stupid to understand, then I wish you would go away and not come back.  In this case, if I ruled the world, yes, I would force that wish upon you.

Yours sincerely,
darth_ender
Defender of Good Ol' Fashioned Morals and Opponent of Complete Idiocy/Scum

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boredom3031 said:

darth_ender said:

boredom3031 said:

I'm sure he could catch heaven is for real or noah sometime.

 Are you really so dense?  Don't you wish I shared your opinion that such should be permissible to all who want it (which I believe I have stated I already agree with)?  I believe people should have the choice to make many decisions I find wrong.  I just wish they would choose right anyway.  Is that a difficult concept to grasp?

 

No, I wouldn't lose any sleep over you not liking something that I like. It wouldn't even be a passing thought in my mind in any of my days. I'm sorry. But I just wouldn't care.

 Then why continue arguing with me when we largely agree.  The main thing we disagree on is what you perceive of my opinion.  That is the only reason I continue to reply to you.

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darth_ender said:

boredom3031 said:

darth_ender said:

boredom3031 said:

I'm sure he could catch heaven is for real or noah sometime.

 Are you really so dense?  Don't you wish I shared your opinion that such should be permissible to all who want it (which I believe I have stated I already agree with)?  I believe people should have the choice to make many decisions I find wrong.  I just wish they would choose right anyway.  Is that a difficult concept to grasp?

 

No, I wouldn't lose any sleep over you not liking something that I like. It wouldn't even be a passing thought in my mind in any of my days. I'm sorry. But I just wouldn't care.

 Then why continue arguing with me when we largely agree.  The main thing we disagree on is what you perceive of my opinion.  That is the only reason I continue to reply to you.

 

I don't mind your opinion at all, you should be able to say it, explain it, practice it and so on it's basically the tone of the opinion I dislike.

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imperialscum said:

Post Praetorian said:

 Stare bleakly at the movie marquee for several moments...scratch one's head...stare down at one's portable device in search of upcoming releases...heave a great sigh at the results...then state aloud, to no one in particular, "I do wish there were fewer reboots being proposed!"

Return home. Think no more about it...

That's no method. It is merely specifying ones wish. The very basic question you need to answer here is: how do you want your wish to happen?

 In asking for an alternative method to a pursuit that was previously described as a mere wish how might one expect a deeper response? Is one to be predisposed to expect all wishes to happen?

It seems fair to wish for behavior to better align with one's own preferences without equally hoping, let alone expecting, such a thing to come about... 

I was once…but now I’m not… Further: zyzzogeton

“It wasn’t the flood that destroyed the pantry…”

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darth_ender said:

 I just wish they would choose right anyway.  Is that a difficult concept to grasp?

 really Ender, why do you continue to try to explain such impossibly difficult concepts to us?  You might as well try to explain rocket science or the theory of relativity.  Even Einstein wouldn't be able to unstand this concept of wishing for something, yet not wanting to force that something on everyone.

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boredom3031 said:

darth_ender said:

boredom3031 said:

darth_ender said:

boredom3031 said:

I'm sure he could catch heaven is for real or noah sometime.

 Are you really so dense?  Don't you wish I shared your opinion that such should be permissible to all who want it (which I believe I have stated I already agree with)?  I believe people should have the choice to make many decisions I find wrong.  I just wish they would choose right anyway.  Is that a difficult concept to grasp?

 

No, I wouldn't lose any sleep over you not liking something that I like. It wouldn't even be a passing thought in my mind in any of my days. I'm sorry. But I just wouldn't care.

 Then why continue arguing with me when we largely agree.  The main thing we disagree on is what you perceive of my opinion.  That is the only reason I continue to reply to you.

 

I don't mind your opinion at all, you should be able to say it, explain it, practice it and so on it's basically the tone of the opinion I dislike.

 While I admit I've gotten irritated and said things unlikely, I believe you are referring to my opinion of myself as to watching such movies. If that is what you mean, can you please answer my earlier question, which I repeat now: what is the difference between condescension and pride in one's accomplishments? I am proud that I try to watch only certain movies and that I waited till marriage to have sex. But I ask for citation where I actually was being condescending and not simply proud.

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I've admitted in this very thread that I could be mistaken, but it just seems the overall tone of the post seem very condescending.

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There's not enough sex and/or gore in the thread, still.

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darth_ender said:

You have tried to convince me that what you say is right.  According to you, not me, this is imposing one's belief on others.  You want me to share your opinion.  That is what wishing one's opinion were shared means.  According to you, if you ruled the world, you would force me to share your opinion.

I'm starting to get the impression that imperialscum is projecting his own mentality onto others. Maybe he really would impose his beliefs on others had he the chance.

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I think he just desperately wants everybody to think he is smart, and he is under the false impression that the way to achieve this is by talking down to everyone.  But really he just looks like an asshole, and I don't think anybody here 'admires his intelligence'.

And as far as I'm concerned, Darth_Ender's point is INCREDIBLY easy to grasp.  He thinks X is wrong.  He wishes you wouldn't do X, but he admits that as a free human being you have the right to do all the X you want and he won't stop you, as much as he wishes you would stop yourself.  Therefore he pities you as you are up dancing all night and drowning yourself with too much water.

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imperialscum said:

That's no method. It is merely specifying ones wish. The very basic question you need to answer here is: how do you want your wish to happen?

 So you are saying that we can only wish for things if we know how to make that wish happen? Sometimes I wish I could travel back in time and change what I said or did. According to your logic I should only wish for that if I know how to build a time machine.

Ceci n’est pas une signature.

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I agree that a mere wish is just a goal without means, but nevertheless it is still a goal. Some wishes my be harmless, while others may not. For example, you wish to have an ice cream and you don't have the money. Even if you come to "power" and buy yourself one, it is still harmless (unless you feel sorry for ice cream being eaten). On the other hand, if you wish that something normal/natural would not be shown in films then that is not harmless any more when you come to power. As I said, even if you are consciously not willing to directly impose it, there is a very high probability you will do it subconsciously. Not to mention people change when they come to power, so even if they now say they would not willingly impose, they might as well do so then.

I think a very good indicator whether you are the kind of person that would impose your ideas on others (if you were in power to do so) is the way you handle your kids. When it comes to kids, parents have a great deal of power. So for example (if you have kids and if you are religious), did you impose your religion on them or did you let them free and allow them to decide when they would become old enough to do so?

真実

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Don't you want your kids to see you as a role model and follow your example? Or do you let your kids decide for themselves wether they can drink alcohol or not? Or if they can eat then whole bars of chocolate at once? Yes, there is evidence that drinking alcohol and eating too much chocolate is unhealthy, but when it comes to atheism vs. religion there is no proof that one is better than the other, it is all personal opinion.

Furthermore, I even think banning nudity and violence from the media wouldn't make Ender happy, since people are still wanting these things. In my understanding, he wants people to realize themselves that these things are not appropriate and no ban would lead to this realization.

Ceci n’est pas une signature.

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Frank your Majesty said:

Don't you want your kids to see you as a role model and follow your example? Or do you let your kids decide for themselves wether they can drink alcohol or not? Or if they can eat then whole bars of chocolate at once? Yes, there is evidence that drinking alcohol and eating too much chocolate is unhealthy, but when it comes to atheism vs. religion there is no proof that one is better than the other, it is all personal opinion.

And that is exactly why you should use your power as a parent in the first instance but not in the second instance. As a parent you should to try to guide your kids away from the things that there is a clear evidence of their harm (i.e. drugs, too much alcohol or sugar). On the other hand, imposing subjective things is wrong (i.e. imposing religion, imposing your tastes in art, etc.).

Frank your Majesty said:

Furthermore, I even think banning nudity and violence from the media wouldn't make Ender happy, since people are still wanting these things. In my understanding, he wants people to realize themselves that these things are not appropriate and no ban would lead to this realization.

According to the paradigm I explained in my previous post, such wish is in a sense potentially even more harmful, as achieving it would require brainwashing.

真実

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imperialscum said:

Frank your Majesty said:

Don't you want your kids to see you as a role model and follow your example? Or do you let your kids decide for themselves wether they can drink alcohol or not? Or if they can eat then whole bars of chocolate at once? Yes, there is evidence that drinking alcohol and eating too much chocolate is unhealthy, but when it comes to atheism vs. religion there is no proof that one is better than the other, it is all personal opinion.

And that is exactly why you should use your power as a parent in the first instance but not in the second instance. As a parent you should to try to guide your kids away from the things that there is a clear evidence of their harm (i.e. drugs, too much alcohol or sugar). On the other hand, imposing subjective things is wrong (i.e. imposing religion, imposing your tastes in art, etc.).

If there is no harm in imposing subjective things, why is it wrong? And how could you avoid imposing these subjective things on your children? Would you visit all kinds of churches with your kid and go to all sorts of exhibitions? Would you tell them about all sorts of political ideas? Isn't saying to your kids that all people are equal and should be treated with respect also imposing your views on them? By participating in a certain religion (or not participating at all) you're communicating to your child what you think is the right thing.

Frank your Majesty said:

Furthermore, I even think banning nudity and violence from the media wouldn't make Ender happy, since people are still wanting these things. In my understanding, he wants people to realize themselves that these things are not appropriate and no ban would lead to this realization.

According to the paradigm I explained in my previous post, such wish is in a sense potentially even more harmful, as achieving it would require brainwashing.

I don't think he would be satisfied if he knows that people only share his beliefs through brainwashing.

Wishing for things to be different is not wishing for things to change it's wishing that things in the past played out differently. And there is no way to put such a wish into practice. Also, there is an alternative to brainwashing: simply talking to people and trying to convince them. Which is what he is doing. You are doing it, too, and now I am doing it. That's what a discussion is all about and the ultimate origin of all changes in society.

Ceci n’est pas une signature.

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Frank your Majesty said:

Wishing for things to be different is not wishing for things to change it's wishing that things in the past played out differently. And there is no way to put such a wish into practice.

That is just putting the change at a different point of time scale. It is still wishing for a change.

Unless you wish for something to have happened differently in the past and assuming that it cannot be changed in the present/future then of course it cannot be changed. However this was not the case in the current argument as Ender was clearly talking about present.

Frank your Majesty said:

Also, there is an alternative to brainwashing: simply talking to people and trying to convince them.

Well that is brainwashing. Especially if you do it on kids. Put kids into creationist school and you can be sure they will convince them simply by talking. Of course I am fair enough to admit that from their perspective our normal schools are brainwashing too.

Frank your Majesty said:

Which is what he is doing. You are doing it, too, and now I am doing it. That's what a discussion is all about and the ultimate origin of all changes in society.

Well to me, expressing a wish that people would think his way is not really much of a discussion.

Note: I didn't reply to the first part as I simply disagree.

真実

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boredom3031 said:

I've admitted in this very thread that I could be mistaken, but it just seems the overall tone of the post seem very condescending.

 Well, I apologize to all who felt my tone may have been as such, ask that they try and see it as a matter of pride, and apologize to you specifically for being too snappish in general.

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I think a very good indicator whether you are the kind of person that is arrogant and ignorant is when you think you know best how to raise kids when you have none of your own.  This is not the first time I've thought this, and I'd love to see imperialscum raising his kids without atheist ideas "brainwashed" into them, or any other ideas that he holds dear.

Imperialscum, thanks for telling me what I think and believe, what I want, what motivates me.  Clearly you know better than I.  Clearly all my posts mean what you say they mean and not what I say. Clearly you are the Knower of All.  If there is a God, He must be you.  That said, you have finally convinced me that atheism is the way to go.

I appreciate that others are defending my position.  I have to bow out of the conversation for a bit.  Got too much to do.  Thanks to all.

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imperialscum said:


Note: I didn't reply to the first part as I simply disagree.

 I don't reply to all your points because I simply disagree.

Ceci n’est pas une signature.

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darth_ender said:

boredom3031 said:

I've admitted in this very thread that I could be mistaken, but it just seems the overall tone of the post seem very condescending.

 Well, I apologize to all who felt my tone may have been as such, ask that they try and see it as a matter of pride, and apologize to you specifically for being too snappish in general.

 

Apology accepted, and I offer an apology in return for my own tone and assumption.

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darth_ender said:

Imperialscum, thanks for telling me what I think and believe, what I want, what motivates me.  Clearly you know better than I.  Clearly all my posts mean what you say they mean and not what I say. Clearly you are the Knower of All.  If there is a God, He must be you.

No doubt about that. :p

I realise that this argument was pointless from the start as I wasn't going to achieve anything with it but my own amusement. Anyway if I offended you in any way, I apologise. :)

真実

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Dear imperialscum,

I should never have wasted time conversing with you.  You are an idiot.  I shall now go back to ignoring you.

Yours sincerely
Warbler,
Defender of logic and common sense and not wasting time with idiots.