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the "ultimate edition"

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the ultimate edition splices the good of the SE star wars trilogy with the awesomeness and accuracy of the original trilogy laserdisc cuts.

so, here's a list of scenes that I can think of off the top of my head

SE good

1. SE trilogy Yavin base. the temple looks much better, as it is in the background and is not moving.... keep that part of the SE

SE bad

2. GREEDO SHOOTING FIRST. everyone hates this, but I had to mention it

3. cut the jabba the hut scene that was restored in the first movie

4. no more of the scream when luke falls down

5. restore the original combat movement for the spaceships

6. cut out all moving cgi

7. restore original ending

8. restore original ice monster part.



and on another note

since, dual layer dvd burners are out... and the SE dvds are out... has anyone thought of making this SE edition?
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This has been gone over to death, but taking the best of both version would be good.

Infact, I think someone out there has probably allready done it using laserdiscs and VHS...

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I did it back in 98 with an SVHS deck, a laserdisc player, and the SE and THX laserdiscs.

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Originally posted by: adlai
the ultimate edition splices the good of the SE star wars trilogy with the awesomeness and accuracy of the original trilogy laserdisc cuts.

so, here's a list of scenes that I can think of off the top of my head

SE good

1. SE trilogy Yavin base. the temple looks much better, as it is in the background and is not moving.... keep that part of the SE

SE bad

2. GREEDO SHOOTING FIRST. everyone hates this, but I had to mention it

3. cut the jabba the hut scene that was restored in the first movie

4. no more of the scream when luke falls down

5. restore the original combat movement for the spaceships

6. cut out all moving cgi

7. restore original ending

8. restore original ice monster part.



and on another note

since, dual layer dvd burners are out... and the SE dvds are out... has anyone thought of making this SE edition?



I like 5,6,7,8 and would like those left in my definitive editions.
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^ That just goes to show how this could never easily work. We all have different views on what the "good changes" are. Myself, for instance, would scrap just about everything but the removal of matt lines. So in the end, I'd wind up keeping nothing for the SE.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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I wouldn't even remove the matte lines.
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Why not? The matte lines in RotJ are very blantant and distracting, even in the 97 SE.

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Because then you're not using original material.
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Lucas opened a big can of worms when he made the Special Editions. The day he started fussing around with them is the day that it became impossible for there to be a "definitive" version of the film for any of the fans. The problem is, as in the Matrix, choice. As soon as fandom was given a choice, regardless of whether Lucas intended for us to have a choice, consensus became impossible. This next set of special "Special Editions" merely confuses matters further. The more permutations of any given scene or change there are, the more division there will be amongst the fan base.

Still, it's interesting to hear what individual fans would keep, remove, or the changes they would make if they were Lucas. My personal take on the changes is this: I have no problem with cosmetic changes. New effects to replace those that didn't quite come off. Updating things that have aged poorly. I draw the line at changes which interfere with what the movie was originally, or interefere with the pacing. Greedo shoots first, wampa, screaming at bespin, Vader's new taking off in the shuttle and landing on the star destoryer sequence. And of course, changes which just suck: Jedi Rocks sequence, Sarlacc has a beak and squeals like a pig, Stupid construction robot smacking probe droid in mos eisley, bizarre no purpose fly through of cloud city.

I personally will be picking up the DVDs when they hit later this month, if only to make my own, personal, definitive editions for my own enjoyment.

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The removal of Matte Lines does not mean you aren't using the original material.

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I honestly never noticed the matte lines until someone (GL) pointed them out...now they are distracting as hell!
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Originally posted by: Pagz
The removal of Matte Lines does not mean you aren't using the original material.
Yes it does. Original material uses the original prints that were compiled only. They used interpolation to remove the matte lines - that's adding information to the image. Same thing with a lot of the "clean up". It isn't really that greatly cleaned up, in fact it still looks pretty shocking. But take out a wall that looks blurred, duplicate it digitally (or create a new one) and superimpose it/digitally matte it in and everyone thinks the print has been incredibly restored. I'll give you an example. Let's say that there's a big black permanent splodge in the middle of a single frame on the negative.

Using today's technology you could take part of the next frame, and the previous frame, and use them together to replace the missing section in the damaged frame. But you aren't using original material; you've just created for yourself a "fixed" frame.
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In that case, its not entirely a bad thing. After all,the black smudge causes a loss in information any way. I saw a documentry on how they restored Sleeping Beauty. They practically recomposited whole scenes to clean up the image through clone techniques. Its an interesting process. When I said I'd remove the matts, I pretty much ment I would leave no actual change, only keeping the "restored" footage. New Yavin: gone; new Mos Eisley: gone; new Bespin: gone; new Jabba: gone: Coruscant: most definitely gone. None of the changes hold any marit with me. I'd even pull the Biggs scene, as the absence of the Anchorhead footage makes the scene pointless. You have the end of a subplot that was never set up. Like I tend to tell people, I'm about as anti-SE as they come.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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I'd have no content changed, except for maybe a few minor shots that actually improved, if only slightly.

Things like the darker sky when we first see the Sandcrawler. But no content or context is changed really.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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I was under the impression that for the special editions they went back to the original elements, restored them and recomposited them using the new digital technology. In which case, they were using the original material, they were just compositing it better. I'm just going from what all the making off featurettes said about the restoration process.

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I don't think the lack of anchorhead scene makes the Biggs scene pointless. I think not having the Biggs scene at all makes his Death scene pointless. It's hard enough for the audience to remember that Luke Mentioned Biggs at the dinner table when his only scenes in the film are during the dogfight. I felt the Biggs scene finally added weight and depth to what had always struck me as a "huh?" scene. Biggs dies, like every other rebel pilot died, but for some reason, we're suppose to believe that specific death affected Luke? He gets a mounrful musical cue? Made no sense. As a hard core star wars fan, of course, I knew the history between the characters. Back when I was a kid, watching the movie on our old, enormous VHS deck, Biggs was just some guy, and his death held no more meaning than the scores of others that had preceeded it. I've seen parts of the Anchorhead sequence, I understand why it was cut, it's not terribly good. The Biggs scene on Yavin is good, and gives us all the background we need to drive home to the audience that A) this is Luke's best friend from back home, and B)His death during the battle could potentially make Luke lose it emotionally, and therefore carries a lot more signifigance than random rebel pilot death.

That's just my take on it

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Yeah, I get what you're saying. I guess since I read the book, I knew who he was and didn't really need the scene. My problem was that Luke barely mentions him at the start of the film("That's what you said when Biggs and Tank left."). So I imagined that most people would forget that line.Now suddenly there's this guy being all buddy buddy with Luke, and we're grasping for straws trying to figure out who he is. The scene is still the best addition in 97, being as it's the only thing that added any real value to the film. Did Lucas every give any explanation to it being cut?


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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honestly, after much thought, as long as the original Han-Greedo scene were restored, and the more obvious cgi elements like the "blaring lips" singer were erased, I'd be happy.
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I say put the 1995 video releases cleaned up on DVD. Though it was billed as the final release of the original versions on video, I think the change in format should be taken into account. Not just that, but put an end to the fan wars that are currently under way. By the time III comes out, if nothing has been announced or done about the original versions on DVD, I fear for the worst...

But back on topic, get rid of Greedo shooting first.
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hmm, I just found this

http://www.davisdvd.com/misc/ep6.htm

out of curiousity, which LD version are the TR-47's sourced from? because they don't look much better than my VHS copy, aside from the widescreen, and from that page, the 1995 VHS and LD's were the last of the theatrical releases to be remastered. So, did he use 1993 or 1995 laserdiscs? that would make all the difference.
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Originally posted by: Klingon_Jedi
Yeah, I get what you're saying. I guess since I read the book, I knew who he was and didn't really need the scene. My problem was that Luke barely mentions him at the start of the film("That's what you said when Biggs and Tank left."). So I imagined that most people would forget that line.Now suddenly there's this guy being all buddy buddy with Luke, and we're grasping for straws trying to figure out who he is. The scene is still the best addition in 97, being as it's the only thing that added any real value to the film. Did Lucas every give any explanation to it being cut?


Pacing issues. I agree it is a great change but the wampa change is my favorite.
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Yeah, I get what you're saying. I guess since I read the book, I knew who he was and didn't really need the scene. My problem was that Luke barely mentions him at the start of the film("That's what you said when Biggs and Tank left."). So I imagined that most people would forget that line.Now suddenly there's this guy being all buddy buddy with Luke, and we're grasping for straws trying to figure out who he is. The scene is still the best addition in 97, being as it's the only thing that added any real value to the film. Did Lucas every give any explanation to it being cut?


In the commentary on the 2004 New Hope , Lucas says he cut out all the early footage of Luke in Anchorhead with his friends, because he never really liked it and he wanted to focus on telling the story through the droids eyes and not Luke's, although I do like the inclusion of the Biggs Yavin scene if only for the fact that it ties in with the novel and radio-drama, and it does lend weight to luke's reaction when he dies.
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Pretty much all the early Luke stuff was added after a pre-screening to some friends of Lucas, who complained that there was nothing but robots for the first 20 minutes of the film.
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Originally posted by: adlai

out of curiousity, which LD version are the TR-47's sourced from? because they don't look much better than my VHS copy, aside from the widescreen, and from that page, the 1995 VHS and LD's were the last of the theatrical releases to be remastered. So, did he use 1993 or 1995 laserdiscs? that would make all the difference.


Actually the 93 and 95 editions of the LD used the same transfers. So, I would assume that it really doesn't matter which LD set was used. However, since the 95 set was THX it might be slightly better than the 93 set. I have a copy of the TR-47 set and it is really spectacular. My set was mastered from the 93 Definitive Collection LD.

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