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The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released) — Page 513

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sherlockpotter said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

omnimuffin said:

Hal 9000 said:

Just sent the auralnauts a cordial message asking if they’d be at all interested.

It seems like if we did redub 3PO, it would open the question of how Kylo knew to go to Endor. Although, honestly… it’s hard to care too much about it anyway. The film doesn’t answer this other than allowing one to guess Kylo also had it translated. It does, however, establish then and there that Kylo “know[s] where she’s going” at least. That would be missing from this cut. It seems like the cost for reinstating it here would be to also reinstate the premature reveal that Chewie is alive.

Another issue is that 3PO translating the inscription doesn’t give the characters any solid information. In the theatrical, it provided important information and the heroes had to have both that knowledge and the blade itself. In this proposed plot revision, they would essentially only learn that they… need to get the blade back. All they’d learn is that Rey needs to tap into darkness somehow. Feels a little muddy.

It does seem like this muddies the movie more than it cleans it up. Personally, I’d just accept the doofy Goonies-style treasure clues as a cheesy but essential element of the movie and leave that portion relatively intact, because much of the movie is structured around them.

No kidding. Nobody says “well now we have to get the dagger back” after 3PO’s message plays (in fact, they seem more happy about the message than anything since Babu celebrates). Furthermore, Finn even questions why Rey is heading off to explore the ship by saying “Chewie is this way.” Never at one point do the characters say “go look for the dagger.” It’s always “We’re coming, Chewie” and “go save your friend”.

It’s honestly quite mind-boggling how much this movie relies on the dagger giving an exact answer.

Does Babu give a frak that the Wayfinder is on Endor? I thought he just cheers because his hack worked.

And all you’d need to do is swap in some new Poe dialogue. From:

Rey: We need the dagger.
Poe: Why?
Rey: A feeling.

To:

Rey: We need the dagger.
Poe: You know where?
Rey: A feeling.

Like I’ve said, I just don’t see how the dagger translation not explicitly telling them what to do is more contrived than an ancient Sith Artifact listing the exact coordinates of the 30-year-old Death Star.

Except Poe’s line is said on screen. So it’s highly unlikely that would end up looking right.

I just think it’s a whole lot of trouble and removal of stuff for absolutely nothing of value in return. Clearly I’m not bothered as much by all the intricacies of the dagger. In the context of the film itself, it’s only referred to as Ochi’s dagger, so it’s not ancient necessarily for the average viewer. And even if it is ancient, I’m willing to head cannon an easy answer as for why that is on there, such as that he wanted to engrave something cool onto it in Sith.

All I know is that I’ll definitely have to create v1.5 of Ascendant if this ends up going through in the end. Will probably have plenty of audio pops, but ah well. Worth it to avoid the murkiness of all this (and don’t get me started on why again! lol)

Tragedy of Vader - A Novelization of The Rise of Skywalker

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At this point I’d say it’s less likely to go through than not.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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I do think how the whispers are in the current version already helps get that idea across, that Rey is sort of flirting with the dark side, even if it isn’t explicit.

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 (Edited)

Jar Jar Bricks said:

sherlockpotter said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

omnimuffin said:

Hal 9000 said:

Just sent the auralnauts a cordial message asking if they’d be at all interested.

It seems like if we did redub 3PO, it would open the question of how Kylo knew to go to Endor. Although, honestly… it’s hard to care too much about it anyway. The film doesn’t answer this other than allowing one to guess Kylo also had it translated. It does, however, establish then and there that Kylo “know[s] where she’s going” at least. That would be missing from this cut. It seems like the cost for reinstating it here would be to also reinstate the premature reveal that Chewie is alive.

Another issue is that 3PO translating the inscription doesn’t give the characters any solid information. In the theatrical, it provided important information and the heroes had to have both that knowledge and the blade itself. In this proposed plot revision, they would essentially only learn that they… need to get the blade back. All they’d learn is that Rey needs to tap into darkness somehow. Feels a little muddy.

It does seem like this muddies the movie more than it cleans it up. Personally, I’d just accept the doofy Goonies-style treasure clues as a cheesy but essential element of the movie and leave that portion relatively intact, because much of the movie is structured around them.

No kidding. Nobody says “well now we have to get the dagger back” after 3PO’s message plays (in fact, they seem more happy about the message than anything since Babu celebrates). Furthermore, Finn even questions why Rey is heading off to explore the ship by saying “Chewie is this way.” Never at one point do the characters say “go look for the dagger.” It’s always “We’re coming, Chewie” and “go save your friend”.

It’s honestly quite mind-boggling how much this movie relies on the dagger giving an exact answer.

Does Babu give a frak that the Wayfinder is on Endor? I thought he just cheers because his hack worked.

And all you’d need to do is swap in some new Poe dialogue. From:

Rey: We need the dagger.
Poe: Why?
Rey: A feeling.

To:

Rey: We need the dagger.
Poe: You know where?
Rey: A feeling.

Like I’ve said, I just don’t see how the dagger translation not explicitly telling them what to do is more contrived than an ancient Sith Artifact listing the exact coordinates of the 30-year-old Death Star.

I just think it’s a whole lot of trouble and removal of stuff for absolutely nothing of value in return. Clearly I’m not bothered as much by all the intricacies of the dagger.

I’m willing to head cannon an easy answer as for why that is on there.

I mean, I wouldn’t call character building, thematic subtext, or lore clarifications “absolutely nothing of value in return”; so different strokes, I suppose. We’d lose…not having 3PO hand them the answer on a silver platter? Truly ruinous.

The thing is, a lot of people are bothered by the many, many contrivances of the Dagger, even if you’re not. I mean, if you have to delve into head canon to make sense of the plot at its most basic level, I’d say that’s a pretty serious failing of the film. I’ll understand if the dagger change can’t work, of course; but I’m still interesting in trying.

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 (Edited)

So how is the dagger thing currently intended to be portrayed in V2? I know this has been discussed to death but I get easily lost amidst the comments and different points of view 😄

As far as I understand, the idea is redub C-3PO’s translation so he doesn’t name-drop Endor, thus making it necessary for the protagonists to retrieve the dagger aboard the Steadfast. Then the dagger guides Rey on Endor through the dark side, as implied in V1. Am I right?

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Reposting RogueLeader’s original comment from way back when, for context’s sake. Some of this has already been implemented in V1 (e.g. removing mention of 3PO’s memory backups), and some of it isn’t wholly relevant to this current discussion, so I’ve bolded the parts that are:

RogueLeader said:

Here are some of the ideas I had written down.

Some thoughts on the Kijimi sequence: Kijimi in Revolt, 3PO’s Irreversible Sacrifice, and Poe’s Past.

  • Add details to Kijimi to establish that it is revolting.
  • Add graffiti to one of the walls of the Kijimi streets. Rebel symbol, crossed-out stormtrooper helmet, or Luke posing like the original Star Wars poster, with lightsaber overhead.
  • While they’re sneaking around, add civilian protest shouts in the distance, maybe something like, “For Skywalker!” Maybe then we could hear blaster shots or an explosion.
  • When Zori says, “I’m still digging myself out of the whole you put me in when you left to join the Resistance”, cut “-to join the Resistance”, or “-when you left to join the Resistance”. This gives us more ambiguity so people can interpret the situation in different ways. 1) The canon explanation, where Poe left to join the New Republic, which he was a part of before he joined the Resistance. 2) Maybe Poe only worked as a spice runner undercover as a Republic operative, and messed up their operations during his mission.
  • Or, have Zori say, “I’m still digging myself out of the whole you put me in when I left the Resistance”, which would help explain why Zori knows the “more of us” phrase that Lando uses later, implying it is some kind of Rebel phrase, and why she flies a Y-Wing at the battle of Exegol. It would also nicely parallel Finn bringing in ex-stormtroopers into the fight. Doesn’t explain why Poe used to be a spice runner, but those references could potentially be cut.
  • When Rey whips out her lightsaber, add offscreen dialogue of Zori’s awestruck crew saying, “Jedi!”, or “The Jedi!” Maybe Zori and her crew just thought she was a “scavenger” at first. But when they realize she’s a Jedi, Zori becomes more willing to work with them. It gives more of a reason as to why she thinks Rey is “okay”, and why she goes from pointing a gun at Poe’s head, to helping him, in 30 seconds flat.
  • If C3PO’s memory is permanently deleted, cut Finn asking if R2 backs up 3PO’s memory, and 3PO’s response, but replace 3PO’s line, “Artoo’s storage unit is notoriously unreliable” with a different line so we can keep the shot of Rey contemplating. Maybe we can push C3PO’s line, “There must be some other way” to that shot, and completely cut the shot where Finn asks about R2 backing up his memory.
  • Cut 3PO saying, “I just had an idea of something else-“ before Babu turns him off. It kind of takes away a little bit from 3PO making this sacrifice. So maybe 3PO could say something like, “Tell R2 I-“ or “I have a bad feeling about-“
  • Cut Poe’s line’s about no one coming at the Battle of Crait, and everyone giving up. Maybe he could just say, “I can’t turn my back on this war. Not till it’s over. Maybe it is. Everyone’s so afraid(?). They’ve given up(?).” This might take some work to get the shots and music to still flow appropriately. I’m thinking cut everything after “Maybe it is” and put that line over the shot of Zori say, “No, I don’t believe you believe that”, but either cut “No” or change her line to just “You don’t believe that.”

Making the Dagger an Ancient Artifact

  • In order to make the dagger distinctly ancient, redub Red-Eyed 3PO to give a new translation of the dagger. Instead of giving the exact coordinates, the new translation instructs the wielder to hold the dagger and embrace the darkness it holds. If they accept this “test”, the dagger will show them the way.
  • Cut Finn saying, “The Endor system? Isn’t that where the last war ended?” This will be pushed to later. They don’t have time to react to the translation, because the First Order shows up.
  • After Rey senses the dagger on the ship, cut Poe asking why they need it, and Rey saying, “A feeling.” The new translation makes it clear that they need the dagger to find the Wayfinder.
  • When Rey picks up the dagger and stares at it, she begins hearing whispers/screams and eventually sees a quick glimpse of the Death Star ruins. Kylo Ren interrupts her right after this moment. (This would tie in well to the whispers guiding her to vault on the Death Star, as Ascendant currently has it.)
  • At the beginning of the scene with Rey and Finn fixing the Falcon, add a part of Finn’s earlier line, “The Endor system? Where the last war ended?” (Either sentence, both likely won’t fit). Rey continues “All that matters is finding the Wayfinder. Finding Exegol.” Adding the line here helps clarify that Rey told them about her vision of the Death Star after they regrouped, and now they are heading there.
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Hmm, that’d be an awkward two lines to clip, too. But you’re right.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Is anyone taking on RL’s ideas? I think they’re pretty awesome.

I remember someone offering to design the graffiti art but did this happen? I could try to camera-track a wall and add it to a scene or two.

I’m assuming Alex would be the one talent to add the additional voices etc?

Check out - http://www.youtube.com/moviesremastered

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Movies Remastered said:

Is anyone taking on RL’s ideas? I think they’re pretty awesome.

I remember someone offering to design the graffiti art but did this happen? I could try to camera-track a wall and add it to a scene or two.

I’m assuming Alex would be the one talent to add the additional voices etc?

When they were first talked about, I offered to do the audio if the visuals are done, so yeah I’ll definitely add voices if this happens! I just only know how to do audio, so I can’t really help with any of the designs or edits.

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Movies Remastered said:

Is anyone taking on RL’s ideas? I think they’re pretty awesome.

I remember someone offering to design the graffiti art but did this happen? I could try to camera-track a wall and add it to a scene or two.

I’m assuming Alex would be the one talent to add the additional voices etc?

I’m unsure if someone’s already offered but I’d be happy to lend my hand at some graffiti designs. I’d like to finally be able to contribute something to this project beyond a few edit suggestions.

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Yes, Jordan! If we could just get some art, I think either myself or someone else can do the work putting it on a wall.

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oviniboy said:

axlanian said:

Portuguese:

Quem é você?
Parece que sou um espião experto da Resistência
E para que você está… O que?

In (Brazilian) Portuguese would be like that:

“Quem é você?”
“Parece que eu sou um espião altamente treinado da Resistência”
“Então por que você está… O que?”

Which of these renderings would be most appropriate to be added to the existing Portuguese subtitles? I’ll paste a spattering from them below to give an idea. Pardon my ignorance, but would this be similar to an American reading subtitles in British English? That is, comprehensible although maybe a little funny here and there?

Example clip from existing subs:

Finn, estamos prestes
a ser cozidos!

  • BB-8 não está em chamas.
  • O que restou dele não.

Não aguento mais os gritos.
Economizei o suficiente para sair.

Temos amigos por aí.
Eles vão vir se souberem que há esperança.

  • Ele não pode nos vencer todas as vezes.
  • Parece que pode.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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If oviniboy is Brazilian, definitely take whatever they say over me, I haven’t lived in Brazil for 10 years now so I’m a bit rusty. I wasn’t sure if literally saying “highly trained” would feel stilted, but if they think it works, go for theirs.

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RogueLeader said:

Yes, Jordan! If we could just get some art, I think either myself or someone else can do the work putting it on a wall.

I originally said I’d do some art, but I’m unlikely to have time due to my job right now. So if someone else wants to take the reigns on it instead, that’s cool.

“It’s like rhymetry. They poem.” - Leorge Gucas

The Rise of Skywalker Expanded Edition by Rae Carson: The Faraday Edit, Revenge of the Sith: The Faraday Nudge, ROTS Ultracut: Order 66, The Light Rises, Faraday Junior’s Star Wars

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Hal 9000 said:
Which of these renderings would be most appropriate to be added to the existing Portuguese subtitles? I’ll paste a spattering from them below to give an idea. Pardon my ignorance, but would this be similar to an American reading subtitles in British English? That is, comprehensible although maybe a little funny here and there?

i think axlanian’s version is also right, kind in the spot of funny but comprehensible, but there were some tricky phrases that look more like error than intentionally written that way (no offense axlanian, you did great).

Also, the examples were all right, alternating a bit between colloquial and formal, but no big deal.

the dark side of the force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural

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[quote] Add the kid Anakin kills to the Jedi voice sequence (he’s recording lines) [/quote]

I was off for some time.
And I’m like “whaaat?!”, did you guys actually find this actor and ask to do the lines? 😮

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RogueLeader said:

Yes, Jordan! If we could just get some art, I think either myself or someone else can do the work putting it on a wall.

Okay ace I’ll get on it. I have a few ideas of my own but I’ll also have a go at the ones suggested already and we’ll see how it goes. Is there a scene/scenes on Kijimi in particular where the graffiti is going? Just so I can an idea of what it needs to look like on screen?

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The graffiti I think would be when they’re talking to Zorii and/or sneaking off to Babu’s, on the walls behind them.

That’s a cool idea, DarthMeme! We could also have things like anti-First Order propaganda (severed stormtrooper heads, or the FO logo with an “X” through it?), or maybe messages like “Skywalker lives!” or something.

I dunno, I’m just spitballing.

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The graffiti messages should be in Aurebesh, right?

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Wasn’t there some graffiti described in the duel of the fates draft?

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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axlanian said:

The graffiti messages should be in Aurebesh, right?

Yeah. Maybe the hypothetical “Skywalker Lives” text could come accompanied of the jacked Luke from the original SW poster to drive the point home.

The Rebel crest could also be thrown in (to allude to the Resistance already having allies across the galaxy), and we could draw inspiration from the official Star Wars propaganda artbook.