Sign In

The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released) — Page 448

Author
Time
 (Edited)

sherlockpotter said:

Oh god, haha, yeah. So Rey learns about Endor when she picks up the Dagger again while on Kylo’s ship. Whoops, sorry everyone if I added to the confusion!

Also, to build on Jar Jar’s point, I had an idea super late last night that we could maybe color Rey’s eyes yellow right before she gets the vision, to help visually distinguish between “holding” the Dagger and “giving in” to the Dark Side and unlocking its secrets.

And Hal, my initial pitch was to cut down on the idea that 3PO can “translate” the Dagger, but he can’t say that translation. I was thinking just emphasize that he would just tell them, “Well, I know it’s Sith, but I can’t read it.”

Original line removal: https://streamable.com/snti9d
Bonus Rey line removal: https://streamable.com/g624m1

I think that’s what we’re talking about, in part? I feel like we’re having four different conversations about the dagger, and they all overlap slightly.

Yeah, that direction would work for me either of those two. Even though I spoke my dislike of her like about the bad thing about the dagger (doing bad things when she is wielding the Youngling Slayer 9000) it does give a moment for the scene to breath and her comment get’s everyone’s attention to look at it and see there is writing on it.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

Author
Time

NeverarGreat said:

Among the multitude of issues I have with this movie, the dagger is surprisingly not among them, so I’m just going to make some popcorn and sit this one out.

+1

I actually like the dagger as is.

George Lucas was the first Star Wars fan-editor.

My homeworld is Australia so be wary of timezones!

Author
Time

Do you two mean you like V1 of this project or the theatrical presentation of the dagger?

I think if we do go with the 3PO redub and related changes it could make sense to remove Rey’s line about “horrible things”.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

“Is the dark side stronger?”
“No! no, no… quicker, easier, more seductive."

With what the movie does, the changes that have been done so far, and things being proposed this is what I’m thinking:

As Jarbear said, we’ve been seeing Rey being drawn to the dark side in TLJ, and you could argue even in TFA. She’s been using it as a shortcut to achieve her goals. Now cut to TRoS, where we finally see her trying to slow down and train as a Jedi, but it’s not working, she calls to the Jedi but no one answers, during the training course we see that her Jedi fighting technques are failing her, we see her get more and more angry, lose control, and take that shortcut again to finally hit the ball. Her use of the dark side here ends up triggering a vision (unlike the theatrical where everything, even Rey getting mad, is implied to be a by-product of her connection to Kylo). So here we see first hand that there is darkness inside her, and we have a vision of her turning dark.

Now on Pasaana, she finds a Sith dagger, and as soon as she picks it up, it calls to her through whispers in her head, she gets a worried look (we cut the mom scream and the line “horrible things have happened with this”). The lightsaber once called to her, and we took it as a sign she was destined to become a Jedi, but we now see the opposite. The lightsaber is now silent and broken because of her choices in TLJ, perhaps she broke her chance to become a Jedi, maybe now her destiny is to become a Sith, just like we saw in the vision.

Then on Kijimi the inscription in the dagger is translated, and it is revealed that the dagger calls out to those with great darkness within them or something like that, something that cements that the reason she heard those whispers is that the dagger sensed her inner darkness. Then she hears those whispers once more on Kylo’s ship, and she ends up following them. When she finds the dagger she again looks worriedly as it starts whispering to her again, only now she understands what that means (so you could even keep her saying “no” as in “no, I’m not evil, stop talking to me”). Then, if that idea pans out, she would have a vision here. You could sprinkle some more evil Rey foreshadowing in it as it’s very relevant.

“If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will”

So now by the time we get to Endor, everything is setup in it’s place for the edit that’s already in V1. Now it’s clear that following those whispers means Rey is descending deeper and deeper into the dark side, culminating in her meeting her “true self” inside the Wayfinder room. Now Kylo’s words ring far more true to the audience: “Look at yourself. You wanted to prove to my mother that you were a Jedi… but you’ve proven something else.”

Rey chooses to literally “follow” the dark path, which consumes her to the point she ends up stabbing Kylo with no hesitation. It truly feels like she can’t escape her destiny of becoming a Sith, so she exiles herself on Ach-to. But now in this version Luke not only gives her a pep-talk, he gives her a new, fully functioning lightsaber, a new chance to fully embrace the Jedi. So now on Exegol the struggle is clear, recover the light or embrace the dark, and notice how she doesn’t use the new saber until she finally chooses to firmly stand against the dark as a Jedi. It’s almost like this is how it was always meant to be.

Author
Time

Hal 9000 said:

Do you two mean you like V1 of this project or the theatrical presentation of the dagger?

Super unpopular take but- I never had much of an issue with the Goonies compass moment, despite all the awkward questions it raises.

Regardless, I look forward to seeing whatever new twist V2 can produce.

George Lucas was the first Star Wars fan-editor.

My homeworld is Australia so be wary of timezones!

Author
Time

Burbin said:

“Is the dark side stronger?”
“No! no, no… quicker, easier, more seductive."

With what the movie does, the changes that have been done so far, and things being proposed this is what I’m thinking:

As Jarbear said, we’ve been seeing Rey being drawn to the dark side in TLJ, and you could argue even in TFA. She’s been using it as a shortcut to achieve her goals. Now cut to TRoS, where we finally see her trying to slow down and train as a Jedi, but it’s not working, she calls to the Jedi but no one answers, during the training course we see that her Jedi fighting technques are failing her, we see her get more and more angry, lose control, and take that shortcut again to finally hit the ball. Her use of the dark side here ends up triggering a vision (unlike the theatrical where everything, even Rey getting mad, is implied to be a by-product of her connection to Kylo). So here we see first hand that there is darkness inside her, and we have a vision of her turning dark.

Now on Pasaana, she finds a Sith dagger, and as soon as she picks it up, it calls to her through whispers in her head, she gets a worried look (we cut the mom scream and the line “horrible things have happened with this”). The lightsaber once called to her, and we took it as a sign she was destined to become a Jedi, but we now see the opposite. The lightsaber is now silent and broken because of her choices in TLJ, perhaps she broke her chance to become a Jedi, maybe now her destiny is to become a Sith, just like we saw in the vision.

Then on Kijimi the inscription in the dagger is translated, and it is revealed that the dagger calls out to those with great darkness within them or something like that, something that cements that the reason she heard those whispers is that the dagger sensed her inner darkness. Then she hears those whispers once more on Kylo’s ship, and she ends up following them. When she finds the dagger she again looks worriedly as it starts whispering to her again, only now she understands what that means (so you could even keep her saying “no” as in “no, I’m not evil, stop talking to me”). Then, if that idea pans out, she would have a vision here. You could sprinkle some more evil Rey foreshadowing in it as it’s very relevant.

“If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will”

So now by the time we get to Endor, everything is setup in it’s place for the edit that’s already in V1. Now it’s clear that following those whispers means Rey is descending deeper and deeper into the dark side, culminating in her meeting her “true self” inside the Wayfinder room. Now Kylo’s words ring far more true to the audience: “Look at yourself. You wanted to prove to my mother that you were a Jedi… but you’ve proven something else.”

Rey chooses to literally “follow” the dark path, which consumes her to the point she ends up stabbing Kylo with no hesitation. It truly feels like she can’t escape her destiny of becoming a Sith, so she exiles herself on Ach-to. But now in this version Luke not only gives her a pep-talk, he gives her a new, fully functioning lightsaber, a new chance to fully embrace the Jedi. So now on Exegol the struggle is clear, recover the light or embrace the dark, and notice how she doesn’t use the new saber until she finally chooses to firmly stand against the dark as a Jedi. It’s almost like this is how it was always meant to be.

YES. No follow up comments needed except … YES.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

Author
Time
 (Edited)

I appreciate your breakdown of it, Burbin. Although the dagger change was initially because I didn’t like the logic of how the dagger worked, I think the replacement is worth the effort, because it actually contributes to challenging Rey’s character in a way that it didn’t before. It is actually relevant to Rey’s main conflict, where the original wasn’t.

I think there was some confusion as to when Rey would first see a vision, or hear whispers, of the Wayfinder’s location, but that wouldn’t be until she at least picks it up on Ren’s Star Destroyer. But like I said, the main benefit isn’t really simplifying plot conveniences, it is showing Rey confronting the darkness within her.

But, I didn’t make this suggestion for Ascendant, originally, so if people don’t like it it doesn’t have to be included. I can try to work out the kinks and then a decision can be made about it.

Author
Time

The dagger is now part of struggle using the dark. I like it.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Burbin said:

If the edit can somehow properly, clearly convey it like this… then we have a winner here. Wow.

Save the Sebastian Shaw Ghost! Save the dream…!

Author
Time

Who was it that did the sample eye test for Rey? I think having her Sith eyes during the hiss would be a complement to everything described there. I’d also be interested to see it applied to her vision.

Exsqueeze me.

Author
Time

Hal 9000 said:

Do you two mean you like V1 of this project or the theatrical presentation of the dagger?

I think if we do go with the 3PO redub and related changes it could make sense to remove Rey’s line about “horrible things”.

I just don’t have an issue with the Goonies style McGuffin quality of the dagger leading to a super specific location. Sure it’s silly, but what isn’t silly in the ST? I just like maps and following clues and whatnot in movies. I don’t really know what was changed in V1 since I haven’t seen this movie in any form for a year.

As for the current ideas of making the dagger more meaningful to Rey’s Dark Side plot, I’m all for it even if it means the removal of the protractor bit since characterization and theme is better than McGuffins. The Dark Side turn for Rey is actually something my TFA edit leans into heavily, so this version of TROS would actually play rather nice with it.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite The Starlight Project (Workprint V2 Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

Author
Time

As a couple of extra points:

But now in this version Luke not only gives her a pep-talk, he gives her a new, fully functioning lightsaber, a new chance to fully embrace the Jedi. So now on Exegol the struggle is clear, recover the light or embrace the dark, and notice how she doesn’t use the new saber until she finally chooses to firmly stand against the dark as a Jedi. It’s almost like this is how it was always meant to be.

I just remembered it was decided to remove Luke’s line: “you will take both sabers to Exegol [because your pal Ben’s gonna need one]”. So now it could be interpreted as Luke giving Leia’s lightsaber to Rey as a replacement for the old, broken one. Rey doesn’t feel worthy of wielding this new saber, so she decides to take both sabers to Exegol, but continues using the old one. It isn’t until she fully rejects the dark that she finally reaches for and proudly wields Leia’s saber, and now the fact there’s an extra saber for Ben is just a nice bit of poetic luck.

Also if we carry this idea of focusing on the whispers throughout the film, it could give a new context to the implementation of Duel of the Fates, as now it could be seen as if the evil whispers have turned into a full blown choir as Rey has allowed herself to be consumed by her darkness until now… until now she has become the very thing she swore to destroy.

Author
Time

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Who was it that did the sample eye test for Rey? I think having her Sith eyes during the hiss would be a complement to everything described there. I’d also be interested to see it applied to her vision.

It was from Sade! (Had to check! 😛) I could see using a shot (zoomed in maybe if using 4K source?) with the yellow eyes for the “destroyer vision

However, in the “death star … Dark Rey moment?” Her eyes only turn Sith at the hiss part. So it’s not a 1:1 use of any footage and really hits home!

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Nice, everyone. Burbin’s take is something I could imagine reading online after TROS(:A) was released in theaters and find interesting.

And it all seems doable, at least until I have to put the pedal to the metal.

I apologize that I won’t be able to for a little while as I have a lot to try to push through in the next few weeks. But I’ll try to keep tabs and orchestrate best I can until I can do what I need to in the NLE. (In many ways I have the easy job.)

So, it seems the idea is to do the following, and for it to all be coherent:

  • Remove Rey’s two lines when picking up the dagger in two scenes that tie into her parents as well as their screams, replaced with Sith whispers

  • 3PO says he can’t translate the inscription, but doesn’t explicitly mention he knows “exactly where the Wayfinder is.”

  • Redub 3PO reciting the inscription, saying something like “only this blade tells the weirder where to find the Macguffin if they press into the eêëēęvil.”

  • Finn doesn’t mention Endor since 3PO didn’t actually reveal the location.

  • When Rey picks up the dagger again and seems transfixed in Kylo’s emo room, she gets two quick flashes of Endor and/or the DSII

  • As the company heads to Endor, add Finn’s line implying Rey knows and told them their destination. She arrives and follows the dagger. (The line “only this blade tells” she says to herself here might be a tiny bit awakened now, though. Can’t remember the shot but it may be easily removed if it needs to be.”

  • Unrelated logically to the other ideas here, maybe have a touch of Sith eyes on evil Rey.

Am I up to speed?

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

Author
Time

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Who was it that did the sample eye test for Rey? I think having her Sith eyes during the hiss would be a complement to everything described there. I’d also be interested to see it applied to her vision.

I did a quick test last night. I didn’t bother with tracking it or anything, so it’s just a picture, and I will happily hand the reigns to someone with more experience color grading; but this is a rough idea of what I was thinking.

https://i.imgur.com/WAH1poF.png

Author
Time
 (Edited)

I was mostly referring to when she is on the Sith throne in that vision at the beginning of the movie.

I suppose that could work as well, but I know that you only get Sith eyes if you’re really tapped into the dark side. I’m unsure what she could be so angry about in that specific moment.

Of course, we could make up a new rule about Sith eyes - that they show up when you’re wielding a Sith artifact.

Exsqueeze me.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

jarbear said:

sherlockpotter said:

Oh god, haha, yeah. So Rey learns about Endor when she picks up the Dagger again while on Kylo’s ship. Whoops, sorry everyone if I added to the confusion!

Also, to build on Jar Jar’s point, I had an idea super late last night that we could maybe color Rey’s eyes yellow right before she gets the vision, to help visually distinguish between “holding” the Dagger and “giving in” to the Dark Side and unlocking its secrets.

And Hal, my initial pitch was to cut down on the idea that 3PO can “translate” the Dagger, but he can’t say that translation. I was thinking just emphasize that he would just tell them, “Well, I know it’s Sith, but I can’t read it.”

Original line removal: https://streamable.com/snti9d
Bonus Rey line removal: https://streamable.com/g624m1

I think that’s what we’re talking about, in part? I feel like we’re having four different conversations about the dagger, and they all overlap slightly.

Yeah, that direction would work for me either of those two. Even though I spoke my dislike of her like about the bad thing about the dagger (doing bad things when she is wielding the Youngling Slayer 9000) it does give a moment for the scene to breath and her comment get’s everyone’s attention to look at it and see there is writing on it.

Gotcha covered, buddy. I’ve done a bit more tinkering, and this time I moved Poe’s line “What’s that?” from when they discover the speeder, to when they find the Dagger. That way we don’t have to worry about everyone fixating on the bones, while Rey goes off and gets the knife with BB-8.

Regardless of whether people like the line with the dagger, I kind of like removing it from the speeder scene. It all feels less congested now, I think.

So! I’ve mocked up three versions of removing 3PO’s two lines" “The location of the Wayfinder is inscribed on this dagger!” And “I know exactly where the Wayfinder is. Tee hee, tee hee.”

And Jar Jar, my thinking was that her eyes would turn because she’s had to really access the Dark Side in order to activate the Dagger. Does she have to be angry for it to work? (I mean…I hope not.)

Author
Time
 (Edited)

To Hal: yep that’s the gist.

For the eyes, my thoughts for now, but can change, is the yellow eyes are involving visions. So when she sees herself it’s in full on Sith Mode.

Also the Rey “clone” scene the eyes are just yellow at the hiss.

For now, with this method, it’s not overdone for the time being and it’s more like what she’s afraid of becoming. We know that sith = yellow eyes so her visions are her as Sith Rey. Just as we see Palps restored and he is “back” to being full on Sith.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

Author
Time

sherlockpotter said:

RogueLeader said:

sherlock, could you see about moving Finn’s line about Endor to the part where Finn and Rey are working on the Falcon? If anything, maybe we could hear the beginning of Finn’s like while the camera is still in the cockpit with Poe and Chewie, like we’re doing a J-cut. The whole line doesn’t have to be used. Just whatever fits and still makes sense.

I am honored to have been chosen for this task! lol I didn’t spend too long on mixing, but here’s a rough test:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/184g4AqJx73cGdEvEOuSMQo7mc1vIJczA/view?usp=sharing

A few thoughts I had while working on this:

  • The timing is very tight. Ideally, I’d want to let the scene breathe more; but I think that the added benefit of reworking the dagger concept would probably be worth that price.
  • There’s not really enough room in Poe’s scene to begin the dialogue there.
  • There’s a slight bit of music still when he says “The Endor System?” Hopefully it just sounds like some equipment humming away?
  • It occurred to me that this would be a good opportunity for Finn to sort of call her out a little for using the dagger, to emphasize the “light” side of her inner conflict. The angel on her shoulder, as it were. Plus, it feels like it flows naturally into Rey’s “Shut up, boy. We have work to do.” response. (I never noticed how out of place her response feels in the original cut. Because it does feel like she’s responding to a line that’s not there. Thank you for ruining yet another scene in this movie for me.)
  • Ideally, I wanted Finn to say something like “Endor? How do you know?” But neither of Finn’s "How do you know…"s felt like they fit tonally. So I tried popping in a line from earlier in the film - “Are you sure?” How do you feel about that?

Also, this may also be taking the idea too far, but what if, right before submitting to the Dagger and seeing Endor, Rey’s eyes change color to help illustrate that she’s going to the Dark? https://i.imgur.com/WAH1poF.png

That may be stupid. It’s way too late at night for me to be working on this.

Okay, here’s where I’m at, conceptually:

I wanted to try extending the Rey/Finn moment, to give us more time to play with. By doing so, I thought we could also highlight even more how far away from her friends Rey is getting right now.

And then, I started thinking, wouldn’t it make more sense for that scene to swap places with Poe’s scene in the cockpit? For the following reasons:

  • It means that Rey’s contemplation (and thus, the audience’s) happens almost immediately after all of that drama that just went down on Kylo’s ship, (admittedly interrupted by the dumb Hux scene)
  • The “landing gear busted” scene now serves as the segue into the “Endor Landing” scene, where it’s actually relevant. So rather than going “Rey drama -> Landing gear -> Rey reflection -> Landing”, it would go “Rey drama -> Rey reflecting -> Landing gear -> Landing”. (Seriously, who edited this thing?)
  • Poe says that “They’re not following us,” but not a lot of time has passed yet, so maybe they’re still just catching up?
  • There’s this awkward beat in the original cut, where the editing implies that Rey and Finn are trying to fix the broken landing gear. But that’s stupid, because:

A) If the landing gear is “busted,” how will fiddling with some random wiring inside the ship fix the exterior landing gear?
B) Finn and Rey give up after a few seconds anyway without fixing the landing gear, so apparently they don’t care if they crash.
C) Assuming the problem is internal, how would the First Order have damaged the landing gear from inside the ship when they were firing on it? Like…what? Or, did they walk in after capturing the Falcon on Pasaana, and deliberately sabotage the landing gear?? (“Bwa ha ha, now that we’ve captured this antiquated ship, if any Resistance operatives secure a Magic Password Medallion and sneak on board our cruiser to steal it back, they’ll have to crash land after they’ve already escaped us! That’ll show them! Ha ha ha!”) F*CK. ME. WHO WROTE THIS???

Like I said: stupid; I don’t think we lose anything by implying that Rey and Finn are just doing some random repair on a ship that was already considered “a load of junk” thirty years ago.

V1: https://drive.google.com/file/d/184g4AqJx73cGdEvEOuSMQo7mc1vIJczA/view?usp=sharing
V2: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WyXHZZhkVrbW1iEaZi9tS9lGe1nPnLuw/view?usp=sharing

And seriously, if any of our VFX wizards want to add a shot of the First Order shooting the belly of the Falcon as it peels away, followed by some sparks to show the landing gear breaking, that would be amazing.

God, every time I look closely at a scene in this movie, it all falls apart even more. That said, the order of these two scenes is hardly a hill I’m willing to die on.

Author
Time

Sherlock, are you working in mono or stereo? Just curious if those Finn lines you moved are separate from the other tracks where you pulled it from. I’m assuming it was, but the music just kind of bleeds into the track with the dialogue sometimes. I do think the lines need to be cleaned up a little.

I don’t necessarily have a preference between the versions. I do see what you mean by Poe’s line about the landing gear leading right into the scene of the ship crashing. I do like the way you’re showing Rey kind of distracted. Though I think it would be better to have it to where she only hears the whispers when she is holding the blade.

(I also appreciate the Inigo Montoya reference! Haha)

Author
Time
 (Edited)

On the TRoS Redux Ideas thread I suggested an idea to have Palpatine be speaking in the Sith language entirely all the way until he says, “The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be… unnatural,” (that line is in English/Basic), to preserve his reveal even more and make it more surprising when he is first SHOWN to us.

Subtitles will be there, obviously.

Also have him speak in the Sith language when he is giving his entire ritual speech.

Thoughts?

Author
Time

TestingOutTheTest said:

On the TRoS Redux Ideas thread I suggested an idea to have Palpatine be speaking in the Sith language entirely all the way until he says, “The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be… unnatural,” (that line is in English/Basic), to preserve his reveal even more and make it more surprising when he is first SHOWN to us.

Subtitles will be there, obviously.

Also have him speak in the Sith language when he is giving his entire ritual speech.

Thoughts?

There’s no reason this wouldn’t work, but it would be a lot of work to preserve a surprise everyone already knows. I’m not actually opposed to that - I think that’s the right attitude to have, that improving the current piece of media takes precedence over meta-knowledge of its surroundings. I’m not sure this would fit with the goals of Ascendant, but in another fanedit, I’d enjoy seeing that put together.

“It’s like rhymetry. They poem.” - Leorge Gucas

Author
Time
 (Edited)

CaptainFaraday said:

TestingOutTheTest said:

On the TRoS Redux Ideas thread I suggested an idea to have Palpatine be speaking in the Sith language entirely all the way until he says, “The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be… unnatural,” (that line is in English/Basic), to preserve his reveal even more and make it more surprising when he is first SHOWN to us.

Subtitles will be there, obviously.

Also have him speak in the Sith language when he is giving his entire ritual speech.

Thoughts?

There’s no reason this wouldn’t work, but it would be a lot of work to preserve a surprise everyone already knows. I’m not actually opposed to that - I think that’s the right attitude to have, that improving the current piece of media takes precedence over meta-knowledge of its surroundings. I’m not sure this would fit with the goals of Ascendant, but in another fanedit, I’d enjoy seeing that put together.

I mean, every once in a while we guys propose a new idea here and Hal decides to take some of them in because of the potential or how far it is into editing.

Author
Time

Absolutely, and I don’t think it hurts to float it here as a concept.

Allow me to rephrase, cos I didn’t phrase myself well: even if Hal doesn’t personally want to use it in Ascendant, it’s something I think would be interesting in another edit, and I’d personally watch it.

“It’s like rhymetry. They poem.” - Leorge Gucas

Author
Time

RogueLeader said:

Sherlock, are you working in mono or stereo? Just curious if those Finn lines you moved are separate from the other tracks where you pulled it from. I’m assuming it was, but the music just kind of bleeds into the track with the dialogue sometimes. I do think the lines need to be cleaned up a little.

I don’t necessarily have a preference between the versions. I do see what you mean by Poe’s line about the landing gear leading right into the scene of the ship crashing. I do like the way you’re showing Rey kind of distracted. Though I think it would be better to have it to where she only hears the whispers when she is holding the blade.

(I also appreciate the Inigo Montoya reference! Haha)

I pulled the Finn lines from the center channel, so the only other things left to do would be to try applying some noise reduction to them, and/or masking the music with some other audio.

Yeah, I wasn’t sure if we were going for a physical connection kind of thing, or just the Dark Side calling out to her - a siren call, as it were. (Maybe we could go with the middle ground, and cut to an insert shot of either the Dagger, or else of her Endor vision?) I’m definitely open to other suggestions for padding out the scene; personally though, I’m still worried that V1 is too rushed.