“From the southern shore of the Endor system, embrace the darkness within and the path becomes clear. Only this blade tells.”
The Skywalker Saga:
I · II · III · IV · V · VI · VII · VIII · IX
This is the way.
My one suggestion DZ is to mention “moon”. So, “From the southern shore of the moon of the Endor system”. Endor is the gas giant. The other moon is covered in ice, so obviously it wouldn’t have shores.
Would it make sense to be more vague and allow our characters to figure out that it is Endor?
“From the southern shore of the forest moon, embrace the darkness within and the path becomes clear. Only this blade tells.”
The Skywalker Saga:
I · II · III · IV · V · VI · VII · VIII · IX
This is the way.
My only concern is that there a probably plenty of forest moons in their galaxy. Sanctuary moon would work better.
However the crew works on the ancient dagger concept, I dunno what direction the translation will go. I dunno if having any of the text give them a clue is necessary, especially if they include a vision when she touches the dagger on the star destroyer scene it gives us some glimpses of the Death Star ruins and the throne. (It would help for it to not feel like screen grabing scenes if maybe some of those shots are taken from the 4K source and zoomed in on spots so it is not a 1:1 screen grabs? Not necessary, but just thought of it)
If there isn’t any actual clues to the translation, just telling the crew the dagger will guide the Heir/dark side/etc. etc. would it be good or bad to have that vision Rogue mentioned to have a it say endor at the end in a very sith like way? Not saying one way or the other, but would that help? It’s kinda hard to match audio clips using your own audio to then match the sith whisper clips … so it may stick out… Hmmm.
Sorry I’m rambling since im excited to see if this idea could work.
“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”
If there isn’t any actual clues to the translation, just telling the crew the dagger will guide the Heir/dark side/etc. etc. would it be good or bad to have that vision Rogue mentioned to have a it say endor at the end in a very sith like way? Not saying one way or the other, but would that help? It’s kinda hard to match audio clips using your own audio to then match the sith whisper clips … so it may stick out… Hmmm.
I feel like this would make the detour to Kijimi and 3PO’s sacrifice kinda pointless. Let’s just say that the dagger only guides her when she actually reaches the destination.
Or if the Sith Cultists like Ochi were that obsessed with Palps…
“Only the place where the Sith died does the path to rebirth become clear. Embrace the darkness within, only this blade tells.”
The Skywalker Saga:
I · II · III · IV · V · VI · VII · VIII · IX
This is the way.
True, that’s a good point. I am curious what route the translation will go with this idea. I dunno if it would be “too on the nose” that the dagger gives actual tangible location regarding its, kinda guiding/prophecy.
If there wasn’t to be such a ‘written’ location of sorts to keep it broad, it could be something like “When these words are read, the heir/disciple/etc. -insert text - -text about guiding/etc. - only this blades tells.”
Something on the lines that when the words are read, since it is a sith language, then the dagger is “activated to the heir/chosen one/whatever” since it is in sith language, not just a random person can pick it up and it will do stuff.
Meh, I am not good at writing, so I apologize to those reading my stuff. Lol.
EDIT; One of the keys to the new translation has to really imply that the dagger will guide the “chosen” one. SO even with Orchi, who had possession of the dagger and logically could read it, it doesn’t guide him to anything. It wouldn’t “talk to him” in anyway. So something that points out it works only with the “chosen one” is good to have. So it’s not about it leading to the wayfinder specifically, just guides her towards the throne, which in this case, the Wayfinder is needed to navigate to Exegol.
“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”
Something on the lines that when the words are read, since it is a sith language, then the dagger is “activated to the heir/chosen one/whatever” since it is in sith language, not just a random person can pick it up and it will do stuff.
“Heir of the Sith, embrace the darkness within. The path to rebirth begins where our Emperor died. Only to you will this blade tell.”
The Skywalker Saga:
I · II · III · IV · V · VI · VII · VIII · IX
This is the way.
I’d be hesitant to have any specific “chosen one” element, since we’ll also want it to work in the Rey Nobody version. Also, RogueLeader, correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the intention to do away with the whole “On the southern shores” bit, and just have the location revealed to Rey alone? In which case, the only possible place to include the vision would be when she picks up the Dagger on Kylo’s ship, because after that they’ll have to already know to go to Endor. Maybe there’s a line from her first lesson in TLJ that could be used as she’s approaching the Dagger? Something like, “Feel the Darkness…”
Also, regarding the vision, perhaps we could work in some shot from Return of the Jedi, to help break things up? Like, “This is Palps putting the Wayfinder on the Death Star” kind of thing, and this is what it looks like now [quick shot of current Endor wreckage]. Maybe even a shot of the planet/moon itself?
For dialogue, maybe the transcription on the Dagger could say something like, “The Wayfinder will be revealed only to those who embrace the power of the Darkness.” I don’t think it has to be super long or flashy - it’s carved on a knife, after all.
EDIT:
One of the keys to the new translation has to really imply that the dagger will guide the “chosen” one. SO even with Orchi, who had possession of the dagger and logically could read it, it doesn’t guide him to anything. It wouldn’t “talk to him” in anyway. So something that points out it works only with the “chosen one” is good to have. So it’s not about it leading to the wayfinder specifically, just guides her towards the throne, which in this case, the Wayfinder is needed to navigate to Exegol.
Why can’t it just be used as a guide for anyone who follows the ways of the Sith? Like, Ochi could have been on Exegol at some point. He could have been guided there by the Dagger. Why have it only work for Sith Royalty? I don’t follow.
Hell, maybe all of those Sith Cultists and ship crew got there by following similar Sith artifacts; but Luke wasn’t able to track any of them down because, as TLJ shows, he would never truly embrace the Dark Side.
The Rise of Skywalker: Untold - A “Rey Nobody” edit of Ep. IX | Looking for voices and VFX - Please reach out if interested!
Fine point about any “chosen one” wording or whatnot in considering a Rey Nobody version. I mean, however to imply to both versions would be good. However, there should be SOMETHING special about the dagger working for Rey, or even Kylo, in regards to taking the Sith throne specifically, in which a person like Orchi isn’t able to become. (But regardless, make it work)
I would be hesitant to use any footage from ROTJ since it would visually stick out due to the resolution and whatnot from the original film. Just personal view it may stick out a bit too much.
“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”
Good point about the old film quality. I don’t know - I haven’t seen any of the modern releases in years. Maybe it’s been restored enough to match at this point?
I don’t think the goal of the Wayfinders though was that only Sith Lords could use them. Kylo plugs an aux cord into his, and it shows a little Garmin map with directions where to go, no Force required. So, like, I don’t think Exegol is intended to be an entire planet that’s exclusive to Sith Bloodlines. I think we should keep it simple: Dagger shows Rey to go to Endor, not because she’s a Chosen One, just because she’s willing to embrace the Dark Side.
EDIT: How about: “The path to Exegol will be revealed to those who embrace the Darkness”? Sounds kind of vague and cryptic.
The Rise of Skywalker: Untold - A “Rey Nobody” edit of Ep. IX | Looking for voices and VFX - Please reach out if interested!
I’m sure getting the highest quality source (maybe even the DNR version of 4K83) and adding some sort of filter over it and a recolour (all to match TROS) could pass enough to fit in for a split second shot. If we really wanted to show a before and after with ROTJ. I like the idea of it.
Save the Sebastian Shaw Ghost! Save the dream…!
Even upscaled shots on Topaz does indeed add good quality, but I don’t think it would be enough to really “fit” into the film. Not saying using such an idea is bad, it just may stick out. Unless maybe it is upscaled and the entire “vision” scene has a filter to help hide stuff, but that path too would stick out since all the previous “visions” do not have a filter or distorted look to them.
One could play with it, always up for trying, just not sure it would fit in. I guess a quick shot could in theory work, but how quick and how well it will work? Not sure!
As for the saying, being vague is good. Especially connecting it to the vision Rey has helps fill in the dots.
“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”
I still think something like this would be best option for Mustafar / Vader’s castle shot, I must just gonna give it a shot when I get the time.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/501825149469851659/795325996211372073/20210103_172116.jpg
Filmic Crossroads, Daniel L. Isidore
All the conversation about the dagger is good to see! Forgive me if I skimmed over something, but like Sherlock said, the inscription will be more like instructions for how to use the dagger to find the Wayfinder, rather than telling Rey exactly where it is. It was designed by the Sith to find the Wayfinder regardless of where it is. So the inscription can’t talk about Endor, the southern shore, or the Emperor. It predates the Emperor by a lot.
Faraday is working on something that I think works well and sounds cool.
I really love that image of Mustafar, Cinefy. It feels spooky and matches the environment we see in the movie. Something like that would be cool to see in motion.
I’ve removed Rey’s line. Personally I’m not bothered by this one so much either way (I guess I’ve finally found my breaking point for “stupid, but not movie-breakingly stupid”), but I present this so that others can weigh in:
Removing Rey’s line actually gives a bigger focus to the whispers, perhaps they could be amped up, In fact… maybe the whole concept of Rey hearing her mum’s scream when near the dagger could be axed from the two scenes it appears in, in favor of focusing on her hearing sith whispers instead.
The second time we hear the ‘scream’ is in Kylo’s quarters, where she looks worriedly at the dagger. We could cut before she says “no” and replace the screams of lil’ Rey and momma Rey with more, perhaps louder whispers. This would offer a better setup for the change on the Death Star II and the “only this blade tells”, if we focus on the dagger constantly reaching out and talking to Rey. The idea of the dark side reaching out to Rey, culminating in her following that voice in the DSII would be a really nice way to convey her descent to the dark, and it would be a better/smarter parallel to TFA instead of a lame repeat of hearing someone screaming “no!”.
I’m not a fan of trimming 3PO though, how would he know the dagger is the clue Luke was looking for if he doesn’t know what it says?
He recognized the language as “the runic language of the Sith”; so, on a quest to find a Sith artifact, he would probably infer that a dagger covered in Sith-iness is relevant. Sith Wayfinder…Sith Runes…slap a blue paw print on that sucker, and you’ve got yourself a clue.
I don’t know, to me it seems like unnecessary obfuscation of something that’s perfectly fine and clear originally, without gaining much from changing it. Imagine going to Kijimi and erasing 3PO’s memory only for the translation to be some unrelated thing like “This is Ochi’s dagger, do not steal. Long live the Sith”.
_
“It’s the clue that Master Luke was looking for!”
“How do you know that? Hey 3PO, I said how do you know that? How do you know that’s the clue Luke was looking for if you can’t translate it? Did you read the script? Hey what’s that in the sand next to those bones? Is that the script?”
I’ve removed Rey’s line. Personally I’m not bothered by this one so much either way (I guess I’ve finally found my breaking point for “stupid, but not movie-breakingly stupid”), but I present this so that others can weigh in:
Removing Rey’s line actually gives a bigger focus to the whispers, perhaps they could be amped up, In fact… maybe the whole concept of Rey hearing her mum’s scream when near the dagger could be axed from the two scenes it appears in, in favor of focusing on her hearing sith whispers instead.
The second time we hear the ‘scream’ is in Kylo’s quarters, where she looks worriedly at the dagger. We could cut before she says “no” and replace the screams of lil’ Rey and momma Rey with more, perhaps louder whispers. This would offer a better setup for the change on the Death Star II and the “only this blade tells”, if we focus on the dagger constantly reaching out and talking to Rey. The idea of the dark side reaching out to Rey, culminating in her following that voice in the DSII would be a really nice way to convey her descent to the dark, and it would be a better/smarter parallel to TFA instead of a lame repeat of hearing someone screaming “no!”.
I’m not a fan of trimming 3PO though, how would he know the dagger is the clue Luke was looking for if he doesn’t know what it says?
He recognized the language as “the runic language of the Sith”; so, on a quest to find a Sith artifact, he would probably infer that a dagger covered in Sith-iness is relevant. Sith Wayfinder…Sith Runes…slap a blue paw print on that sucker, and you’ve got yourself a clue.
I don’t know, to me it seems like unnecessary obfuscation of something that’s perfectly fine and clear originally, without gaining much from changing it. Imagine going to Kijimi and erasing 3PO’s memory only for the translation to be some unrelated thing like “This is Ochi’s dagger, do not steal. Long live the Sith”.
This is my concern as well. The translation has to reveal something that simply holding it on its own wouldn’t be able to convey. Otherwise Kijimi and 3P0’s sacrifice feel like a detour that shouldn’t have been taken. If Rey felt that the dagger itself was trying to show her something to begin with, then the plan should have been to steal it back from the First Order.
Personally, I like things the way we have them in v1. It only starts whispering to her when she is in close proximity (relatively speaking) to the wayfinder.
Going with the idea that the dagger doesn’t explicitly say the Wayfinder’s location, you would have to cut two lines already:
So I think it works better that 3PO knows exactly what it says, and knows it’s the clue to find the Wayfinder that Luke was looking for. But, they’re instructions, not a precise location, so 3PO can’t just punch it into the navcomputer himself.
EDIT: And I see your point Jar Jar. To be fair, Rey doesn’t really hold it long enough to know how it works, so I don’t think the whole journey is undermined by the change.
Of course I have been obsessing over the dagger and the changes to make it ancient. One problem I thought of is, why is Orchi carrying it? If the purpose of the dagger is to lead a person to the way finder … why does he need it? He’s from Exegol. He knows where it is. So why carry it?
So a thought I had was, again, to make this an ancient Sith/dark side thing is to make the dagger’s purpose is for such ones to "find their desire. (Dark side purpose).
Here is the thought. Orchi has the dagger to find Rey’s parents to kill them. For him, although it is an Order from Palps, his desire is to exact revenge on Palpy’s Clone son who “left them, aka the Sith Culture” …which is his personal desire to to kill him for that. Basically, kill him because he is a traitor. So the dagger helped Orchi to find her parents, aka the father who “betrayed” the Sith. (heck, didn’t he even smile before he stabbed them?)
So for Rey, her desire is to find the Wayfinder to lead her to Exegol. She’s already battling the Dark Side and is in ways following it. The movie has already established that’s what she is looking for. So the inscription of the Dagger could be something like:
“The Blade shall speak to the one who walks the dark path to lead them to their desire. Only this blade tells.”
Not that exact wording, but something on those lines. So it 1.) Orchi has a good reason to have it and 2.) Rey will be lead to the Wayfinder, her desire, and having more whispers and visions sells that … the dark side/dagger is showing her the way.
“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”
Yes, but what I’m saying is that there was talk of giving Rey a vision of its location. That is a big no-no imo, since it would mean that Rey could have found its location without 3P0’s instructions.
That is an interesting idea jarbear. It makes the dagger less of a way finder for the Wayfinder, and more of an independent tool. Though it might raise questions of why he didn’t use it to find Rey before leaving Jakku.
EDIT: Maybe she could hear whispers of “Endor” and “Death Star” rather than literally seeing it. And Rey didn’t know how to use it when she first picked it up, but I can see the fear of that not being explicit.
I’ve removed Rey’s line. Personally I’m not bothered by this one so much either way (I guess I’ve finally found my breaking point for “stupid, but not movie-breakingly stupid”), but I present this so that others can weigh in:
Removing Rey’s line actually gives a bigger focus to the whispers, perhaps they could be amped up, In fact… maybe the whole concept of Rey hearing her mum’s scream when near the dagger could be axed from the two scenes it appears in, in favor of focusing on her hearing sith whispers instead.
The second time we hear the ‘scream’ is in Kylo’s quarters, where she looks worriedly at the dagger. We could cut before she says “no” and replace the screams of lil’ Rey and momma Rey with more, perhaps louder whispers. This would offer a better setup for the change on the Death Star II and the “only this blade tells”, if we focus on the dagger constantly reaching out and talking to Rey. The idea of the dark side reaching out to Rey, culminating in her following that voice in the DSII would be a really nice way to convey her descent to the dark, and it would be a better/smarter parallel to TFA instead of a lame repeat of hearing someone screaming “no!”.
I’m not a fan of trimming 3PO though, how would he know the dagger is the clue Luke was looking for if he doesn’t know what it says?
He recognized the language as “the runic language of the Sith”; so, on a quest to find a Sith artifact, he would probably infer that a dagger covered in Sith-iness is relevant. Sith Wayfinder…Sith Runes…slap a blue paw print on that sucker, and you’ve got yourself a clue.
I don’t know, to me it seems like unnecessary obfuscation of something that’s perfectly fine and clear originally, without gaining much from changing it. Imagine going to Kijimi and erasing 3PO’s memory only for the translation to be some unrelated thing like “This is Ochi’s dagger, do not steal. Long live the Sith”.
_“It’s the clue that Master Luke was looking for!”
“How do you know that? Hey 3PO, I said how do you know that? How do you know that’s the clue Luke was looking for if you can’t translate it? Did you read the script? Hey what’s that in the sand next to those bones? Is that the script?”
Damn it, my weakness! RLM references! 😉 lol.
Well, here’s the tricky thing actually, with the new angle we’re taking with the Dagger, it doesn’t really say the “Location of the Wayfinder” anyway. Personally, I still think Sith Runes are enough of a giveaway to accept that the Dagger is important - I think that it makes better storytelling sense than “I’m programmed to translate it, sir; but I’ll never tell you what it means! Tee hee hee!”
Like, in National Treasure (the closest example I can think of to this scavenger hunt), we assume that the Declaration is important, when we don’t yet know the specifics of what’s on the map. We just know that it’s somewhat related to the end goal, and there are some strange codes on the back, so it’s the best lead we have. No one complains, “Ah, but maybe Ben Franklin just wrote his grocery list on the back in a mysterious cypher! Plot hole!”
But I really want RogueLeader to weigh in on what 3PO should be able to “interpret” from the Dagger upon discovery. This whole idea is his baby, after all.
EDIT: Besides, Rey senses something fishy about the Dagger, so clearly it means more than Ochi’s special knife. How many artifacts, carved with ancient Sith Runes, imbuded with pure Essence of Dark Side, discovered near a confirmed Sith Cultist, are we reasonably going to find?
If we remove 3PO’s ability to translate it, it’s something that, sure, could be nit picked if you really want to. If we allow 3PO to translate it, then it’s something that objectively makes no sense. (Just don’t program him with the Sith dictionary if you don’t want him translating it!)
The Rise of Skywalker: Untold - A “Rey Nobody” edit of Ep. IX | Looking for voices and VFX - Please reach out if interested!
Love the enthusiasm, jarbear, but I think you’re overthinking this a little. The Dagger is a glorified plot device.
The Rise of Skywalker: Untold - A “Rey Nobody” edit of Ep. IX | Looking for voices and VFX - Please reach out if interested!
That is an interesting idea jarbear. It makes the dagger less of a way finder for the Wayfinder, and more of an independent tool. Though it might raise questions of why he didn’t use it to find Rey before leaving Jakku.
EDIT: Maybe she could hear whispers of “Endor” and “Death Star” rather than literally seeing it. And Rey didn’t know how to use it when she first picked it up, but I can see the fear of that not being explicit.
Yeah, not a perfect idea and doens’t cover everything, but is that question worse than “why a dagger that points to something that points to something?” Hahaha!
But in all seriousness, I get that it may not solve everything, but maybe with some vision stuff it may help. Without 3P0 translating it, she/they wouldn’t know it is significant for Rey to use. She also would have to acklowdge she may need to give in a bit to find the Wayfinder with the dagger which she wouldn’t come to that conclusion without the translation.
“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”
