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The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released) — Page 440

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Jar Jar Bricks said:

With the line removed, it is heavily suggested that Lando has pulled a Luke Skywalker over the past 20 years and has given up on everything. He is rotting away on a desert planet, and hasn’t left it since he was with Luke.

I didn’t get that implication at all in the movie. Luke was clearly very dour, but nothing about the way Lando acts in his scene implies he’s “given up” or “rotting.” If anything he’s pretty jovial. Maybe he stayed on Pasaana because he kept looking for the wayfinder, or maybe he hasn’t been on Pasaana this whole time and just comes back occasionally. Heck, maybe he’s there to party at the festival.

The “transmission” line does help take some of the coincidence out of the meeting, and I don’t think its existence contradicts with the previous movies (TLJ specifically mentions the Resistance has “allies” not present in the movie, and Snap is not in TLJ but is in TFA and TROS), but removing it doesn’t damage Lando’s character if Hal wants to remove it.

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I’ll admit it’s a fair point I hadn’t considered, though.

Hmm. I hadn’t even considered Lando might not have just been there. One thing that implies as much is his confidence in saying “it’s out in the desert where he left it,” like he sees it regularly or at least has recently.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Hey, all I’m saying is that it is canon that Lando stayed there for 14 years once he was done with the mission with Luke:

“He embarked on a quest to the desert planet of Pasaana with Luke Skywalker to find answers about the growing darkness in the Force, but failed to uncover anything. Seeking to bury the pain of those memories (his daughter), Calrissian settled on Pasaana and led a solitary lifestyle where he was known as the “Hermit” to the native Aki-Aki. He lived alone for some years while keeping contact with the Solo family and was later asked by Organa’s Resistance for his aid in the war against the First Order.” -Wookiepeedia

Same thing as Luke, really.

I feel this is the only line that keeps me from considering the above as the only possible answer.

Exsqueeze me.

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If you’re interested in extra-canon context for your decision Hal, and forgive me if someone else mentioned this it previously and I missed it:

In an early set of leaks for the movie, the rest of which were ultimately confirmed to be true at various points of production, Lando explicitly was on Pasaana all this time, but not for the wayfinder. Jannah was planned to be his daughter, taken from him by the First Order on Pasaana, and he never left because he never found her.

Personally I’m fine with or without the line.

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I guess it’s pretty vague and open to however you’d like to interpret it, either way. Don’t think that it’s an accident that they cut any line that explicitly states that he’s been there the whole time, and pretty sure the transmission line was added to dispel that idea. But I guess, like I said, it’s vague and could go either way.

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Damn it, Jar Jar! I had finally convinced Hal to use one of my own ideas! Haha

The way I see it, if Lando went there exclusively to help Rey & Co., it wouldn’t make sense for him to immediately abandon them again as soon as he tells them about ye olde clown Ochi. Why wouldn’t he at least help them get to the ship? Distract the First Order? Anything?? Why’d he bother coming at all? Just send a holo-message to them on the Falcon and save yourself the trip. It’s dumb.

But more importantly - as I’ve said before - we also have to consider dramatic tension, not just what the Wiki says are the dry facts of the mission. (And the Wiki says he was already on Pasaana anyway, soo…aha?) It’s better storytelling if we don’t know whether or not to trust Crossbow Man until he reveals his identity. If he tells us, “It’s okay, I’m a friend of Leia’s!” Then there goes any sense of suspense. Oh, it’s just Lando…Great.

Besides, removing the line doesn’t mean Leia didn’t send him a text. It wouldn’t contradict anything in your headcannon; it would just make the storytelling more impactful.

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Can we trust the crossbow guy who just saved us from a stormtrooper? Seems like a change for the sake of a change if I’m being honest.

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Yes, removing it doesn’t contradict anything, but it also removes the subtle idea that he may not have been there the entire time since his mission with Luke.

I’m simply saying that I find the canon answer really dumb since it feels like Luke 2.0, and I appreciate the idea that he might have decided to travel there to guide them at the behest of Leia.

Sorry that I’m pushing against your idea but I fundamentally disagree that dramatic tension is more important than character motivation.

EDIT: I should also add that I am personally against removing anything else from the film at this point. Like Dom said, these sound like removals for the sake of change. Additions are a different topic entirely.

Exsqueeze me.

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But again, character motivation is shot in the foot in your *interpretation* too. You’d have Lando travel who knows how far just to find them in the nick of time, and then wander away after six lines of exposition rather than doing anything to actually help them on their quest? (More than just something that could be put in an email.)

EDIT: Put it this way, your focus is on handwaving something that may-or-may-not have happened over the past twenty years. I don’t care about that. Let’s focus on the story now, and what the characters are doing now. What works best for the story we’re actually trying to tell?

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I mean, I’d say he was pretty helpful. I’d be willing to bet he was the only person in the galaxy that knew all that information about Ochi, where his ship was located, etc.

To respond to your edit, I actually don’t understand how this would help tension either. How many seconds are inbetween the line and him removing his helmet? And didn’t the guy just kill a stormtrooper? Pretty sure we can trust him. Yes, having him mention Leia makes this abundantly clear to the audience, but it’s just for a few seconds.

Exsqueeze me.

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Well, think of storytelling like a bell curve. The story should build to a peak, at which point the tension is released, and then we have a denouement. For this Lando scene, what’s the peak? What’s the moment at which the tension (i.e. the uncertainty of who this person is) is resolved? Is it when they walk into Lando’s cabin? Or is when they actually reveal that it’s Lando?

So yes, honestly, those few seconds make a hell of a lot of difference when trying to tell a story. With that line, the tension is released as soon as he tells us that he’s Leia’s friend. Oh, and by the way, it’s Lando. You cut the tension during the buildup of the tension. It’s just blatantly bad storytelling. It trips over itself and manages to undercut both the reveal that this person is trustworthy, and that it’s Lando.

Imagine if Obi-Wan appeared to Luke in Empire as he’s making his way through Cloud City, and tells Luke, “By the way, you’re related to Darth Vader.” Only a few seconds, but it would destroy the reveal, wouldn’t it?

Who cares that he killed a stormtrooper? DJ helped them escape prison in the last movie; did that make him trustworthy?

Again, it’s great that you’re trying to track the past twenty years of these character’s lives; but I personally think we should be trying to tell a good story here, not just string together a bunch of Star Wars imagery.

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Jar Jar Bricks said:

I guess I dont really care about the specifics of filmmaking. All I care about is having the characters and lore make sense.

I would argue the tension is released when the stormtrooper is killed. Who the guy is after that shouldn’t keep the audience concerned.

The problem is, this is, first and foremost, a film. If we sacrifice basic storytelling constructs for the sake of Wookieepedia facts, then this turns into a dull, lifeless excuse for Star Wars fan service. But it’s not; it’s a story. Let’s treat it as such.

And if you honestly don’t think the film is “trying” to build to the Lando reveal, then I really don’t know what to tell you, bud.

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First off, that example would not be a few seconds. We’re talking about at least a couple minutes there.

Second, I guess I dont really care about the specifics of filmmaking. All I care about is having the characters and lore make sense. If there is a small sacrifice in the former department for the latter to work well, then so be it I say.

I would argue the tension is released when the stormtrooper is killed. Who the guy is after that shouldn’t keep the audience concerned.

Exsqueeze me.

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Hal 9000 said:

  • Pasaana puppet show with Luke being a legend (snooker and/or RogueLeader filming and compositing elements - will also need a vocal dub to replace the one or two lines with something about Skywalker)

You know, seeing as I kind of came into this whole thing late and I missed the boat on the whole “For Skywalker!” inclusion, I’d love to maybe take a shot at doing the voice for this scene.

However, I’m not a voice actor by any means and I don’t think my voice would fit at all. 😦

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I like whichever version has Poe’s line dubbed in, asking if this masked fellow is Resistance as soon as they’re in private.

BrotherOfSasquatch said:

Hal 9000 said:

  • Pasaana puppet show with Luke being a legend (snooker and/or RogueLeader filming and compositing elements - will also need a vocal dub to replace the one or two lines with something about Skywalker)

You know, seeing as I kind of came into this whole thing late and I missed the boat on the whole “For Skywalker!” inclusion, I’d love to maybe take a shot at doing the voice for this scene.

However, I’m not a voice actor by any means and I don’t think my voice would fit at all. 😦

I’m sure you’ll sound fine! I’ve got a funny accent and so do a few of my friends who recorded lines for the ships arriving. It’s all getting folded into a pleasing babble regardless; the bigger variety of voices the better, I figure.

“It’s like rhymetry. They poem.” - Leorge Gucas

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Jar Jar Bricks said:

I would argue the tension is released when the stormtrooper is killed. Who the guy is after that shouldn’t keep the audience concerned.

This. Keep in mind the flow of the whole scene in the context of everything else. (This is a film after all, not a series of clips. debatable depending on who you ask…)
Tension begins to build with the gang on the move running in danger, rises to a peak with a Stormtrooper catching them… and then releases with getting rescued. Who is under the mask isn’t really supposed to be a suspenseful thing, we know he’s good because he helped them out.
Him mentioning Leia sending a transmission doesn’t detract from any hypothetical suspense either. He could be lying or it could have been this whole thing of Leia didn’t know this old friend of hers turned evil and sells the gang out. Just like a DJ character or something, whatever.

Also I just wanna add, Leia sending Lando a transmission can work with the both ideas that he was already on Pasaana or that he was not. I personally also prefer if he wasn’t doing a Luke 2.0 (he was just keeping low and wearing a mask around the galaxy.) Keeping the line about recieving a transmission helps out that headcanon by giving it more of an explanation, so hey.

I don’t know, I don’t really see the point of removing this one line. It really doesn’t change enough to be worth it to cut, so what’s the point. Just leave it be.

Save the Sebastian Shaw Ghost! Save the dream…!

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The line is so vague though…half the people here took it to mean that Leia contacted him because he was already on Pasaana, and the other half took it to mean that Leia told him to travel across the galaxy to give some exposition about Ochi, and then bugger off to do God knows what instead of helping the gang. If you remove the line, you can still believe whatever you like. Just like you do already. (And the canon answer is that he has been on Pasaana this whole time anyway. I don’t care about canon so much *cough* spice-runner *cough*, but I know that Hal does.)

And seriously, the movie is definitely trying to make Lando’s identity a dramatic reveal, right? Am I crazy? Let’s help them with that.

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Okay, let’s back up here. At first blush it seems like a harmless removal but it seems to fit into the scene. Finn asks “how’d you find us” to set up Lando’s first unmasked line, which implies an understanding that this person was looking for them, which only makes sense with the Leia line.
Given that the movie removes the justification for Lando being there, losing his child, the Leia line has something to offer.

I don’t think the tension building thing really matters in this context. I get the point on paper but this scene as we have it, I don’t think it matters.

I apologize, sherlock, but I’m going to leave this little bit alone. It seems like the best call to make, granted that Lando as presented in this movie could’ve been done better.

Thanks to all for the discussion, and I feel we’ve all expressed our opinions about it by now. Worth considering, at the very least.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Jar Jar Bricks said:

“He embarked on a quest to the desert planet of Pasaana with Luke Skywalker to find answers about the growing darkness in the Force, but failed to uncover anything. Seeking to bury the pain of those memories (his daughter), Calrissian settled on Pasaana and led a solitary lifestyle where he was known as the “Hermit” to the native Aki-Aki. He lived alone for some years while keeping contact with the Solo family and was later asked by Organa’s Resistance for his aid in the war against the First Order.” -Wookiepeedia

Same thing as Luke, really.

I read this and immediately thought of Luke’s description of Obi-Wan as ‘the strange old hermit out beyond the Dune Sea’ from ANH and now I can’t stop thinking of him as Landobi-wan.

“That’s not how the Force works!”

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Hey Sherlock, don’t feel too bad about it. These types of 50/50 split decisions may not end up being in the project, but you can always implement them yourself and possibly share it with everyone. That’s what I’m doing regarding a couple of these LEGO lines. Although I’m personally not currently planning on hosting a download for it. That seems like a lot of effort for a few minor changes.

Exsqueeze me.

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I don’t feel bad at all. Trust me, this teensy little ADR line doesn’t even crack my top 100 issues with the movie. If the film wasn’t being recut anyway, I wouldn’t even have worried about it. If it doesn’t bother the rest of the team, then that’s what we go with.

Also CaptainFaraday is my new best friend.

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Jar Jar Bricks said:

Hey, all I’m saying is that it is canon that Lando stayed there for 14 years once he was done with the mission with Luke:

“He embarked on a quest to the desert planet of Pasaana with Luke Skywalker to find answers about the growing darkness in the Force, but failed to uncover anything. Seeking to bury the pain of those memories (his daughter), Calrissian settled on Pasaana and led a solitary lifestyle where he was known as the “Hermit” to the native Aki-Aki. He lived alone for some years while keeping contact with the Solo family and was later asked by Organa’s Resistance for his aid in the war against the First Order.” -Wookiepeedia

I was curious about the actual canon statement on this since that section of Wookieepedia doesn’t list a source. I found the appropriate part of his biography section which said a similar thing and sourced the TROS Visual Dictionary, so I went and checked his page. Here’s what it says:

Six years after the tragedy that befell his family, Calrissian served as a partner and guide to Luke Skywalker as the Jedi Master searched for clues to a growing darkness he detected in the Force. Whispers spoke of a resurgent enemy from the past, and Skywalker was determined to find some answers. Had some remnant of the Sith survived? Calrissian’s underworld contacts passed along rumors of a hunter of Sith relics on Pasaana, and while Luke and Lando investigated the world’s deserts they did not find their quarry. Lando, however, did find some peace and a sense of community among the humble Aki-Aki, and decided to stay. Once again shielded from an escalating conflict, he felt he had earned his rest after so much sacrifice.

It then details that he was there for 15 years before TROS. I’m pretty fine with this actually, I didn’t like the original implication that he was just hiding out in his feelings there but it sounds like he was just chilling there in retirement living in a nice warm community.

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Yes, Faraday is great. The reason he agrees with you on this Sherlock is because he is following a similar philosophy as you with his novelization. He doesn’t care as much about the surrounding facts, only the story currently being presented.

Anyways, I just don’t buy that somebody as vibrant as Lando would spend all that time on such a desolate world in retirement, even if the locals are nice. I’d imagine him continuing to travel around the galaxy if he wanted to forget his troubles.

Exsqueeze me.

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Hal 9000 said:

I guess it’s about time for another “where are we” post. By my records, here’s everything currently outstanding. Things that, if they were suddenly all turned in, I would begin encoding:

  • Sherlockpotter’s idea to remove Lando line “Leia sent me a transmission” (I just haven’t done it yet)

  • Depict Kylo’s TIE with a different color stripe after his first one gets blowed up (poppasketti working on it)

  • Have Rey’s saber sputter or crap out a little at end of DSII duel (Movies Remastered working on)

  • Have both sabers spark and smoke like it’s Friday night after Palpatine gets blowed up (Movies Remastered working on, or perhaps is finished)

  • Pasaana puppet show with Luke being a legend (snooker and/or RogueLeader filming and compositing elements - will also need a vocal dub to replace the one or two lines with something about Skywalker)

  • Remaining footage of the crackly blue saber (I believe Movies Remastered is helming the shots that weren’t already done by kewlfish or Luka Frik)

  • Fixed Jedi haircut footage from jonh to then be run through by NeverAr for regrading

So clearly there’s still several things outstanding but they are being tracked and will all come together in time. For the thousandth time, you’re all awesome and it’s an ongoing privilege to steer us along.

That’s a good reminder of the “main” things to get done. Of course some good discussion for other ideas is good, like this Lando line. Since it has been decided, I am fine with how it is. The only kinda … strange thing … the movie does is the exchange between him and Rey about the “give Leia my love” line. It’s kinda strange since it kinda … was … implying they don’t talk … but didn’t he literally “got off the phone” with Leia about finding the crew? I am not sure what the point of that exchange was nor the reason for it.

But regardless, I don’t care much about his “I got a call about you guys” … but the one that sticks out is Rey’s kinda strange “Tell that to her yourself” … kinda implying they don’t talk but we know they just did? Kinda seemed unnecessary.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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It gives me a certain sense of power realizing that I could probably propose changing just about any single line in this movie and watch the ensuing battle as people slowly realize all over again that thinking about the line for more than a minute shatters the illusion of the film’s world.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Workprint V2 Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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NeverarGreat said:

It gives me a certain sense of power realizing that I could probably propose changing just about any single line in this movie and watch the ensuing battle as people slowly realize all over again that thinking about the line for more than a minute shatters the illusion of the film’s world.

For some reason, this came to my mind.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”