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The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released) — Page 382

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Jar Jar Bricks said:

Oh, I remember now. If Palpatine knows they have a dyad, it shouldn’t matter how powerful it is, he should realize that he could potentially drain it and would want Rey brought to him alive by Kylo. So yeah, maybe not a good idea to remove those lines.

God, what a mess. I need a break lmfao.

Yeah, was about to say something about that, kinda goes against his plan, it was a surprise to him and used that instead, which was a much better option.

So yeah … still thinking, at the moment, to remove Snoke’s line in TLJ.

You can keep Kylo’s line, to reinforce Palpy has no idea, until the end.

Also thinking, Palps doesn’t always knows or senses everything. Heck, in ROTJ Vader sensed Luke was looking for him and Palps responded he didn’t feel that. It could have been a lie, but let’s take it to face value. He is not all knowing or sensing. He can do a lot, but not everything.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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jarbear said:

Also thinking, Palps doesn’t always knows or senses everything. Heck, in ROTJ Vader sensed Luke was looking for him and Palps responded he didn’t feel that. It could have been a lie, but let’s take it to face value. He is not all knowing or sensing. He can do a lot, but not everything.

Ultimately it does rely on how much information Snoke knows that is “transmitted” to Palpatine. In my mind at least, something that Snoke created with the force would be MUCH more likely to be shared with Palpatine due to the amount of strain and effort it creates. Something that he kinda knows about and is simply relying on? Maybe not so much.

Exsqueeze me.

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I know that this is for The Last Jedi, but wouldn’t it make sense to leave the line about “bridging their minds” intact? Even when it begins, both Ben and Rey are confused as to how they are being connected. Unlike The Rise of Skywalker, where it seems as if Ben is the one making the connections, in The Last Jedi, it happens at pure random.

Noah Lawson

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Hmmm I hadn’t considered that. You make a good point.

But you could make the argument that all of the initial connections they experienced were the will of the force, or the signs of their dyad growing, and once they got the hang of it they could choose to initialize them or decline them as they willed.

Exsqueeze me.

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Yeah and removing Snoke’s line begs the question of how he could have anticipated it. It’d be trading one problem for another.

Do we all just need a break? lol

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Same way Palps anticipated Luke with Vader … But I understand that question.

These movies … oye.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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Hal 9000 said:

Yeah and removing Snoke’s line begs the question of how he could have anticipated it. It’d be trading one problem for another.

I explained earlier that Snoke could be thinking one of two ways: 1. He knows they have some sort of connection already and is anticipating it to be a useful tool in bringing Rey to him 2. He doesn’t know about their connection but assumes that somehow they will get in contact with each other and result in bringing Rey to him. Of course, that isn’t thought out as well.

At least with this problem I have the capability of overlooking it. Not so much with the other side.

Anyways, I agree, it’s probably best to just take a break for now. I would say put in Kylo’s “become” and that’s about it. I’m probably going to stick with removing Snoke’s line, but it definitely isn’t for everyone, and therefore should not be in your edits.

Exsqueeze me.

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Yeah, I agree with that.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Jar Jar Bricks said:

jarbear said:

Also thinking, Palps doesn’t always knows or senses everything. Heck, in ROTJ Vader sensed Luke was looking for him and Palps responded he didn’t feel that. It could have been a lie, but let’s take it to face value. He is not all knowing or sensing. He can do a lot, but not everything.

Ultimately it does rely on how much information Snoke knows that is “transmitted” to Palpatine. In my mind at least, something that Snoke created with the force would be MUCH more likely to be shared with Palpatine due to the amount of strain and effort it creates. Something that he kinda knows about and is simply relying on? Maybe not so much.

There was no indication that Snoke’s information can be automatically transferred from him to Palps; I keep having to say this, Snoke isn’t Palps’ VR headset, he’s still his own person but takes orders from him.

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Master Lawdog said:

I know that this is for The Last Jedi, but wouldn’t it make sense to leave the line about “bridging their minds” intact? Even when it begins, both Ben and Rey are confused as to how they are being connected. Unlike The Rise of Skywalker, where it seems as if Ben is the one making the connections, in The Last Jedi, it happens at pure random.

Again, we don’t know how this power works, so we can infer that it just works that way.

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TestingOutTheTest said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

jarbear said:

Also thinking, Palps doesn’t always knows or senses everything. Heck, in ROTJ Vader sensed Luke was looking for him and Palps responded he didn’t feel that. It could have been a lie, but let’s take it to face value. He is not all knowing or sensing. He can do a lot, but not everything.

Ultimately it does rely on how much information Snoke knows that is “transmitted” to Palpatine. In my mind at least, something that Snoke created with the force would be MUCH more likely to be shared with Palpatine due to the amount of strain and effort it creates. Something that he kinda knows about and is simply relying on? Maybe not so much.

There was no indication that Snoke’s information can be automatically transferred from him to Palps; I keep having to say this, Snoke isn’t Palps’ VR headset, he’s still his own person but takes orders from him.

If you had read my post more carefully you would see that I agree with you. We don’t know how much information Snoke knows that is given to him, but the amount of it would be nice to have been stated because it gives us an idea of what is okay for him to be saying.

In this case, even if Palpatine knew nothing about Snoke’s thoughts, I’m 99% sure he would be able to detect him pulling off such an intense force feat such as creating their bond. If Snoke only knows about the bond, and doesn’t create it, then in order for Palpatine to know about it he would have to know his internal thoughts, which is much more unlikely. That is why imo it is a good change, but it does come with its own other minor problems.

Exsqueeze me.

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Jar Jar Bricks said:

TestingOutTheTest said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

jarbear said:

Also thinking, Palps doesn’t always knows or senses everything. Heck, in ROTJ Vader sensed Luke was looking for him and Palps responded he didn’t feel that. It could have been a lie, but let’s take it to face value. He is not all knowing or sensing. He can do a lot, but not everything.

Ultimately it does rely on how much information Snoke knows that is “transmitted” to Palpatine. In my mind at least, something that Snoke created with the force would be MUCH more likely to be shared with Palpatine due to the amount of strain and effort it creates. Something that he kinda knows about and is simply relying on? Maybe not so much.

There was no indication that Snoke’s information can be automatically transferred from him to Palps; I keep having to say this, Snoke isn’t Palps’ VR headset, he’s still his own person but takes orders from him.

If you had read my post more carefully you would see that I agree with you. We don’t know how much information Snoke knows that is given to him, but the amount of it would be nice to have been stated because it gives us an idea of what is okay for him to be saying.

In this case, even if Palpatine knew nothing about Snoke’s thoughts, I’m 99% sure he would be able to detect him pulling off such an intense force feat such as creating their bond. If Snoke only knows about the bond, and doesn’t create it, then in order for Palpatine to know about it he would have to know his internal thoughts, which is much more unlikely. That is why imo it is a good change, but it does come with its own other minor problems.

I mean, I don’t think Leia, Finn or Rey sensed that Luke was a projection on Crait (I’m not including Kylo Ren, he was too blinded by his own arrogance to realize Luke was a projection), which was also an intense Force feat.

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That is a good point, but TROS gives the impression that Snoke and Palpatine are linked in some way. It’s never explained how much, which is why we are having this discussion in the first place. So sure, it’s not a VR screen, but think of it like Palpatine can see his vital signs and a couple of other minor things. I would imagine that him using the force like that would be detected by him in such a case, whereas his internal thoughts wouldn’t be. So we solve one of the circumstances with this change, but not the VR case (which likely isn’t true to begin with).

Exsqueeze me.

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 (Edited)

Am I the only one who thinks it’s funny how we’re all frying our brains trying to make the trilogy make sense? Lol it’s great.

Reading over the last few posts, and mulling it over some more, I think what would have made the most sense is if the Rey/Kylo connection was very explicitly established in TFA. Something like, Rey senses Kylo when he arrives on Jakku, and she sets off intentionally looking for BB-8. Then Snoke plays on that innate connection in TLJ, and it all comes to a head in TROS, where their connection becomes so powerful that they can teleport lightsabers to each other like it’s nothing.

The problem is, J.J. hadn’t thought of the Dyad in TFA (or at least, he didn’t make it clear). So Rian comes in and artificially creates a connection between the two of them (a connection which they even question, like, “Wtf what’s happening?”) as a tool for character building, not a grandiose plot point. Then J.J. comes back and says, “Nah, that was a ‘Dyad’ all along! DYAD!!” I can’t see a way of making it work without A) Doing massive recuts to both TFA and TLJ, and B) Finding new scenes for TFA that never would have been filmed.

If I can get it to work, I think “becoming a Dyad” is the most elegant solution, something that’s vague enough to appeal to both sides of the aisle. I was playing with it more on my lunch break…I should be able to post a second attempt later this evening.

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Jar Jar Bricks said:

Hal, to be honest, I’ve completely forgotten how we landed on this topic again LMAO.

Yeah, sorry, I think that was my fault. I was thinking about how much I liked Burbin’s suggestion of “become a Dyad” (even if I couldn’t remember to whom the idea should be credited), and I was just wondering if anything had happened with it yet.

I guess at this point…

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sherlockpotter said:

Reading over the last few posts, and mulling it over some more, I think what would have made the most sense is if the Rey/Kylo connection was very explicitly established in TFA. Something like, Rey senses Kylo when he arrives on Jakku, and she sets off intentionally looking for BB-8. Then Snoke plays on that innate connection in TLJ, and it all comes to a head in TROS, where their connection becomes so powerful that they can teleport lightsabers to each other like it’s nothing.

The problem is, J.J. hadn’t thought of the Dyad in TFA (or at least, he didn’t make it clear). So Rian comes in and artificially creates a connection between the two of them (a connection which they even question, like, “Wtf what’s happening?”) as a tool for character building, not a grandiose plot point. Then J.J. comes back and says, “Nah, that was a ‘Dyad’ all along! DYAD!!” I can’t see a way of making it work without A) Doing massive recuts to both TFA and TLJ, and B) Finding new scenes for TFA that never would have been filmed.

If I can get it to work, I think “becoming a Dyad” is the most elegant solution, something that’s vague enough to appeal to both sides of the aisle. I was playing with it more on my lunch break…I should be able to post a second attempt later this evening.

I agree with literally everything here. Nothing much else to add here.

On the topic of your B) point, I already mentioned the “It is you” Kylo line when Rey grabs the lightsaber. I feel that would possibly hint at such a connection in TFA, but it probably isn’t enough. Like you said, it would probably have to be entire scenes in order to be clear enough.

Exsqueeze me.

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Wouldn’t that have been something if it was/could/possible/insert-other-word/ to “is it you?”

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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It is, jarbear. That’s why I keep bringing it up.

Does anybody have access to the raw audio files of Lego Star Wars: The Force Awakens? It’s voiced by Adam Driver.

EDIT: Wait, that’s not what you’re asking, is it? Kind of having a hard time understanding your sentence there lmao.

Oh I see. My brain really is dead right now. I’m not sure what “Is it you?” would accomplish though.

Exsqueeze me.

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I don’t think adding that to TFA would really do anything but pile on a little more confusion.

Thanks for the discussion, it’s good to get into the details here in this phase.

And sherlockpotter I’ll look forward to what you can do with that line. 😃

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Jar Jar Bricks said:

sherlockpotter said:

Reading over the last few posts, and mulling it over some more, I think what would have made the most sense is if the Rey/Kylo connection was very explicitly established in TFA. Something like, Rey senses Kylo when he arrives on Jakku, and she sets off intentionally looking for BB-8. Then Snoke plays on that innate connection in TLJ, and it all comes to a head in TROS, where their connection becomes so powerful that they can teleport lightsabers to each other like it’s nothing.

The problem is, J.J. hadn’t thought of the Dyad in TFA (or at least, he didn’t make it clear). So Rian comes in and artificially creates a connection between the two of them (a connection which they even question, like, “Wtf what’s happening?”) as a tool for character building, not a grandiose plot point. Then J.J. comes back and says, “Nah, that was a ‘Dyad’ all along! DYAD!!” I can’t see a way of making it work without A) Doing massive recuts to both TFA and TLJ, and B) Finding new scenes for TFA that never would have been filmed.

If I can get it to work, I think “becoming a Dyad” is the most elegant solution, something that’s vague enough to appeal to both sides of the aisle. I was playing with it more on my lunch break…I should be able to post a second attempt later this evening.

I agree with literally everything here. Nothing much else to add here.

On the topic of your B) point, I already mentioned the “It is you” Kylo line when Rey grabs the lightsaber. I feel that would possibly hint at such a connection in TFA, but it probably isn’t enough. Like you said, it would probably have to be entire scenes in order to be clear enough.

I stated earlier that Kylo was saying it in the sense that Rey was the one who awakened in the Force.

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It doesn’t help that I’m trying to write code for my class at the same time I’m frying my brain with the incomprehensible story of the sequel trilogy.

I’m actually going to hop off now. lol

Exsqueeze me.

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 (Edited)

It wouldn’t be a star wars trilogy without a convoluted storyline that has its intentions change from movie to movie lol.

What, no Turkey?!

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Holy shit guys:

"That really helped us in thinking about Rey and Kylo Ren, which is to say that we wanted to elaborate on the idea that Snoke bridged their minds in ‘The Last Jedi.’ But what we wanted to say is that there’s something deeper there, and leave it to debate about at which point they became this dyad in the Force, where they were really two, or were they one, whether that was a mistake that Palpatine made by bridging them and therefore creating this thing. But regardless, their relationship is extremely interesting and complicated, and it was one of the things that J.J. and I loved about ‘The Last Jedi’ that we luckily inherited and could build.”

Straight from the horse’s mouth (Chris Terrio).

Exsqueeze me.

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Hmm, interesting. That quote suggests that they essentially equate Snoke with Palpatine. (And I get that Snoke wasn’t intended to be a meat puppet, but still, I think it’s reasonable for a moviegoing audience to essentially view them as functionally the same given the opening to TROS.)

I think I’m resolved on this now: TFA and TLJ won’t be altered further about this point, but it’d be nifty to augment Kylo’s line to suggest they became a dyad. This (sort of) explains why Palpatine was surprised by this without negating any Snoke mind-bridging or destiny that was already at work prior.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.