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The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released) — Page 378

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sherlockpotter said:

This may be totally impossible, but I’m just spitballing. If we cut around the “Hux is a spy” stuff, would it be possible to imply that Pryde kills Hux in order to merge the First Order with the Final Order on Palpatine’s…er, orders? So it’s like Pryde is staging a coup, as a Palpatine cultist, in order to bring the First Order resources to Exegol?

Not sure if there’s enough footage to effectively portray this, but I thought it was an intriguing angle. The Spy stuff can almost definitely be removed; I have an edit of the Poe’s return/“What did you do to the Falcon?” scene somewhere that I made as a proof of concept.

Removing the spy plot thread would be a really complicated matter which would remove several portions of the film. Imo not worth removing as it would make the pacing even more quick.

EDIT: My previous comment on everything else we discussed ended up on the previous page. Check that out as well if you want.

Exsqueeze me.

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Jar Jar Bricks said:

sherlockpotter said:

This may be totally impossible, but I’m just spitballing. If we cut around the “Hux is a spy” stuff, would it be possible to imply that Pryde kills Hux in order to merge the First Order with the Final Order on Palpatine’s…er, orders? So it’s like Pryde is staging a coup, as a Palpatine cultist, in order to bring the First Order resources to Exegol?

Not sure if there’s enough footage to effectively portray this, but I thought it was an intriguing angle. The Spy stuff can almost definitely be removed; I have an edit of the Poe’s return/“What did you do to the Falcon?” scene somewhere that I made as a proof of concept.

Removing the spy plot thread would be a really complicated matter which would remove several portions of the film. Imo not worth removing as it would make the pacing even more quick.

I think it would’ve been cool if that had happened originally, but I do think it might be too tricky to pull off a full restructure like that. It was more of a hypothetical idea I had than a “necessary change.”

To be fair though - the spy subplot encompasses two lines of dialogue in the intel pickup scene, a couple of lines in the Poe Return scene, and 90 seconds at best during the Destroyer escape sequence? I’d hardly call it consequential.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Even in the original ROTS, that is Palpatines real look. It’s just not implied very well in the film because Palpatine is purposely making it look like he is being injured, even though he isn’t. It was a manipulation tactic done by himself against Anakin (and the galaxy as well).

Don’t we literally see his face melting in the original cut? That doesn’t imply “Palpatine’s real look” to me.

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Guys, have you considered deepfaking Rey’s father to look like a young Ian McDiarmid?

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AntonioGK said:

Guys, have you considered deepfaking Rey’s father to look like a young Ian McDiarmid?

I’m fine with him looking the way he does. I like to think that he looks different due to him leading a different lifestyle.

What, no Turkey?!

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sherlockpotter said:

Don’t we literally see his face melting in the original cut? That doesn’t imply “Palpatine’s real look” to me.

Like I said, not very well implied in the film. He was purposely manipulating the visuals to look that way. Either that, or what you see “melting” is his fake face. Otherwise, why don’t other characters turn into a mini-Palpatine when they are electrocuted?

I believe the novelization that was released around the same time of the movie talks about it. Palpatine thinks to himself, and I’m paraphrasing here, that the face of Sidious will prove helpful in convincing the galaxy to stay by his side, and that the face of Palpatine has served its purpose.

So Hal’s change to ROTS just makes that idea more clear.

Exsqueeze me.

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Jar Jar Bricks said:

sherlockpotter said:

Don’t we literally see his face melting in the original cut? That doesn’t imply “Palpatine’s real look” to me.

Like I said, not very well implied in the film. He was purposely manipulating the visuals to look that way. Either that, or what you see “melting” is his fake face. Otherwise, why don’t other characters turn into a mini-Palpatine when they are electrocuted?

I believe the novelization that was released around the same time of the movie talks about it. Palpatine thinks to himself, and I’m paraphrasing here, that the face of Sidious will prove helpful in convincing the galaxy to stay by his side, and that the face of Palpatine has served its purpose.

So Hal’s change to ROTS just makes that idea more clear.

I mean, why does lightning disintegrate him in this movie? I dunno, Force Powers are just all out of whack. If you’re not willing to hand wave a lot of the idiosyncrasies in Star Wars, you’re gonna have a bad time lol.

I guess I should read the novels one of these days. Maybe a lot of my questions would be answered.

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Speaking of dumb, idiosyncratic Force Powers, is the Dyad line still getting changed to “What Palpatine doesn’t know is, we’ve become a Dyad in the Force”? I liked that change a lot. Makes it sit much better after they established Snoke bridging their minds in TLJ.

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Ooooh, that’d be good.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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First, as for why the lightning disintegrates him in this movie, he was putting all of his UnLiMiTeD power into it. In ROTS, he was clearly creating a show for Anakin in order to tempt him.

Second, I wouldn’t mind the change to the word “become” (even though my TLJ edit removes Snoke admitting to bridging their minds). I say that because obviously at some point they’ve become a dyad in the force, I just prefer to leave it up to interpretation (my personal idea is that it started in the interrogation scene).

Exsqueeze me.

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Hard to say if it’ll sound good but I’d be happy to try it out. May not be tonight though if I have to sleep on the couch with the sick widdle boy again.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Pretty sure the only reason JJ wrote it that way (“we’re a dyad in the force”) is because of a couple lines from TFA.

  1. Kylo asking his officer “What girl?”, which gives the impression that he is aware of some mysterious girl out there that he keeps having visions/dreams of.
  2. Kylo saying “It is you.” in early drafts of film TFA after Rey gets Anakin’s lightsaber. The line still appears in the novelization and is voiced by Adam Driver in the lego game. The line implies once again that he has had visions of her or knows there is some sort of connection between them.

Exsqueeze me.

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In regards to the Dyad thing, once again, merits on both sides of it.

I think I lean towards them “always being a dyad” is it really helps explains stuff in TFA as Jar Jar brought up right now, but also for me specifically, how Rey was able to, erm, “download” Kylo’s powers and abilities without doing a dang thing. So for that alone, I’m ok with it being something they always were.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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I was going to bring up the “It is you” line in Hal’s TFA edit thread but I realized he was likely already finished with that movie. It’s completely voiced by Adam Driver in the lego game and would be pretty easy to insert, but ultimately it just creates problems if Snoke is the one who claims that he bridged their minds.

Exsqueeze me.

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Maybe I’m missing something obvious but what does changing it from “we’re a dyad in the Force” to “we’ve become a dyad in the Force” accomplish? Like why would it help to imply that they’ve recently become a dyad, especially when it may contradict the “What girl?” line Jar Jar brought up in TFA that implies Kylo has always subconsciously known about her. IDK, I like the always-dyad over the new-dyad because it further reinforces the concept of them being literal soulmates which I really like as someone who likes reylo

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Jar Jar Bricks said:
but ultimately it just creates problems if Snoke is the one who claims that he bridged their minds.

I’ll always bring up that any issue with this Snoke line and the always-dyad is easily fixed by assuming that Snoke lied which is fully reasonable in my eyes

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Fair enough, Brewzter. I just don’t like it when these kind of crucial details rely on the audience knowing what the character said was a lie, especially when it is never explicitly proven to be one. This is why I remove it from TLJ, but apparently that removes one of the greatest film twists of all time (sarcasm). Personally, I feel that Snoke taking advantage of their mind link instead of creating it is still a good twist, but whatever.

Exsqueeze me.

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Jar Jar Bricks said:

Fair enough, Brewzter. I just don’t like it when these kind of crucial details rely on the audience knowing what the character said was a lie, especially when it is never explicitly proven to be one. This is why I remove it from TLJ, but apparently that removes one of the greatest film twists of all time (sarcasm). Personally, I feel that Snoke taking advantage of their mind link instead of creating it is still a good twist, but whatever.

I agree … I don’t like it when “they” make the audience “assume” or “figure out” that a character lied because “X, Y, or Z” reasons … especially when a plot hole/creative change appears.

Shakes head

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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Oh I definitely agree that it’s a flaw in the trilogy, but it’s just not one that bothers me. It kinda goes back to what I said a few days ago about how I ignore TLJ flaws and nitpick TROS flaws haha

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To me it would help give a reason (or reason-adjacent concept) why Palpatine seems surprised by something like that. The only thing that would stand out is Kylo saying “What girl?” in TFA but that’s pretty minor and could just be that he sensed her or whatever.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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bbghost said:

I’d always just assumed that was Snoke lying through his crooked yellow teeth to further manipulate Kylo, as Sith(-adjacent) lords are wont to do. He’d seen into Kylo’s mind and discovered their bond, deciding to take credit for it to try and undermine/complicated their feelings for each other.

I have no doubt that is most likely going to be the canon answer at some point (or already), and was the intention the writers of TROS had when creating the concept of the dyad. But it’s just kinda messy. And they didn’t have the opportunity (like us) to go back and change certain small details in the previous films.

Exsqueeze me.

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And Hal, since you’re keeping Snoke’s mind bridge line I agree it would be best to change this line. Otherwise, in order for things to make sense you would need to insert “It is you” into TFA and remove Snoke’s mind bridge lines from TLJ. I know those changes would be controversial, and you most likely don’t want to return to them, either. So just do this small change to have things make a little more sense for what we currently have in your trilogy.

Exsqueeze me.

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Jar Jar Bricks said:
I have no doubt that is most likely going to be the canon answer at some point (or already), and was the intention the writers of TROS had when creating the concept of the dyad. But it’s just kinda messy. And they didn’t have the opportunity (like us) to go back and change certain small details in the previous films.

Yeah, it’s certainly messy and inconsistent. Just another day in the ST, heh.

Star Wars: The Last Skywalker Awakens (a sequel trilogy mega-edit)

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It could be along the lines of the theory that Palpatine/Plagueis inadvertently created Anakin/the Chosen One. They thought they could use him, but in the end it was their undoing.

Maybe Snoke did bridge their minds, which inadvertently solidified their bond and made them become a Dyad in the Force. So Snoke/Palpatine’s own machinations led to their undoing once again. I mean, we basically get that theme already since Palpatine indirectly made Rey by having a child of his own.