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The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released) — Page 375

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krausfadr said:

The simplest and most effective thing to do for the puppet show would be for one big puppet AT-AT to be firing at Luke (just someone making a laser sound effect their mouth), then Luke raises his hand and sends it toppling over. An extended or complicated puppet sequence would start to get very fan edity.

EDIT: The person who came up with this concept is a genius.

I am certainly not take credit for coming up with the concept, but when I first saw the film in theaters I was shocked JJ didn’t insert this idea into the film. The setup was there and it would have been a subtle nod to Luke’s valiant stand on Crait and its impact on the rest of the galaxy at large. It also would make the civilian fleet showing up at the end of the film not so jarring. Honestly, someone tweaking this scene to show a puppet Luke and an AT-AT is my last wish for V2 of this edit!

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Hal 9000 said:

I’m not sold, but it would introduce a sunRISE.

It’d have to be subtle enough not to make the scene hard to see. The fire and everything would need to look bright.

Oh man, would it be possible to get a sunrise effect right as the X-Wing is floating upwards? That could look really nice.

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Well, we can see (one of) the Sun(s) coming up anyway as we pan over to Luke in that moment. It’s just not lit like it was pre-daybreak. Who knows with a binary system like that, I guess. Wonder if the novelization clarifies the time of day, not that it’d matter.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Huh, I just re-watched the scene and you’re right, the sun is just peeking over the horizon at that moment. So, at what time of day does the scene actually take place? I guess it’s right before sunset?

Granted, the two suns are only visible in one shot in TLJ; every other time, it seems like a uniform light source. I honestly thought it was just a clever metaphor until I looked it up just now. If more effort wants to go into coloring that scene, I guess it should just be about what feels most natural, rather than trying to chart two different stars across the sky.

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sherlockpotter said:

Huh, I just re-watched the scene and you’re right, the sun is just peeking over the horizon at that moment. So, at what time of day does the scene actually take place? I guess it’s right before sunset?

Granted, the two suns are only visible in one shot in TLJ; every other time, it seems like a uniform light source. I honestly thought it was just a clever metaphor until I looked it up just now. If more effort wants to go into coloring that scene, I guess it should just be about what feels most natural, rather than trying to chart two different stars across the sky.

Two, actually. The establishing shot of the sunrise before we cut to Rey awakening, and Luke’s final moment.

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Maybe Luke hallucinated a second Sun as he was dying from focusing so hard.

The novelization suggests that the Ach-To scene begins near dusk, continues overnight, and ends with the sunrise. If that can be realized well and without making the scene difficult to see, it could be a good way to imply a longer stay on the planet. Especially now that the 16-hour ticking clock has been removed. Yeah they’re in a hurry, but that specific element is gone.

RISE. Anyone feel up to the task? Obviously we will want to use jonh’s haircut footage once finalized, but the work done to the footage can be applied to this footage. This isn’t needed, but could be a nice alteration. I’d say better as subtle; I don’t want it to look like the theater’s bulb burned out. Just enough to convey the time of day using cinema parlance.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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TestingOutTheTest said:

sherlockpotter said:

Huh, I just re-watched the scene and you’re right, the sun is just peeking over the horizon at that moment. So, at what time of day does the scene actually take place? I guess it’s right before sunset?

Granted, the two suns are only visible in one shot in TLJ; every other time, it seems like a uniform light source. I honestly thought it was just a clever metaphor until I looked it up just now. If more effort wants to go into coloring that scene, I guess it should just be about what feels most natural, rather than trying to chart two different stars across the sky.

Two, actually. The establishing shot of the sunrise before we cut to Rey awakening, and Luke’s final moment.

Went back to check this, and there is definitely just one sun in that shot.

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Hal 9000 said:

Maybe Luke hallucinated a second Sun as he was dying from focusing so hard.

The novelization suggests that the Ach-To scene begins near dusk, continues overnight, and ends with the sunrise. If that can be realized well and without making the scene difficult to see, it could be a good way to imply a longer stay on the planet. Especially now that the 16-hour ticking clock has been removed. Yeah they’re in a hurry, but that specific element is gone.

That’s exactly what I always thought until I looked it up on Wookieepedia just now! I mean, heck, I even double checked the “Rey wakes up” shot, and I only see one sun. Maybe I miscounted.

Although, it does make you wonder how TROS’s official story goes through an entire night cycle in, what, 10 hours? Alien planet, I suppose.

The tricky thing about dimming this scene would be, like you mentioned, Hal, making the light sources still effectively “generating” light. Luke won’t just have to be (less) blue; he’ll have to literally glow. The fire, the sun(s)…it might be tricky to pull off convincingly.

EDIT: If we do want to go this route, I think we should ignore the novelization about the scene lasting from dusk to dawn. I think it would be more visually intelligible to simply go from nighttime to daybreak. The scene is only a few minutes long, and I’m worried it will feel oddly paced to try and display an entire night in those few minutes. (Plus, it feels more symbolic to me.)

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Hal 9000 said:

Maybe Luke hallucinated a second Sun as he was dying from focusing so hard.

The novelization suggests that the Ach-To scene begins near dusk, continues overnight, and ends with the sunrise. If that can be realized well and without making the scene difficult to see, it could be a good way to imply a longer stay on the planet. Especially now that the 16-hour ticking clock has been removed. Yeah they’re in a hurry, but that specific element is gone.

RISE. Anyone feel up to the task? Obviously we will want to use jonh’s haircut footage once finalized, but the work done to the footage can be applied to this footage. This isn’t needed, but could be a nice alteration. I’d say better as subtle; I don’t want it to look like the theater’s bulb burned out. Just enough to convey the time of day using cinema parlance.

It’s pretty easy to make the first and last parts look like sunset/sunrise. Here’s a blanket grade I put over the whole thing pretty quickly:

http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/KGYZGNNX

The light would be reduced throughout the scene, with some power windows to keep the firelight and ghost effects bright. The trick would be to make part of it look like night. I assume the night would be within Luke’s hut, and would take some more dedicated power windows. Rey would be cast in shadow with a slight blue glow from Luke’s ghost and the bright sky outside would need to be darkened, but it’s possible.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite The Starlight Project (Workprint V2 Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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sherlockpotter said:

Movies Remastered said:

sherlockpotter said:

Hal, I’m sure there will be 15 books published in the next 10 years about Poe and Keri Russell having a fling while running spice. The EU never disappoints 😉

I’m thinking something like this:

ZORII: Babu? Babu only works with the crew. That’s not you anymore.

REY: What crew?

ZORII: Oh, funny he never mentioned it. Your friend’s old job was running spice, “until we learned he was a spy for” (The Resistance) [pulled from a few lines down]

FINN: You were a spice runner?

POE: You were a stormtrooper?

REY: Were you a spice runner?

POE: Were you a scavenger? We could do this all night.

ZORII: You don’t have all night. You know, I’m still digging out of the hole you put me in when you left to join the Resistance. You. You’re the one they’re looking for. Bounty for her just might cover us.

(We can play around with it, Jar Jar; but I’m not sure how well it will fit if he was just playing a part. And personally, I think this particular banter feels a little awkward anyway. Unlike the rest of the script, which sounds like it was written by Aaron Sorkin.)

I filmed a video showing that very scene yesterday. 👍🏼

Dude, really? Ha! Just please don’t burn yourself out on this movie!

I guess the lines could still work in context, I just…I don’t know. I’m wondering if, given that we still don’t know Chewie is alive, and he only just died, it may be too soon for quips. Literally 10 seconds ago, these characters were mourning the death of a Star Wars icon. Now they’re cracking jokes in the middle of an occupation zone.

I almost feel like they have enough banter during the rest of the film. Can’t they take a scene to be serious for once? Chewie is dead! This isn’t a game anymore.

Here’s the Zorii scene we were talking about https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1413620/action/topic#1413620

Check out - http://www.youtube.com/moviesremastered

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I watched your video and like it MR.

It’s really clean and fits with the “seriousness” of what’s going on with the situation and does seem more “respectful” of the events of Chewy’s “death.”

There’s already so much banter in other spots in the movie … so it isn’t missed.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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Thanks man, I’ve taken a lot of the “banter” out as I felt JJ missed the mark most of the time. I also felt they really bullied 3PO to a point of being nasty, JJ didn’t get that mix right either, IMO so I’ve changed that too.

Check out - http://www.youtube.com/moviesremastered

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jarbear said:

I watched your video and like it MR.

It’s really clean and fits with the “seriousness” of what’s going on with the situation

I mean, the way I always interpreted it is that he knows Zorri would never actually shoot him. They had a thing going for a while there and he probably believes she’s just venting her frustrations at him.

Furthermore, I personally feel like it’s a good idea to try to make the audience feel a bit better after the last portion of the movie “killed off” a beloved character. Sure, maybe it isn’t right for the trio to be acting that upbeat but it might be what the audience needs to keep them invested until Chewie is revealed to still be alive.

Would be interested to see what Hal has to say about this, though.

Exsqueeze me.

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Once again I think you’re on the money, Jar Jar.

The only thing there that I’m inclined to agree with is the reverence paid to Rey by Zorri saying she thinks she’s okay. However, I recall fielding that idea dozens or hundreds of pages ago and someone convinced me not to for reasons I can’t recall. I think it was so that Zorri doesn’t appear to only help them out of a gunpoint threat.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Movies Remastered said:

Here’s the Zorii scene we were talking about https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1413620/action/topic#1413620

I like it. I think it flows a lot better, honestly.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

I mean, the way I always interpreted it is that he knows Zorri would never actually shoot him. They had a thing going for a while there and he probably believes she’s just venting her frustrations at him.

Furthermore, I personally feel like it’s a good idea to try to make the audience feel a bit better after the last portion of the movie “killed off” a beloved character. Sure, maybe it isn’t right for the trio to be acting that upbeat but it might be what the audience needs to keep them invested until Chewie is revealed to still be alive.

Why do we want a film that coddles the audience? I’ve already said my piece about this, but I don’t think the film should be trying to make the audience feel better. The film should want you to feel sad that Chewie is dead, not, “Lol it’s fine! Here are some jokes!” The emotional beat doesn’t land if the film undermines it in the next scene - that’s the same exact reason why the Chewie Reveal scene was cut from Ascendant in the first place. The surface-level clash of showing that Chewie isn’t really dead has been removed; but the emotional clash of not being sad for him is still there.

The banter works in the moment (yeah, obviously Zorii isn’t going to shoot him in the head); but in the larger context of the film? It’s pretty horrendous.

Hal 9000 said:

The only thing there that I’m inclined to agree with is the reverence paid to Rey by Zorri saying she thinks she’s okay. However, I recall fielding that idea dozens or hundreds of pages ago and someone convinced me not to for reasons I can’t recall. I think it was so that Zorri doesn’t appear to only help them out of a gunpoint threat.

The line is god awful, but Hal makes a good point. Plus, I like the idea that Rey “cares” that someone else “thinks she’s okay,” considering how much guilt and uncertainty she’s feeling right now. (Look, guys! I’m defending the original script!!) Maybe it could be trimmed to just “You’re okay”? I don’t have strong feelings either way.

I’m still trying to find a way to re-contextualize Poe’s Spice-Runnin’ days. It’s tricky, because Zorri says exactly 266 words in the entire film. What an valuable character.

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sherlockpotter said:

The film should want you to feel sad that Chewie is dead, not, “Lol it’s fine! Here are some jokes!” The emotional beat doesn’t land if the film undermines it in the next scene - that’s the same exact reason why the Chewie Reveal scene was cut from Ascendant in the first place.

Interesting choice of words there: “the next scene”. If you take a look at the movie, the next scene is actually a whole grieving scene that takes place on the Falcon. As a result, the film has already accomplished making you feel sad. I believe what we’re arguing about is whether or not the film should remain on that grief for an extended period of time or keep the plot going without that weighing down its options (since he is actually still alive).

Exsqueeze me.

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Although Jar Jar and Hal’s rational has merit, which I don’t disagree with.

But … remember the comedy/banter/“make the audience feel good” after Han’s death?

Nope. Let us feel. The reward of knowing Chewy is ok is that much sweeter for teh audience instead of laughing the way till we see him.

Also, there is merit for the Zorri/Rey stuff, which I get that rationale … but it’s so bad. What if it’s just Zorri saying “I think you’re ok” or whatever after Rey puts the saber away and stretches out her hand? That way you still get across a bit that Zorri isn’t just having a gun to her head to help out, but she actually appreciates Rey’s skill and character. Kinda like BECAUSE of her acknlowedging Rey she is choosing to help out, in a sense, or at least agreeing to do it because of Rey’s merit.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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jarbear said:

Nope. Let us feel. The reward of knowing Chewy is ok is that much sweeter for teh audience instead of laughing the way till we see him.

As I stated in my previous post, the movie still gives you the opportunity to feel. It all takes place on the Falcon in a relatively long scene. My rationale is this: why should the movie dwell on that grief any more than that when it turns out he was ok all along? It makes it much more restrictive as to what the characters are allowed to say/do on Kijimi… but for no reason whatsoever in the big picture (since he’s alive).

I can understand the change possibly for those who haven’t seen the film before. But for those of us who know Chewie is still alive it is taking away lines that some of us enjoy (“We could do this all night”, etc.), utlimately for no good reason.

Exsqueeze me.

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Jar Jar Bricks said:

sherlockpotter said:

The film should want you to feel sad that Chewie is dead, not, “Lol it’s fine! Here are some jokes!” The emotional beat doesn’t land if the film undermines it in the next scene - that’s the same exact reason why the Chewie Reveal scene was cut from Ascendant in the first place.

Interesting choice of words there: “the next scene”. If you take a look at the movie, the next scene is actually a whole grieving scene that takes place on the Falcon. As a result, the film has already accomplished making you feel sad. I believe what we’re arguing about is whether or not the film should remain on that grief for an extended period of time or keep the plot going without that weighing down its options (since he is actually still alive).

Oh sure, there’s the “Heroes Regroup” scene, which is all of two minutes long, and already has a bit of (much more gentle) humor when 3PO comes and holds Poe’s hand. If you think that two minutes is enough time to mourn the death of a cultural icon, then great. My point is that, as jarbear says, we’ve stretched out the delay until we learn that Chewie is actually alive. What if we allowed the emotional undercurrent to match? Then the relief comes when we learn Chewie isn’t actually dead, rather than when we learn that “PoE wAs A sPiCe RuNnEr.”

I believe what we’re arguing about is whether or not the film should remain on that grief for an extended period of time or keep the plot going without that weighing down its options (since he is actually still alive).

A) We don’t know he’s still alive. And B) The plot doesn’t get “weighed down” by having a moderately less flippant tone. It’s possible for a film to be serious and still move the plot forward.

I’m with jarbear on this one.

EDIT: bbghost, nice job with your edit! Looks like you had the same thought as MR.

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sherlockpotter said:

If you think that two minutes is enough time to mourn the death of a cultural icon, then great.

Not what I’m suggesting. I’m saying that if the movie spends so much time on reminding the audience of Chewie’s death, then all of that time is spent ultimately for nothing (except a heightened sense of relief maybe). But relief only works on a first time viewing. And after a first time watcher sees the movie, they might think it was cheap to drag out the grief for that long only to go back on it. Two minutes of screentime is enough time for the characters to think an icon has just died. But why subject the audience to more than that when it will be undone?

I will say that I can see where you’re coming from, but I’d rather not lose any of the dialogue lol.

Exsqueeze me.

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I can see the argument for both sides, the movie is already edited originally like someone spent a weekend on coke while editing it.

The pros of the re-edit:
Gets rid of that disgraceful spice runner line. It helps make it feel a bit more suspenseful.

The cons:
Its another scene that’s over and done with no room to breathe.

What, no Turkey?!

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Jar Jar Bricks said:

sherlockpotter said:

If you think that two minutes is enough time to mourn the death of a cultural icon, then great.

Not what I’m suggesting. I’m saying that if the movie spends so much time on reminding the audience of Chewie’s death, then all of that time is spent ultimately for nothing (except a heightened sense of relief maybe). But relief only works on a first time viewing. And after a first time watcher sees the movie, they might think it was cheap to drag out the grief for that long only to go back on it. Two minutes is enough time for the characters to think an icon has just died.

I felt the same way after I watched ANH. Why did they waste all of that time establishing the Death Star as a threat if it was just going to be destroyed later on? What’s the point of Han and Leia flying through the asteroid field in ESB if they were just going to leave it a few minutes later? Why did we spend so long in ROTJ on the Emperor trying to tempt Luke to join him, if Luke ultimately didn’t?

Hell, why waste an entire trilogy on Kylo being evil, if he would eventually turn good?

The point is the journey, not the destination. Just because something didn’t have a specific payoff doesn’t mean the emotional investment was any less.