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The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released) — Page 249

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Anakin Starkiller said:
Yes, there is a through-line, but Carrie Fisher’s death is irrelevant. Leia’s role in the trilogy has always been fairly minor, and her role in DotF could have easily been rewritten around the footage they had. Lucasfilm clearly had a problem with the script itself. I’m inclined to believe it’s the way it handled Kylo.

I don’t think Fisher’s death is irrelevant, There was a strong insistence on figuring out some way to keep her character in the story despite the fact the actor had died. I do agree the handling of Kylo was also a very big problem, but even bigger was the apparently not-up-for-debate guideline that you couldn’t write Leia out of the movie. It simply wasn’t an option. And it should have been. The movie was apparently begun (and re-begun) with Leia being responsible for whatever redemption Kylo was going to have. At no point did anyone even try to concieve of a story where Leia wasn’t in it, or that Kylo wasn’t redeemed. Removing huge, story-changing options like that from the storytelling process really hurt the movie’s potential.

On-topic: Has there been any discussion about moving the Chewie & the Boys chess scene to after Rey says “Rey Skywalker” but before she gets back on the ship? Because I still think that jump cut where the suns literally shift across the screen is not good. Unless that jump cut isn’t in the movie anymore (I haven’t seen the most recent workprint). I think you need a scene placed in there so it doesn’t look like a mistake in editing just occurred. Because that’s what it looks like now. I remember someone earlier saying “it suggests the passage of time” but it doesn’t really do that. It just looks like teleporting suns. That’s not suggesting anything clearly other than “we cut something out of here and didn’t put anything back.”

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 (Edited)

The sun change is jarring, but I don’t think the chess scene works there. It would be a random cutaway that interrupts the flow of the scene in an incredibly awkward way, far worse than the suns changing position.

Personally, my interpretation of the suns in the BB-8 scene is that it’s just a mirage.

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Broom Kid said:
On-topic: Has there been any discussion about moving the Chewie & the Boys chess scene to after Rey says “Rey Skywalker” but before she gets back on the ship? Because I still think that jump cut where the suns literally shift across the screen is not good. Unless that jump cut isn’t in the movie anymore (I haven’t seen the most recent workprint). I think you need a scene placed in there so it doesn’t look like a mistake in editing just occurred. Because that’s what it looks like now. I remember someone earlier saying “it suggests the passage of time” but it doesn’t really do that. It just looks like teleporting suns. That’s not suggesting anything clearly other than “we cut something out of here and didn’t put anything back.”

If nothing else works one could always try a simple crossfade (any editor’s last resort 😉 ). Not the most elegant solution, sure, but it’ll probably soften the blow.

edit: Maybe a color-adjusted shot of the Falcon (taken from one of the previous movies) might fit in?
edit2: There probably isn’t a suitable scene, though. At least I can’t think of any where it’d be just the Falcon taking off or hovering in the air, without some wild background action and/or camera movement going on.

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The suns change position in almost the same way in the theatrical, so if this is jarring it isn’t because of what we did here. I am fairly certain it’s the same footage of the suns even.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Broom Kid said:

Anakin Starkiller said:
Yes, there is a through-line, but Carrie Fisher’s death is irrelevant. Leia’s role in the trilogy has always been fairly minor, and her role in DotF could have easily been rewritten around the footage they had. Lucasfilm clearly had a problem with the script itself. I’m inclined to believe it’s the way it handled Kylo.

I don’t think Fisher’s death is irrelevant, There was a strong insistence on figuring out some way to keep her character in the story despite the fact the actor had died. I do agree the handling of Kylo was also a very big problem, but even bigger was the apparently not-up-for-debate guideline that you couldn’t write Leia out of the movie. It simply wasn’t an option. And it should have been. The movie was apparently begun (and re-begun) with Leia being responsible for whatever redemption Kylo was going to have. At no point did anyone even try to concieve of a story where Leia wasn’t in it, or that Kylo wasn’t redeemed. Removing huge, story-changing options like that from the storytelling process really hurt the movie’s potential.

On-topic: Has there been any discussion about moving the Chewie & the Boys chess scene to after Rey says “Rey Skywalker” but before she gets back on the ship? Because I still think that jump cut where the suns literally shift across the screen is not good. Unless that jump cut isn’t in the movie anymore (I haven’t seen the most recent workprint). I think you need a scene placed in there so it doesn’t look like a mistake in editing just occurred. Because that’s what it looks like now. I remember someone earlier saying “it suggests the passage of time” but it doesn’t really do that. It just looks like teleporting suns. That’s not suggesting anything clearly other than “we cut something out of here and didn’t put anything back.”

I think the fact that the audio of the Falcon starts in the preceding shot is enough to suggest that we’re cutting to a bit later (a technique called a “J” cut). It doesn’t come across as a jump cut to me.

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Hal 9000 said:

Burbin, you’re absolutely right. Thanks! I’ll see about one of the other two line options for that.

I know you said you didn’t want to cut and mix the KoR dialogue, but I do feel “Palpatine wants the girl alive. Kill the rest” was the strongest line of the three options, and maybe you could consider taking “Kylo Ren” from “Kylo Ren’s little pet is close” or another unused line to replace “Palpatine”, making it “Kylo Ren wants the girl alive. Kill the rest”.

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 (Edited)

I am not too certain of the Sun criticism since … it’s exactly the same in the theatrical release.

Why is it suddenly jarring if it’s EXACTLY the same … but instead of seeing BB8 and Rey standing, we see the falcon fly off. Take a look:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo2pjiwh8pk

So nothing has been altered to adjust timing or the sun position. Does it only seem “less” jarring if we see the two stand in front of the suns … even though we saw how drastically different the two sun’s locations were literally a moment ago?

The falcon scene makes a whole lot more sense for the suns’ new position since there is obviously some time between the suns’ first position and then the falcon flying off since it naturally takes time for Rey and BB8 to enter the falcon, as opposed to Rey just taking a few steps close to BB8.

Do NOT self-destruct!

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 (Edited)

Speaking of the ending, the music transition into “Directed by JJ Abrams” still feels weird. I know it’s been discussed a lot, so sorry if it’s already been decided upon and everything. It’s, like, abrupt and there is no flow or the usual “jolt” feeling you get when the credits roll. It just feels jarring and jump cut in the audio. I’m sure it’s incredibly difficult to get a proper timing with what appears to be two seperate audio tracks, but it’s just not feeling right.

Could it just be because of how we’re hearing the music as the Falcon is slowly entering hyperspace? Is the timing just all out of whack for my liking?

The best ice cream is Cloud City ice cream!

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It’s not jarring. It’s jar jarring. Which is the opposite of jarring. If you’re a gungan.

heil palpatine.

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Hal 9000 said:

The suns change position in almost the same way in the theatrical, so if this is jarring it isn’t because of what we did here. I am fairly certain it’s the same footage of the suns even.

It’s a bad cut in the theatrical, too - the only thing that makes it slightly better is that there are figures in the foreground also blipping into existence so theres’ something else drawing attention to the fact the suns are just blinking around the screen. But it’s a bad cut either way. Again, it’s not “suggesting” anything, it’s just jump-cutting celestial bodies across the screen. if there’s a way to cut to something else before cutting back it’ll play better than just BLIP.

I don’t think cutting to the inside of the ship you just heard starting up for a fun moment as Rey and BB-8 leave frame, suggesting new adventures on the way, and then cutting back outside to that ship flying through frame is “random.” I think it honestly makes spatial and storytelling sense to do that. “Rey Skywalker” - They leave frame on the suns. Cut to the inside of the ship you just heard start up. Cut back to the suns, now in different position, a short time later - ship flies through that frame. Time has passed, the feeling of “they’re off on new adventures” is underlined, and iris out.

But I do think the current (and original) cut is just flat-out not good, in either original or fan-edited form right now.

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Icecream2448 said:

Speaking of the ending, the music transition into “Directed by JJ Abrams” still feels weird. I know it’s been discussed a lot, so sorry if it’s already been decided upon and everything. It’s, like, abrupt and there is no flow or the usual “jolt” feeling you get when the credits roll. It just feels jarring and jump cut in the audio. I’m sure it’s incredibly difficult to get a proper timing with what appears to be two seperate audio tracks, but it’s just not feeling right.

Could it just be because of how we’re hearing the music as the Falcon is slowly entering hyperspace? Is the timing just all out of whack for my liking?

+1, I was a strong supporter of letting the music play out a little more because the timing cuts in perfectly.

https://vimeo.com/425012849

The Skywalker Saga Viewing Order:
I: C.O.D. | II: T.A.S. | III: L.O.E. AE
IV: Revisited | V: Revisited | VI: Revisited
VII: Restructured | VIII: Rekindled | IX: Ascendant

This is the way.

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 (Edited)

Broom Kid said:

I don’t think cutting to the inside of the ship you just heard starting up for a fun moment as Rey and BB-8 leave frame, suggesting new adventures on the way, and then cutting back outside to that ship flying through frame is “random.” I think it honestly makes spatial and storytelling sense to do that. “Rey Skywalker” - They leave frame on the suns. Cut to the inside of the ship you just heard start up. Cut back to the suns, now in different position, a short time later - ship flies through that frame. Time has passed, the feeling of “they’re off on new adventures” is underlined, and iris out.

Maybe find some kind of unused shot of Rey and maybe BB-8 in the cockpit to make this sort of thing work? I dunno.

The best ice cream is Cloud City ice cream!

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DZ-330 said:

Icecream2448 said:

Speaking of the ending, the music transition into “Directed by JJ Abrams” still feels weird. I know it’s been discussed a lot, so sorry if it’s already been decided upon and everything. It’s, like, abrupt and there is no flow or the usual “jolt” feeling you get when the credits roll. It just feels jarring and jump cut in the audio. I’m sure it’s incredibly difficult to get a proper timing with what appears to be two seperate audio tracks, but it’s just not feeling right.

Could it just be because of how we’re hearing the music as the Falcon is slowly entering hyperspace? Is the timing just all out of whack for my liking?

+1, I was a strong supporter of letting the music play out a little more because the timing cuts in perfectly.

https://vimeo.com/425012849

That feels better. Still not 100% perfect, but that feels like it’s as far as you can take it into perfecting the transition. Or maybe not!

The best ice cream is Cloud City ice cream!

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The beginning can have more of the Skywalker theme lead in. However, I like how it starts with Rey’s theme but ends with just a few notes of the good 'ol Star Wars theme. Gives it that bittersweet ending this saga should have had.

The Skywalker Saga Viewing Order:
I: C.O.D. | II: T.A.S. | III: L.O.E. AE
IV: Revisited | V: Revisited | VI: Revisited
VII: Restructured | VIII: Rekindled | IX: Ascendant

This is the way.

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Agreed on that. It’s just the transition that concerns me.

The best ice cream is Cloud City ice cream!

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 (Edited)

Broom Kid said:

Hal 9000 said:

The suns change position in almost the same way in the theatrical, so if this is jarring it isn’t because of what we did here. I am fairly certain it’s the same footage of the suns even.

It’s a bad cut in the theatrical, too - the only thing that makes it slightly better is that there are figures in the foreground also blipping into existence so theres’ something else drawing attention to the fact the suns are just blinking around the screen. But it’s a bad cut either way. Again, it’s not “suggesting” anything, it’s just jump-cutting celestial bodies across the screen. if there’s a way to cut to something else before cutting back it’ll play better than just BLIP.

Right, this is what I’ve tried to explain before: BB-8’s movement makes the transition smoother and the suns act as background elements instead of being the main point of attention (at least until the Falcon arrives):

Blueffalump said:

In the original version this edit works, because a) Rey’s silhoutte is in front of the first sun, making it different enough composition-wise from the shot before and b) BB-8 carries his momentum from one shot into the next one by rolling in front of the other sun, so the suns end up giving both characters a halo…

edit: My point is: With all these elements removed, the cut is more obvious. It would be great, albeit not easy, to find a way to compensate for that, while keeping the mood of the scene intact.

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DZ-330 said:

Icecream2448 said:

Speaking of the ending, the music transition into “Directed by JJ Abrams” still feels weird. I know it’s been discussed a lot, so sorry if it’s already been decided upon and everything. It’s, like, abrupt and there is no flow or the usual “jolt” feeling you get when the credits roll. It just feels jarring and jump cut in the audio. I’m sure it’s incredibly difficult to get a proper timing with what appears to be two seperate audio tracks, but it’s just not feeling right.

Could it just be because of how we’re hearing the music as the Falcon is slowly entering hyperspace? Is the timing just all out of whack for my liking?

+1, I was a strong supporter of letting the music play out a little more because the timing cuts in perfectly.

https://vimeo.com/425012849

I like this. Also, Ben’s ghost looks cool alongside leia and Luke for this mockup!

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natm said:

DZ-330 said:

Icecream2448 said:

Speaking of the ending, the music transition into “Directed by JJ Abrams” still feels weird. I know it’s been discussed a lot, so sorry if it’s already been decided upon and everything. It’s, like, abrupt and there is no flow or the usual “jolt” feeling you get when the credits roll. It just feels jarring and jump cut in the audio. I’m sure it’s incredibly difficult to get a proper timing with what appears to be two separate audio tracks, but it’s just not feeling right.

Could it just be because of how we’re hearing the music as the Falcon is slowly entering hyperspace? Is the timing just all out of whack for my liking?

+1, I was a strong supporter of letting the music play out a little more because the timing cuts in perfectly.

https://vimeo.com/425012849

I like this. Also, Ben’s ghost looks cool alongside leia and Luke for this mockup!

I wish it could be like this of using actual movement rather than using a still image of Adam Driver’s head on Luke’s farmboy outfit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlnRy7g--tU

Noah Lawson

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nl0428 said:

natm said:

DZ-330 said:

Icecream2448 said:

Speaking of the ending, the music transition into “Directed by JJ Abrams” still feels weird. I know it’s been discussed a lot, so sorry if it’s already been decided upon and everything. It’s, like, abrupt and there is no flow or the usual “jolt” feeling you get when the credits roll. It just feels jarring and jump cut in the audio. I’m sure it’s incredibly difficult to get a proper timing with what appears to be two separate audio tracks, but it’s just not feeling right.

Could it just be because of how we’re hearing the music as the Falcon is slowly entering hyperspace? Is the timing just all out of whack for my liking?

+1, I was a strong supporter of letting the music play out a little more because the timing cuts in perfectly.

https://vimeo.com/425012849

I like this. Also, Ben’s ghost looks cool alongside leia and Luke for this mockup!

I wish it could be like this of using actual movement rather than using a still image of Adam Driver’s head on Luke’s farmboy outfit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlnRy7g--tU

I remember seeing that a while ago, this also looks good!

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Jon’s force ghosts made it to reddit! A little upsetting he’s not getting more credit but it was a nice surprise to see his edit pop up on my feed.

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 (Edited)

I have a little nitpick with the force ghost scene in the final battle in the movie, am I the only one who thinks it would make more sense to have Sebastian Shaw, the original actor who played Anakin in the ending of ROTJ, instead of Hayden Christensen? We have an old Obi Wan, and old Luke, but Anakin who is the grandfather of Luke is still young, it’s just a little nitpick in my part, it doesn’t work that much for me, other than that, the edit and concept of that scene is still fantastic, and I’m a big fan of the work that has been done by the fan edit community, it’s fantastic!

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moripro2311 said:

I have a little nitpick with the force ghost scene in the final battle in the movie, am I the only one who thinks it would make more sense to have Sebastian Shaw, the original actor who played Anakin in the ending of ROTJ, instead of Hayden Christensen? We have an old Obi Wan, and old Luke, but Anakin who is the grandfather of Luke is still young, it’s just a little nitpick in my part, it doesn’t work that much for me, other than that, the edit and concept of that scene is still fantastic, and I’m a big fan of the work that has been done by the fan edit community, it’s fantastic!

Between Hayden being in the RotJ scene (canonically) and only having the one weird smile for Shaw… This seems like an unrealistically difficult nitpick.

It’s also not Shaw’s voice in the scene, but Christensen’s.

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JakeRyan17 said:

moripro2311 said:

I have a little nitpick with the force ghost scene in the final battle in the movie, am I the only one who thinks it would make more sense to have Sebastian Shaw, the original actor who played Anakin in the ending of ROTJ, instead of Hayden Christensen? We have an old Obi Wan, and old Luke, but Anakin who is the grandfather of Luke is still young, it’s just a little nitpick in my part, it doesn’t work that much for me, other than that, the edit and concept of that scene is still fantastic, and I’m a big fan of the work that has been done by the fan edit community, it’s fantastic!

Between Hayden being in the RotJ scene (canonically) and only having the one weird smile for Shaw… This seems like an unrealistically difficult nitpick.

It’s also not Shaw’s voice in the scene, but Christensen’s.

I’d actually love to see a version of it with Shaw if it could be pulled off, but I agree that it’s likely unrealistic and can live with Hayden (I believe he’s slightly aged up anyway, isn’t he?)

I still would like to see jonh or someone else take a stab at fixing Hayden in ROTJ to be similarly slightly aged and to look more like he belongs (with ROTS style robes and probably different Hayden takes replacing the awkward ones George used). I’m not inherently against the idea of an alternate Hayden version of the ROTJ ghosts, I just think the official version looks like dogshit (much like the official McDiarmid Emperor in ESB, which Adywan thankfully fixed).

a trolling bantha

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moripro2311 said:

I have a little nitpick with the force ghost scene in the final battle in the movie, am I the only one who thinks it would make more sense to have Sebastian Shaw, the original actor who played Anakin in the ending of ROTJ, instead of Hayden Christensen? We have an old Obi Wan, and old Luke, but Anakin who is the grandfather of Luke is still young, it’s just a little nitpick in my part, it doesn’t work that much for me, other than that, the edit and concept of that scene is still fantastic, and I’m a big fan of the work that has been done by the fan edit community, it’s fantastic!

Jonh had something in the works (as requested) when I spoke with him a couple months ago. The little work in progress he was working on looked great. Luckily, Anakin is just standing there still in the scene, so we could use still images for it. I hope Shaw gets the Star Wars justice he deserves!

My argument for it not being canon is… Obi Wan gets both voice and physical spirit mixed up with Ewan and Alec. So why can’t we have the voice of Hayden and the appearance of Sebastian Shaw? 😁

The best ice cream is Cloud City ice cream!