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The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released) — Page 248

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NFBisms said:

Having to write that up is literally the epitome of the problem btw

Yeah, I really wish this movie was delayed to December 2020 and gave the production another year of development. The movie was clearly rushed from start to finish in 2 years and 3 months was the entire production. (Sep. 2017-dec.2019) it suffers from the production losing a year or two of development as trevorrow’s firing left them with a smaller production schedule, leading to some issues with the story and script that could’ve been fleshed out more had they been given another year in development/production

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 (Edited)

Hi everyone!

I’m new here, so let me give you a quick introduction:

Long ago, in a galaxy far far away, I’ve done some “professional” video editing and a bit of After Effects animation. So when I saw The Last Jedi I remembered my past life and realized that yes, with a bit of trimming here and there, this could be turned into a decent movie. So I made a rough cut, just for myself. But I became frustrated with the process, since I had neither the appropriate hardware nor a software I felt comfortable with. Luckily I found out that others had been attempting to do the same. And so one day I stumbled across Hal’s edit of said movie. With the exception of THAT milking shot, which I would’ve cut, and the ironing joke, which I would’ve kept, this was exactly what I had in mind. Quickly I became enamoured with the other Hal cuts, especially the ones for prequels.

For those wonderful versions I want to thank all of you, Hal and the community who’ve helped to make them possible!

Fast forward to the The Rise of Skywalker. There’s some good stuff in there, but I found it mostly overblown and exhausting. So after watching it once I did not feel the need to do so again. However, I was aware that this community was hard at work trying to improve TROS. So I casually checked in to see how far along you’ve come. Finally I gave the 4th workprint a go. And while I don’t have much of a vivid memory of the original version (it’s mostly a blur), I still can say with confidence that this new edit flows much better. Good job everyone!

Personally, I don’t like how most of Leia’s shots go into uncanny-valley-territory, not to mention the Luke and Leia flashback, which kinda works, just until their faces are shown, ugh. But I suppose it wouldn’t be easy to make the movie work without those shots?

There was one shot in this edit however that I found odd, namely the very last one. I immediately realized that this felt a bit jarring. So I watched the original version and I have to say that I found the latter far superior. The main problem with the new version is the edit that happens between the last two shots. We’ve got BB-8 rolling off the screen with the two suns in the background mirroring his shape (“it’s like poetry”). The next shot starts kinda similarly but now the two suns are bit further appart. It’s basically a jump cut. In the original version this edit works, because a) Rey’s silhoutte is in front of the first sun, making it different enough composition-wise from the shot before and b) BB-8 carries his momentum from one shot into the next one by rolling in front of the other sun, so the suns end up giving both characters a halo (again: “poetry”, hehe). It’s not subtle, but a it is a very beautiful shot.

I know a lot of effort went into the new version and I’ve got nothing but respect for that - from a technical standpoint it looks really good. But at the same time this feels like a “Special Edition”-situation, like a too apparent over-correction by using cgi where it wasn’t exactly needed. I also prefer the music-only approach of the original, while the added sound fx break the atmosphere a bit for me. The original shot is also much calmer, which I found more fitting for the end of a trilogy (or even a whole saga). And this being the last shot I think it carries more weight than most other shots in the movie. Which is why I’d like to encourage you to “kill your darling” in this instance and go back to the original shot. (Or maybe you insert a different shot between the two, if there even is one that feels appropriate)

Forgive me, you’ve probably been through all of this already, but what was the reason for this change in the first place? My guess is that you wanted to convey to the viewer that Rey does not stay on Tatooine? In that case I will admit that the newer version doesn’t leave any doubts about that. On the other hand, in the original it is never stated or shown explicitly that Rey has intentions to stay. She very well could just be taking a well-earned break, enjoying the view, before continuing to do whatever she wants to do next. It leaves enough room for the viewers to decide for themselves.

Sorry for the long post. I just felt it would be rude to come in here complaining without a proper introduction. Also, I know the chances of me of changing your mind(s) are pretty slim, especially this late in the process. And if you disagree with my criticism, I will still consider this project a damn fine effort. 😃

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 (Edited)

Sorry, but I feel like it’s too late for us to change our minds about the new Tatooine shot. It’s an edit that was first thought of months ago. The hard work of two amazing VFX people on here was used to make the shot, and in my opinion it really improves the movie by removing any doubts about whether Rey is going to stay on Tatooine. It also gives the saga an ending that fits the adventure spirit of the western movies it’s based on, with the heroes riding off into the sunset in the last shot of the movie. I’d hate to see it removed, since it’s one of my favorite changes in this version.

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StarkillerAG said:

Sorry, but I feel like it’s too late for us to change our minds about the new Tatooine shot. It’s an edit that was first thought of months ago. The hard work of two amazing VFX people on here was used to make the shot, and in my opinion it really improves the movie by removing any doubts about whether Rey is going to stay on Tatooine. It also gives the saga an ending that fits the adventure spirit of the western movies it’s based on, with the heroes riding off into the sunset in the last shot of the movie. I’d hate to see it removed, since it’s one of my favorite changes in this version.

+1

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StarkillerAG said:

Sorry, but I feel like it’s too late for us to change our minds about the new Tatooine shot. It’s an edit that was first thought of months ago. The hard work of two amazing VFX people on here was used to make the shot, and in my opinion it really improves the movie by removing any doubts about whether Rey is going to stay on Tatooine. It also gives the saga an ending that fits the adventure spirit of the western movies it’s based on, with the heroes riding off into the sunset in the last shot of the movie. I’d hate to see it removed, since it’s one of my favorite changes in this version.

Thanks for your perspective. I do get the western motif, it’s neat. I simply feel that the original ending shot is superior in terms of aesthetics and tone. I’d like to find out if others here feel similarly and I think it is a discussion worth having. Maybe you’ve all had this exact conversation before and in that case I apologize as I don’t want to belabor the point.

Trust me, even though I’ve never done any real 3D modelling/animation, there was enough camerawork, editing an 2D animation that I can relate to all of the hard work that must have gone into these few seconds. But I’ve also had situations in which I had put countless hours into making something work and then coming to the realization that it would be better to do it all over or to cut it completely.

Of course it’s always possible for someone to make an alternate version.

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Blueffalump, thank you for joining the discussion and I appreciate your comments about the other 9000 edits. I don’t blame you for finding this thread unwieldy and jumping just straight into the workprint.

I also appreciate your feedback about the final shot, not having been enamored with it previously while it was being developed and having apparent impartiality to it regardless of whether it was studio or fan made.

I’ve gotten much more positive feedback about it than negative, and have come to love it myself, too. I never liked the original shot, less so even after learning that Rey was composited in from a shot on Pasaana. She looks thin, unnatural. I do enjoy the combination of Poe, Finn, and Chewie on the Falcon as Rey heads to Tatooine and then the main gang jets out. I don’t think our goal at any point was to show that Rey wasn’t planning to stay on Tatooine per se, but it does help make that clear. My favorite aspect is the musical alteration, rather than reusing TFA’s ending sore and the Force theme for the third time in a row.

Bottom line is that I’m not about to undo this change, though your visceral, honest feedback is helpful in vetting it.

And that’s… a pretty creepy icon. Hope you stick around!

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Hal 9000 said:

Blueffalump, thank you for joining the discussion and I appreciate your comments about the other 9000 edits. I don’t blame you for finding this thread unwieldy and jumping just straight into the workprint.

I also appreciate your feedback about the final shot, not having been enamored with it previously while it was being developed and having apparent impartiality to it regardless of whether it was studio or fan made.

I’ve gotten much more positive feedback about it than negative, and have come to love it myself, too. I never liked the original shot, less so even after learning that Rey was composited in from a shot on Pasaana. She looks thin, unnatural. I do enjoy the combination of Poe, Finn, and Chewie on the Falcon as Rey heads to Tatooine and then the main gang jets out. I don’t think our goal at any point was to show that Rey wasn’t planning to stay on Tatooine per se, but it does help make that clear. My favorite aspect is the musical alteration, rather than reusing TFA’s ending sore and the Force theme for the third time in a row.

Bottom line is that I’m not about to undo this change, though your visceral, honest feedback is helpful in vetting it.

And that’s… a pretty creepy icon. Hope you stick around!

Well, it was worth a shot, but I understand.

Thanks for the warm welcome, Hal! About my icon: That kinda… happened, one thing led to the other and… bottom line is: I’m not quite as creepy in real life 😉

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I’m afraid it doesn’t work like that. We all look and act identically to our icons IRL.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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 (Edited)

And there I though I could fool you…

edit: It’s not my fault, though. With a father being that intimidating Grand Admiral, how could anyone not end up being creepy?

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You can’t fool people on the internet!

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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Guess my thoughts betray me, huh.

Fine then, no more fooling internet people, especially the Force-sensitive kind.

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I’m sorry to keep banging on this drum Hal, but the Duel of the Fates cue during the Death Star II fight still feels very tacked on and out of place to me. It doesn’t really seem to add anything to the scene, in fact the sedate nature of the cue kind of detracts from the tension overall, and from the following music that’s in the theatrical version.

Just like in ESB during Vader and Luke’s fight, much of which had score that went unused, it makes the appearance of the music when Kylo emerges from the waves all the more impactful and ratchets up the tension in the fight. A possible compromise could be to fade out the music after the crescendo where Rey does her backflip, so that the Final Saber Duel cue can have its entrance, but even then that crescendo in the DotF cue doesn’t match that moment particularly well.

I’m not sure what other people’s thoughts on this are but I’d be keen to hear them, apologies if I have missed a bunch of discussion on the topic already.

Star Wars: The Last Skywalker Awakens (a sequel trilogy mega-edit)

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bbghost said:

I’m sorry to keep banging on this drum Hal, but the Duel of the Fates cue during the Death Star II fight still feels very tacked on and out of place to me. It doesn’t really seem to add anything to the scene, in fact the sedate nature of the cue kind of detracts from the tension overall, and from the following music that’s in the theatrical version.

Just like in ESB during Vader and Luke’s fight, much of which had score that went unused, it makes the appearance of the music when Kylo emerges from the waves all the more impactful and ratchets up the tension in the fight. A possible compromise could be to fade out the music after the crescendo where Rey does her backflip, so that the Final Saber Duel cue can have its entrance, but even then that crescendo in the DotF cue doesn’t match that moment particularly well.

I’m not sure what other people’s thoughts on this are but I’d be keen to hear them, apologies if I have missed a bunch of discussion on the topic already.

+1 (I know this has been discussed at length before, but I agree with most of the above)

I think the current work print is a massive improvement, but musically that section is just low energy, and the prominence of DotF in the current mix almost makes it sound like an afterthought or error.

bbghost, I think the main constraints were not wanting to lose the existing sound effects and environmental mix, and the overall length of the existing footage. I really, really want DotF to FIT properly in this scene, but other than Hal (or somebody else, he’s busy) mocking up some cuts of other options featuring the Episode I or III score, it seems to me the best option may be to remove it and go with something closer to theatrical version.

It’s definitely not bad in any sense, but that mix mellowness, especially in what I can detect as the mix’s center channel, just isn’t completely hitting it for me. (Again, I really really want it to work.)

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Hal actually removed the added music after Rey’s jump since he made his latest workprint. It was a scrapped idea for the latest workprint, that ended up not working. The earlier Duel of the Fates reference is still there, and it fits much better.

But I do agree that the added music is much too quiet in the sound mix. That’s actually a problem throughout the edit, whenever scenes are rescored. If Hal could turn up the music just a notch on those scenes, that would be great.

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Right, I had recently removed the second chunk of the DOTF during the duel. So hopefully that’s a better overall compromise.

And I’ll go through and check the added musical pieces. I would rather have them, DOTF especially, be subtle but not intrude than to grab you and potentially not work. I know I have the 3PO and R2 music a little on the quiet side, because I don’t think prominent music is right for that moment.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Hal 9000 said:

On Kijimi, the KoR step into frame and the apparent leader says, “Palpatine wants the girl alive. Kill the rest.”

Since no one has mentioned it I need to point out that when we’re on Kijimi Palpatine still (supposedly) wants Rey dead. And during the force bond duel Kylo implies he sent Ochi to kill her. “Why would he want to kill a child?” etc.

The reveal that he wants her alive comes long after, when Finn talks to D-O on Ajan Kloss, and he discovers Ochi was actually supposed to take Rey to Palpatine alive, which for some reason we’re supposed to take as Palpatine still wanting her alive(?).

And this idea is only cemented once Rey reaches Exegol and Palpatine says “I never wanted you dead, I wanted you here”.

Point is that line doesn’t make sense at that point in the story, Palpatine is supposed to want Rey dead, while Kylo wants to turn her, and the Knights of Ren are working for Kylo, not Palpatine, he is their Leader, they only turn to Palpatine when Ben “betrays” them by turning to the light.

“Kylo wants the girl alive, kill the rest” would make much more sense at that point in the story. It doesn’t spoil the “reveal”, it works with what Kylo says in Passana, “I don’t want to have to kill you”, and it would be an opportunity to show Kylo’s bond with his Knights, as he trusts them enough to tell them his real plan, while he tells the people at the board room they’re going “hunting for the scavenger”. This would add more tragedy to their eventual duel, giving it a real sense of betrayal.

“Palpatine wants the girl alive” works to the opposite effect, making it seem the KoR are privy to more information than Kylo, since he believes Palpatine wants her dead, so it makes it seem like they had a direct link to Palpatine and were working on their own, always ready or planning to turn on Kylo. I don’t like this personally, we’ve seen enough bad guys plotting to betray their Masters, it would be more interesting to have the Leader betray his Knights, a bittersweet tragedy that results from his turn to the light.

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Burbin said:

Hal 9000 said:

On Kijimi, the KoR step into frame and the apparent leader says, “Palpatine wants the girl alive. Kill the rest.”

Since no one has mentioned it I need to point out that when we’re on Kijimi Palpatine still (supposedly) wants Rey dead. And during the force bond duel Kylo implies he sent Ochi to kill her. “Why would he want to kill a child?” etc.

The reveal that he wants her alive comes long after, when Finn talks to D-O on Ajan Kloss, and he discovers Ochi was actually supposed to take Rey to Palpatine alive, which for some reason we’re supposed to take as Palpatine still wanting her alive(?).

And this idea is only cemented once Rey reaches Exegol and Palpatine says “I never wanted you dead, I wanted you here”.

Point is that line doesn’t make sense at that point in the story, Palpatine is supposed to want Rey dead, while Kylo wants to turn her, and the Knights of Ren are working for Kylo, not Palpatine, he is their Leader, they only turn to Palpatine when Ben “betrays” them by turning to the light.

“Kylo wants the girl alive, kill the rest” would make much more sense at that point in the story. It doesn’t spoil the “reveal”, it works with what Kylo says in Passana, “I don’t want to have to kill you”, and it would be an opportunity to show Kylo’s bond with his Knights, as he trusts them enough to tell them his real plan, while he tells the people at the board room they’re going “hunting for the scavenger”. This would add more tragedy to their eventual duel, giving it a real sense of betrayal.

“Palpatine wants the girl alive” works to the opposite effect, making it seem the KoR are privy to more information than Kylo, since he believes Palpatine wants her dead, so it makes it seem like they had a direct link to Palpatine and were working on their own, always ready or planning to turn on Kylo. I don’t like this personally, we’ve seen enough bad guys plotting to betray their Masters, it would be more interesting to have the Leader betray his Knights, a bittersweet tragedy that results from his turn to the light.

Crap…

TPM ROTJ ESB TFA TLJ TROS ROTS ANH SOLO RO ATOC
TFA:R https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/TFA-A-Gentle-Restructure-Released/id/50117
TLJ:R https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/The-Last-Jedi-Rekindled-Released-V3-UPDATE/id/61939
TROS:A https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/The-Rise-of-Skywalker-Ascendant-WIP/id/71835/page/1

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Burbin, you’re absolutely right. Thanks! I’ll see about one of the other two line options for that.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Burbin said:

“Kylo wants the girl alive, kill the rest” would make much more sense at that point in the story. It doesn’t spoil the “reveal”, it works with what Kylo says in Passana, “I don’t want to have to kill you”, and it would be an opportunity to show Kylo’s bond with his Knights, as he trusts them enough to tell them his real plan, while he tells the people at the board room they’re going “hunting for the scavenger”. This would add more tragedy to their eventual duel, giving it a real sense of betrayal.

“Palpatine wants the girl alive” works to the opposite effect, making it seem the KoR are privy to more information than Kylo, since he believes Palpatine wants her dead, so it makes it seem like they had a direct link to Palpatine and were working on their own, always ready or planning to turn on Kylo. I don’t like this personally, we’ve seen enough bad guys plotting to betray their Masters, it would be more interesting to have the Leader betray his Knights, a bittersweet tragedy that results from his turn to the light.

Damn, really good points. +1

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Yeah, Trevorrow’s initial script for TROS was written more than a year before the release of TLJ, and the same applies to TLJ as well. Watching the first two movies and then reading Trevorrow’s first draft, there’s a clear through-line in the entire trilogy. It’s just that Carrie Fisher’s death threw a spanner in the works.

Yes, there is a through-line, but Carrie Fisher’s death is irrelevant. Leia’s role in the trilogy has always been fairly minor, and her role in DotF could have easily been rewritten around the footage they had. Lucasfilm clearly had a problem with the script itself. I’m inclined to believe it’s the way it handled Kylo.

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jarbear said:

Hal 9000 said:

A hallmark of Star Wars is a constantly changing sense of continuity. There’s nothing smooth about it. The EU are nanobots trying to heal somebody constantly being injured in all manner of ways. You can appreciate the effort and do some of it in your own head, but the ST renewed the franchise’s commitment to never planning ahead and constantly retconning everything.

Applauds loudly

Who cares about “canon” when doing fan edits. Part of fan edits is to fix issues. So let’s be real, even before Disney stepped in with their “Let’s not plan anything and see what happens” approach Star Wars cannon had some blaring holes and inconsistencies. And no, I don’t want to turn this into a general discussion thread but the idea of adhering to “canon” is silly and not going to happen with this edit.

Plus, just for fun and giggles, to adhere to “canon” then we would have to remove everything about Leia and training with Luke, since does not train AT ALL to be a Jedi in the canon book Bloodlines. (Just involved in politics) Boy … that’ll really mess up with the last part of the movie removing that part AND Leia’s lightsaber for the sake of canon.

See why adhering to “canon” is silly?

I just want to point out that Leia’s training had ended years before Bloodline takes place, and it doesn’t actually ever say that she recieved no instruction from Luke, just that she’d chosen to take the path of politics. In fact, when asked, she specifically dodges the question when asked in the book:

“If you have that ability, then I cannot imagine why you would not become a Jedi as well,” Tai-Lin finished. “Surely I’ve known few people who would make a finer Jedi Knight than you.” Leia inclined her head in gratitude for the compliment, but she could not answer right away, because she could not tell the full truth. The Force was too important a subject to be shared lightly, even with Tai-Lin, her ally and friend.

There are contradictions in the new canon, but this ain’t one of them.