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the SE films are all that are left!!!!

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I was brought to this planet to be hated by all so here goes nothing..."cant u people just be true star wars fans and b happy that the trilogy is out on DVD? dont any of u remember that lucas opted for the cellulite 35mm film stock back in '77?...CAUSE THAT IS ALL HE HAD!!! it was bound to go bad and fade...i mean Ep. IV was made almost 30 years ago...i went 2 see it when i was 2 yrs. old...be glad lucas doesnt wait till Ep. 3 hits the shelves...u ungreatful b-stards!!!"
"Try?...there is no try, there is only do...do or do not." - Jedi Master Yoda
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Ummm.....

I don't get your post.



Which end of the spectrum are we coming from here?

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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It has begun: Darth Meddler has started brainslug and flamethrower massproduction and is building up a massive army of followers whose mission is to crush this infamous rebellion against the destruction of the original theatrical cuts.

Samuel L. sez: "I dare you. I double dare you, say 'b-stards' one more god damn time!"

*orders another three clone armies and puts them under RRS's and Jay's command to help defend the values of the 'old republic'*
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The originals do excist. They are in the film archive. That Lucus has no access to. He can't destroy the movies. Though he won't release them since they are outdated.
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They are not outdated. He simply declared that they are, after years of preaching that they were timeless. Well perhaps one day he will 'digitally enhance' all his previous interviews and bring them up to 'canon'.
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hey MasterSkywalker how bout u give me my avatar back?
lol
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
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I really don't understand you people who say that a "True Fan" would just accept whatever Lucas decides to give them. Doesn't the fact that I want the films as they were PROVE that I am a "True Fan"? If I didn't CARE about what I bought, didn't care like you clearly don't care, and was willing to accept anything, no matter how different from the real film it was, and wasn't even aware of why it mattered, wouldn't I just be a consumer and not a fan at all, true or otherwise? The fact is that it is BECAUSE I am a fan that I am willing to wait, willing to boycott the SE's. And it has nothing to do with the quality of the picture. If all they were going to do was improve the picture and sound quality and repair the film that has "gone bad and faded", I would not be here. I would buy the DVD's the moment they were released. That isn't what were talking about here.
-Everyone is entitled to my opinion-
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I wouldn't consider the ignorant masses who don't give a rat's ass which version they buy to be "true fans" either. I agree completely with you Samatar. If blindly accepting what Lucas throws at us is what it means to be a "true fan", then count me out. I'll be a deviant fan who prefers the actual versions that made film history.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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hell i had a big rant coming on but just erased it all...
it was all just rage... lol

I hope Star Wars becomes one of those cult films classics which has just a small majority of faithful viewers...
i hate to be compared to those "true fans" who are nothing more than a big group of fan boys who like living in Lucas' ass!

"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
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A poll on theforce.net by true Star Wars fans who definutly know the differenced between the versions shows a majority prefer the Special Editions.
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Actually, Jimbo, this survey proves that the massive majority do not just want the SE's, they want both versions, which is exactly what everyone here is after. http://www.theforce.net/jedicouncil/surveys/survey240.shtml
-Everyone is entitled to my opinion-
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Thank you, Samatar. In case anyone hasn't said so, welcome. Your intellignet discussion is a refreshing change from the flamers who've been entering the forums as of late.

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

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More people voted Special Editions only then originals only.
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Yes, but how many voted for both, jimbo? BTW, Master Skywalker, what the heck is cellulite film stock? Film made out of women's thighs? Get your facts straight before posting; it only weakens your argument if you don't.

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

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"More people voted Special Editions only then originals only."

That really doesn't prove anything, apart from the fact that more people who liked the SE are so selfish that they don't want both versions released. I disagree with them, and I also disagree with those 8% who said that they only wanted the original version released and not the SE. Both those groups are wrong in my opinion. Lucas belongs to the 16% group; SO, it appears, does MasterSkywalker. Myself and most of the others on this site agree with the 70% majority. Which group do you agree with?
-Everyone is entitled to my opinion-
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I'm all about having anything available on DVD that was once good enough to be screened in movie theatres across the world, because it's the first format that is actually suited for archival purposes. We have such a rich culture and it would be a pity to lose all those 'first steps on the moon' for each era of film.

StarWars is such a nice example, because the original theatrical cuts are - as George Lucas stated himself for years - indeed timeless. Every time I watch them, I'm so totally awed by what they managed to pull off back then - most the SFX in ANH look so 'not 70s', imho. It's such a pity George Lucas is so ashamed of it.
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I would also like to see the demographic composition of members of that forum to see how far off of a truly representative sample of SW fans it is. Many of the fans of the original are not students or people who otherwise have time to haunt forums like you do Jimbo. We have jobs because we're all grown up. You know... "mature". Some of us, like me, have jobs that allow us to be in front of a computer all day to try and represent those who cannot. There are more fans of the OV OT out there than you know, Jimbo. The web is not representative of all populations in the world. Many people have lives and cannot frequent your stupid pro-SE forum.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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Quote

Originally posted by: Master Sifo-Dyas
I'm all about having anything available on DVD that was once good enough to be screened in movie theatres across the world, because it's the first format that is actually suited for archival purposes. We have such a rich culture and it would be a pity to lose all those 'first steps on the moon' for each era of film.

StarWars is such a nice example, because the original theatrical cuts are - as George Lucas stated himself for years - indeed timeless. Every time I watch them, I'm so totally awed by what they managed to pull off back then - most the SFX in ANH look so 'not 70s', imho. It's such a pity George Lucas is so ashamed of it.

I completely agree with you, MSD; it's all about preserving history.

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

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Originally posted by: jimbo
The originals do excist. They are in the film archive.


They're also available used on VHS and LD practically anywhere Lucas could care to look that stocks used movies. I have a collection on VHS (Full Screen, unfortunately... I wish they were widescreen). There's no basis for the arguement that the originals "no longer exist."

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AMEN TO BOSSK!!!

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More people voted Special Editions only then originals only.

Jimbo you wouldnt happen to be Comic Book guy from Simpsons would you?



Jimbo??
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
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No whining in my store.

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

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Master sipho-dias...
WHy do you think DVD is suited of archiving?
Do you know how bad the image qualitty is compared to a film original negative?
Would you ever want to take your photo negatives,scan them and put them
on a computer disk in form of small 720 pixel wide compressed files?

If you want to capture all the image data from a motion picture negative negative
you have to scann it at at least 4500dpi resolution which would give you
files of some 4000x3000 pixels (anamorphic format) and they would have to be uncompressed
unless you want fake skin tones in your prints.
That given,on a single DVD medium you could store maybe 30 frames or so.
This is a bit more than a second of film.

And besides film is still the best way to archive something,you never have to vory
about file conversion,new equipment etc.

The best way you can archive color negative film images is to make color separations.
Print the negative to 3 separate black and white films using color filters to
extract basic RGB chanels.
This is what most hollywood studios do these days. I'd say that about 90% of films
have these color separations made for archiving.
the sicret is in the fact that black and white film doesn't fade like color film.
And those separation film stocks are made from a polyester base that does not
decompose that fast.

A film printed on black and white color separations can last up to
500 years if stored at recomended temperatures of about 7 degree celsious
and 25% humidity.

Lucas made color separations of Star Wars in 70's but they were made on
old film stocks that had acetate base (can deteriorate and shrink).
Shrinking is a nightmare for such aplication,you have 3 roles
of the same scenes,and if the films don't match you get color problems.
New polyester films do not shring like that.
If Lucas made new color separations today the films would be preserved
for 100's of years.


By the way. It is not celluite or whatever.
It celluloid .
And you make it sound as if celluloid film base has anything to do with fading.
No. Old emulsions from the 70's have fading problems.
SW was shot on an very early version of eastman 5247. If Lucas waited
just for one or two years he would have minimum fading problems because
a newer version was introduced then (Alien,Empire strikes back,Blade runner)
which did not fade that fast.

And by the way.What do you mean that is all he had??
This was the best choice. No other imaging format could give such
qualitty. Not even today. THere is nothing today that can match film qualitty
in motion picture world. Episode 2 was shot on HD video,and that is why
it ended up looking like crap cinematographically. The resolution was
good enough for film prints,but if you could get a hold of a direct
answer print of any of the films from the old trilogy (or a 70mm print)
you would see that the qualitty is much better than that of episode2.
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Originally posted by: cubebox
Master sipho-dias...
WHy do you think DVD is suited of archiving?
Do you know how bad the image qualitty is compared to a film original negative?
Would you ever want to take your photo negatives,scan them and put them
on a computer disk in form of small 720 pixel wide compressed files?

If you want to capture all the image data from a motion picture negative negative
you have to scann it at at least 4500dpi resolution which would give you
files of some 4000x3000 pixels (anamorphic format) and they would have to be uncompressed
unless you want fake skin tones in your prints.
That given,on a single DVD medium you could store maybe 30 frames or so.
This is a bit more than a second of film.

And besides film is still the best way to archive something,you never have to vory
about file conversion,new equipment etc.

The best way you can archive color negative film images is to make color separations.
Print the negative to 3 separate black and white films using color filters to
extract basic RGB chanels.
This is what most hollywood studios do these days. I'd say that about 90% of films
have these color separations made for archiving.
the sicret is in the fact that black and white film doesn't fade like color film.
And those separation film stocks are made from a polyester base that does not
decompose that fast.

A film printed on black and white color separations can last up to
500 years if stored at recomended temperatures of about 7 degree celsious
and 25% humidity.

Lucas made color separations of Star Wars in 70's but they were made on
old film stocks that had acetate base (can deteriorate and shrink).
Shrinking is a nightmare for such aplication,you have 3 roles
of the same scenes,and if the films don't match you get color problems.
New polyester films do not shring like that.
If Lucas made new color separations today the films would be preserved
for 100's of years.


By the way. It is not celluite or whatever.
It celluloid .
And you make it sound as if celluloid film base has anything to do with fading.
No. Old emulsions from the 70's have fading problems.
SW was shot on an very early version of eastman 5247. If Lucas waited
just for one or two years he would have minimum fading problems because
a newer version was introduced then (Alien,Empire strikes back,Blade runner)
which did not fade that fast.

And by the way.What do you mean that is all he had??
This was the best choice. No other imaging format could give such
qualitty. Not even today. THere is nothing today that can match film qualitty
in motion picture world. Episode 2 was shot on HD video,and that is why
it ended up looking like crap cinematographically. The resolution was
good enough for film prints,but if you could get a hold of a direct
answer print of any of the films from the old trilogy (or a 70mm print)
you would see that the qualitty is much better than that of episode2.


First off, be careful who you attribute quotes to. It was the idiot who started this thread who made the cellulite error.
As for scanning @ 4500dpi, consider that most release prints only retain, @ best, resolution easily captured by a 2K scan. This is why most people cannot tell the difference between HD and film. Scnning @ 4500dpi is overkill and may, in fact expose certain elements (matte lines, wires) that were meant to be obscured by the reduction in resolution of a release print.
SW:ANH's biggest problem with film stock was that 5247 was a CRI (color reversal internegative) stock, which is extremely prone to fading. Not all the film was shot in 5247; it was only the effects shots that were handled this way, because it reduced the number of generations required in optical printing. As for shrinkage of the seps, Warner is using a new process (dubbed Ultra Resolution) that scans all the seps in, converts them to their appropriate colours, and uses computer technology to digitally correct shrinkage and prevent the fringing that results when shrunken seps are recombined. The first DVD released in this process was Singin' in the Rain:SE, and it has since been used for The Adventures of Robin Hood and will also be used for the upcoming release of Gone With the Wind. I don't see why LFL couldn't licence this to produce an all new answer print of ANH.
Finally, while 70mm is bigger, bigeer doesn't necessarily equal better. The 70mm prints were blow-ups and as such, bring a lot more grain into the image. The best way to see the OT is still in 35mm. Episode 2 may have looked less than stellar on the big screen, but it looked pretty amazing on DVD. That's because a digital-to-film conversion inevitably saps some of the colour and brightness from the image. If you'd seen AOTC in a DLP venue, you would have been blown away by the image.

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

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Cubebox, since I'm not an international film archive and I'm not into collecting film reels, I'm talking about home video collections and the suitability of home video formats for archival purposes. I thought it was rather obvious I was talking about homevideo - if it wasn't, I apologize for the mixup.