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team negative1 - star wars 1977 - 35mm theatrical version (release details and updates) — Page 174

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Yes.
Search for silver screen edition, or so.

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Cthulhunicron said:

Anyone else think Harmy’s DeSpecialized version looks better than this? The silver screen version is still cool to have, but I prefer watching the Despecialized edition.

Ya, I think it depends what “look” you like, whether a modern “off the negative” look or a more traditional theater print look. Some people prefer the modern “1st gen” “lossless” hi-res and high DR look of the blu-ray which Harmy’s is based on, whereas the SSE is far more true to the way the movie actually looked in the theater in 1977 - and some people want and prefer that nostalgic look. 90% of Harmy’s is the blu-ray version which was scanned from original negatives (specialized), not from prints, then digitally cleaned up by Lucasfilm and re-color graded which is pretty much how all modern film-shot movies are now viewed both in theater and at home - so it’s as close to “lossless” and a master print as you can get. In 1977 no one saw the movie in this fashion, they saw the “lossy” 35mm (and a few 70mm) prints - the positive print process while still produces a great viewing product does lose some resolution and DR and adds noise. The SSE is scanned from 35mm LPP prints with some 35mm Eastman stock as well, cleaned up, and color graded. So as SSE is one generation removed from the original negatives, it’s not going to be “as” sharp and perfect and have the same DR as the despecialized Bluray source. So Harmy’s looks subjectively “better than the original theatrical release”, I would say Harmys has a more “modern” and more 2017-like released film-shot movie look and SSE looks basically exactly like the 1977 theatrical release. It will be interesting to see how Harmy’s compares to the 4k77 release when it comes out.

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 (Edited)

I’m pretty sure the LPP used for the SSE is a duplicate, so it’s 4(?) generations away from the negative.

Even if it isn’t a dupe, it’s still 3 generations away so it really shouldn’t come as a surprise that Bluray based sources have more detail and less grain than a scan of a release print. But like santakrooz says, release prints are what people saw in the cinema and Cinema prints were not struck from the original negative - contact printing was a destructive process, and if they created hundreds of prints from the negative it would have been destroyed. So they would create an interpositive, and use that to create a throw away negative to use for striking prints. When it wears out, they would simply create another. This allowed them to create hundreds of prints without damaging the negative. Sometimes a few prints would be struck directly from the negative for critics screenings, and special events, but these did not end up at your local cinema.

SSE = Original negative -> Interpositive -> internegative -> Positive print -> duplicate -> HD print scanner.
4K77 = Original negative -> color separation matrices -> Positive print -> 4K print scanner
Bluray = Original negative -> HD print scanner.

(According to Videography, the negatives were scanned on a Cintel C-Reality telecine, at 1920x1080 resolution, in 4:4:4 RGB, recorded to Sony SR tape in 2004)
Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20150219050324/http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com:80/savingstarwars.html

It would be really nice if Disney/Lucasfilm could dig up one of those original IPs and create a new 4K scan - it would be head and shoulders above anything else we have access to.

http://www.thestarwarstrilogy.com

http://www.the007dossier.com

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Williarob said:
I’m pretty sure the LPP used for the SSE is a duplicate, so it’s 4(?) generations away from the negative.
SSE = Original negative -> Interpositive -> internegative -> Positive print -> duplicate -> HD print scanner.
4K77 = Original negative -> color separation matrices -> Positive print -> 4K print scanner
Bluray = Original negative -> 4K print scanner.
It would be really nice if Disney/Lucasfilm could dig up one of those original IPs and create a new 4K scan

Awesome points and great sequences. Ya so the '77 films were even more generations lossy. Btw, isn’t 4k77 source primarily an Eastman print? My main point to the question tho, is that Harmy’s (90%+) look and tech are really the same as a modern film, and SSE is really a repo of how we viewed films in 1977. Two very different looks. So which you prefer is really what you like or what you’re watching for. If watching for an authentic 1977 film experience reproduction, then you’ll probably favor SSE, but if you want a modern 2017 film look, then you’ll probably favor Harmy’s.

I assume Disney will dig up the 4K neg scans and reconstruct the original with the “specialized” bin cuts once they complete the Fox acquisition. Actually they probably already have done it, or are doing it. But it wouldn’t be in their interest to disclose or discuss until the acquisition is complete. But ya, they probably will/should do a new 8K scan from the orig negs. Hopefully after Lucasfilm butchered the negs for SE and bluray, they at least stored everything in an archival state. I assume they would/did.

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Assuming Lucasfilm did the right thing is a risky game.

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Possessed said:

Assuming Lucasfilm did the right thing is a risky game.

lol, ya that’s sadly so true. Can only cross fingers. I thought I read somewhere that they’d stored everything properly after the scan/edit. At the end of the day, the editors were professional cinematographers, working with a piece of history, and their own legacies despite the misguided leadership and direction at the time.

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Over a decade of Star Wars preservation projects, and this one to me is the perfect version. I couldn’t even count how many laserdisc scans, dvd GOUT fixup attemps, and blu-ray fixup attempts I’ve downloaded over the years. I even went so far as to buy a laserdisc player, and 4 copies of the Special Widescreen Edition (2 are still sealed) so I had a proper source in widescreen with the ANH crawl and the audio I remember as a kid. I even at one point ripped the laserdisc myself, though considering I have only a mid range player and the 480i non anamorphic letterboxed image, it just looked terrible. Instead, with this project I’ve inserted the improved ANH crawl from Williarob, ripped it with MakeMKV, inserted a GOUT synced copy of the laserdisc audio, then re-encoded to h265 so it could match my blu-ray rips. Now, I have what I consider to be the perfect 1080p version of Star Wars. My wife thinks I’m insane, my kids couldn’t care less and prefer the blu-ray version, but this is the happiest I’ve been with the Star Wars franchise for years, so thank you to everyone for all the hard work that has been put in.

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Williarob, with 4k83 announced, is there still a possibility to be invited to the 4k77 forums?

“People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians”

“In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.” --George Lucas on March 3, 1988

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Found Silver Screen v.1, is there a newer version? The one if found is 24.6 GB

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The newest version of SSE is 1.6, but you might download 4K77, which is a superior scan/release.

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 (Edited)

GZK8000 said:

The newest version of SSE is 1.6, but you might download 4K77, which is a superior scan/release.

Ty. So 4k77 is also a negative1 work? Wanted to get 1.6 but myspleen does not allow invites now 😦

Does v1.6 though give me that same 1977 in theater feel over the 4k77 version?

Is it a secret to find 4k77 and DL it or do I have to dig through the thread?

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Strevlac said:

Williarob said:

Information on where to find 4K77 and SSE 1.6 is on forums.thestarwarstrilogy.com

Williarob, I have tried to sign up on forums.thestarwarstrilogy.com twice using two separate email addresses and neither time was I sent a confirmation email. Are you accepting new members?

Yes we are. I’m not seeing any attempted signups for the username “strevlac”. Did you use a different name?

http://www.thestarwarstrilogy.com

http://www.the007dossier.com