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team negative1 - star wars 1977 - 35mm theatrical version (release details and updates) — Page 173

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OK. Just saw the post about the myspleen sign up. I sent that to my buddy who actually has the burning capability (I don’t) to see if that’ll help him. If so, either he or I will ask to be invited.

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Hi,

I’ve got a BD ISO file of about 35GB from TPB.org. I cannot burn or watch directly this ISO file, I can just extract the movie with MakeMKV. But MakeMKV shows 2 titles in the ISO, same duration, same size : do you know what are the differences (if any) between them ? Or is it just an artefact of the BD structure ?

Thanks

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It is probably the two crawls you are seeing. A New Hope vs. just Star Wars.

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OK. And the original one is just “Star Wars”, right ?

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pehache said:

OK. And the original one is just “Star Wars”, right ?

I believe the original film is actually called “Chewbacca’s big day”.

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So the most recent version is 1.6? And only the first film is out there right?

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Team Negative 1 also released two 35mm scans of ESB around January 2015, known as the Grindhouse v1 (a.k.a. “Renegade Grindhouse”) and Grindhouse v2 (a.k.a. “DCP 2013”, taken from a different print). They colour-corrected the red-faded prints to an extent, but didn’t clean them up the same way as with Star Wars SSE v1.6 before they disbanded. The first Grindhouse is more easily available and has been very nicely cleaned by Dreamaster. Relevant threads here:

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Team-Negative1-The-Empire-Strikes-Back-1980-35mm-Theatrical-Version-Release-Details-and-Updates/id/16108
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Denoise-Regrain-And-CC-of-ESB-Grindhouse/id/55093

They didn’t do RotJ as far as I know, but Harmy has released his own 35mm grindhouse version:

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Harmys-RETURN-OF-THE-JEDI-Grindhouse-35mm-LPP/id/48258

Bluto

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Is there any possible way I could get a copy of this from someone if I were to send a blank with prepaid envelope? I Do not currently have any means to burn this myself but have really been wanting to see this.

Any help is appeciated.

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Williarob said:

FYI: Those who can’t get to the Spleen can also search for
movie_star_wars_episode_iv_a_new_hope_1977_silver
and you’ll find a Mega link via reddit

I have this one, there’s a 39GB Mega folder with a lossless BD stream of the 1.6 film - I used TSmuxer to add the 1977 crawl to the main stream, converted it to MKV and removed the black bars in Handbrake with matching frames and a CRF of 0. Perfection.

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Williarob said:

FYI: Those who can’t get to the Spleen can also search for
movie_star_wars_episode_iv_a_new_hope_1977_silver
and you’ll find a Mega link via reddit

Thanks for the tip-off!

Weird. It lets me download every file except the for film itself (0004.m2ts, 34.26GB). Anyone else have this problem?

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DisGuy said:

Williarob said:

FYI: Those who can’t get to the Spleen can also search for
movie_star_wars_episode_iv_a_new_hope_1977_silver
and you’ll find a Mega link via reddit

Thanks for the tip-off!

Weird. It lets me download every file except the for film itself (0004.m2ts, 34.26GB). Anyone else have this problem?

I might be wrong, but it won’t start the download because the 35GB size of the file is already past the max download limit for free users, which is 5GB. You’ll have to upgrade your account temporarily (if you have one) so you can download it. Again, I might be wrong but that’s what I think.

OT Forum; FanEdit.org: Radi0n FanEdit Forum: Kal-El
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THE ICE CREAM WARS


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I bought a burner and a 10 pack of Dual layer BDs specifically for burning this file but 6 of these discs have become over priced coasters because of crappy programs that don’t seem to handle the size, or these discs are pieces of shit. So I might have to buy a few proper brand discs to see if it will work.
I thought this would be a breeze but it turned out to be anything but.

Captain_Danielsan said:

Swampholley said:

dahmage said:

Thanks for confirming that. Is that cleaned up track available anywhere for remuxing into the SSE? Planning to watch this soon and wanted to make sure I had the best audio option. If it’s too much of a bother, please don’t worry about it.

I just downloaded v1.6 and it’s a 39gig ISO file. The file name is “Star Wars 1977 TN1 v1.6 BR” This obviously won’t rip to a BR, unless I don’t know something. Anybody got any tips/hints?

Like has been said a dual layer 50gb bd-r is the way to go. Make sure to use a decent branded one like sony or Panasonic and burn at the lowest speed possible your drive will allow. Thats option one.

Alternatively you can go with option two like I have. Being too tight to buy 50gb bds I used daemon tools to mount the iso image and then you can use either BdRebuilder or Bdtoavchd ( google these ) to shrink the iso down to the size of a standard 25gb bd-r.

Some here might say 50gb is the only option they would trust but I cant see any quality issues with my 25gb disc even though it’s a shrinking in size of 35% it still looks incredible to me.

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Oswarez said:

I bought a burner and a 10 pack of Dual layer BDs specifically for burning this file but 6 of these discs have become over priced coasters because of crappy programs that don’t seem to handle the size, or these discs are pieces of shit. So I might have to buy a few proper brand discs to see if it will work.
I thought this would be a breeze but it turned out to be anything but.

I’ve only used Verbatim branded discs, both single and dual layer, and I’ve only had one coaster (which was entirely my fault for running 10 different things slowing down the computer). Long ago I got burned (pun intended) by countless coasters from cheap brands, so I’ve been brand loyal to Verbatim since, but there are probably other good disc makers.

Did you try burning at the slowest speed that your burner would allow? That may help. I burned the SSE 1.6 last night at 2X (the lowest on my burner) and the disc seems to be fine.

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Yeah, The last one I tried on the lowest setting got to 90% before the process froze.
I’m going to order some Verbatim discs to see if that works.

Did you try burning at the slowest speed that your burner would allow? That may help. I burned the SSE 1.6 last night at 2X (the lowest on my burner) and the disc seems to be fine.

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Yes.
Search for silver screen edition, or so.

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Cthulhunicron said:

Anyone else think Harmy’s DeSpecialized version looks better than this? The silver screen version is still cool to have, but I prefer watching the Despecialized edition.

Ya, I think it depends what “look” you like, whether a modern “off the negative” look or a more traditional theater print look. Some people prefer the modern “1st gen” “lossless” hi-res and high DR look of the blu-ray which Harmy’s is based on, whereas the SSE is far more true to the way the movie actually looked in the theater in 1977 - and some people want and prefer that nostalgic look. 90% of Harmy’s is the blu-ray version which was scanned from original negatives (specialized), not from prints, then digitally cleaned up by Lucasfilm and re-color graded which is pretty much how all modern film-shot movies are now viewed both in theater and at home - so it’s as close to “lossless” and a master print as you can get. In 1977 no one saw the movie in this fashion, they saw the “lossy” 35mm (and a few 70mm) prints - the positive print process while still produces a great viewing product does lose some resolution and DR and adds noise. The SSE is scanned from 35mm LPP prints with some 35mm Eastman stock as well, cleaned up, and color graded. So as SSE is one generation removed from the original negatives, it’s not going to be “as” sharp and perfect and have the same DR as the despecialized Bluray source. So Harmy’s looks subjectively “better than the original theatrical release”, I would say Harmys has a more “modern” and more 2017-like released film-shot movie look and SSE looks basically exactly like the 1977 theatrical release. It will be interesting to see how Harmy’s compares to the 4k77 release when it comes out.

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 (Edited)

I’m pretty sure the LPP used for the SSE is a duplicate, so it’s 4(?) generations away from the negative.

Even if it isn’t a dupe, it’s still 3 generations away so it really shouldn’t come as a surprise that Bluray based sources have more detail and less grain than a scan of a release print. But like santakrooz says, release prints are what people saw in the cinema and Cinema prints were not struck from the original negative - contact printing was a destructive process, and if they created hundreds of prints from the negative it would have been destroyed. So they would create an interpositive, and use that to create a throw away negative to use for striking prints. When it wears out, they would simply create another. This allowed them to create hundreds of prints without damaging the negative. Sometimes a few prints would be struck directly from the negative for critics screenings, and special events, but these did not end up at your local cinema.

SSE = Original negative -> Interpositive -> internegative -> Positive print -> duplicate -> HD print scanner.
4K77 = Original negative -> color separation matrices -> Positive print -> 4K print scanner
Bluray = Original negative -> HD print scanner.

(According to Videography, the negatives were scanned on a Cintel C-Reality telecine, at 1920x1080 resolution, in 4:4:4 RGB, recorded to Sony SR tape in 2004)
Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20150219050324/http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com:80/savingstarwars.html

It would be really nice if Disney/Lucasfilm could dig up one of those original IPs and create a new 4K scan - it would be head and shoulders above anything else we have access to.

http://www.thestarwarstrilogy.com

http://www.the007dossier.com

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Williarob said:
I’m pretty sure the LPP used for the SSE is a duplicate, so it’s 4(?) generations away from the negative.
SSE = Original negative -> Interpositive -> internegative -> Positive print -> duplicate -> HD print scanner.
4K77 = Original negative -> color separation matrices -> Positive print -> 4K print scanner
Bluray = Original negative -> 4K print scanner.
It would be really nice if Disney/Lucasfilm could dig up one of those original IPs and create a new 4K scan

Awesome points and great sequences. Ya so the '77 films were even more generations lossy. Btw, isn’t 4k77 source primarily an Eastman print? My main point to the question tho, is that Harmy’s (90%+) look and tech are really the same as a modern film, and SSE is really a repo of how we viewed films in 1977. Two very different looks. So which you prefer is really what you like or what you’re watching for. If watching for an authentic 1977 film experience reproduction, then you’ll probably favor SSE, but if you want a modern 2017 film look, then you’ll probably favor Harmy’s.

I assume Disney will dig up the 4K neg scans and reconstruct the original with the “specialized” bin cuts once they complete the Fox acquisition. Actually they probably already have done it, or are doing it. But it wouldn’t be in their interest to disclose or discuss until the acquisition is complete. But ya, they probably will/should do a new 8K scan from the orig negs. Hopefully after Lucasfilm butchered the negs for SE and bluray, they at least stored everything in an archival state. I assume they would/did.

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Assuming Lucasfilm did the right thing is a risky game.

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Possessed said:

Assuming Lucasfilm did the right thing is a risky game.

lol, ya that’s sadly so true. Can only cross fingers. I thought I read somewhere that they’d stored everything properly after the scan/edit. At the end of the day, the editors were professional cinematographers, working with a piece of history, and their own legacies despite the misguided leadership and direction at the time.