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team negative1 - star wars 1977 - 35mm theatrical version (release details and updates) — Page 107

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brycebayer said:

I can’t wait to get this. The 4K version is supposed be finished too. Who do I have to sell to slavery to get into that screening?

You’re talking about Mike Verta’s? Just wanted to be clear that you’re discussing a totally different project before people start making the wrong conclusion.

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 (Edited)

Sorry yes Mike Verta’s project. I was just commenting on how great this year is for Star Wars.

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As far as I know Mike Verta does not intend to release his restauration to the public, or at least not in the same way as Team Negative1 just did. Him being a very prominent member of the movie industry, doing this could lead to very significant consequences for him.

It is possible to sync TN1’s restauration with the GOUT near losslessly by only reencoding a few frames around the cutting points. This is not trivial on the technical side though (the way H264 compresses videos is the reason for it), and therefore only a few video editors are able to do this so called “Smart Encoding” without issues. SmartCutter is probably the best one.

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Congratulations on getting it done guys, it really is a ton of work to do it right.
I’m just about to watch it now!

Donations welcome: paypal.me/poit
bitcoin:13QDjXjt7w7BFiQc4Q7wpRGPtYKYchnm8x
Help get The Original Trilogy preserved!

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TR2N said:

Ah, okay. Thought it is something with cut, insert and merge or maybe smart encoding where only the added or modified content is encoded and merged together with the rest.

I did video editing myself years ago, did a concert movie in 720p/1080p of Nine Inch Nails material that was pushed from Trent to the net with multiple camera angles. Was editing it over a few month with Vegas, used Avisynth as frame server and encoded with MeGUI. Maybe the result is something for the Spleen too, maybe I share it there some day. The torrent is inactive on DIME now.

I remember that I was able to smart render some parts.

Sorry for the off topic.

you did Lights In The Sky (“the Gift”)? if so, you are AWESOME

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negative1,
do you have any plans to share uncompressed video files (raw) ?
or compressed video file with size over 25gb and better encoding setting ?

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Jan said:

It is possible to sync TN1’s restauration with the GOUT near losslessly by only reencoding a few frames around the cutting points. This is not trivial on the technical side though (the way H264 compresses videos is the reason for it), and therefore only a few video editors are able to do this so called “Smart Encoding” without issues. SmartCutter is probably the best one.

Not sure if Smart Encoding is similar but there are few enough frames missing that I wonder if something like (in premiere) rate extending for a very short duration before or after the missing frames and enabling frame blending for that extended portion would work.

I’ve had decent luck with that technique for other purposes. It wouldn’t be ideal or frame accurate (for those very short portions) but anything should be less jarring than blank or repeated frames. May give it a shot once v1.5 is out. But it’s still great that there’s a fix for people who need or want an alternate dub right now.

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DavidMerrick said:

I’m noticing that lights and reflections are “streaked,” like it was a slow exposure and their luminescence is trailing off a little. It’s especially noticeable when Artoo and Threepio are in the sandcrawler. Is this the result of overexposure in the scan or is it native to the print or negative?

EDIT: Here’s an example of what I’m talking about.

http://i.imgur.com/93i2t0z.png

Do you mean this:

with the smearing coming of Threepio and the lights

and this with the Jawas?

It might be something that happened in the compression phase perhaps?

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bitcoin:13QDjXjt7w7BFiQc4Q7wpRGPtYKYchnm8x
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That’s exactly it. Also happens with a lot of lights on the Death Star.

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Is it possible to use another source to fill in for the missing frames? I know the purpose is to preserve the film, but there are missing frames, which is unfortunate. It seems to be just under 5 seconds missing…could (gasp) GOUT frames upscaled be used to fill in these gaps? Obviously not a great solution, but would it be better than black frames to get it GOUT synced?

On a side note, absolutely terrific work, -1! Much appreciated!

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We would like to take a moment, to address a few things:


1 Thanks to all the people that have made comments, and have appreciated our work.

2 This release was initially intended to be released last year, around Christmas or New Years, however due to some last minute changes, we had to postpone it.

We had planned for a bigger notice, but when we thought it was ready, it wasn’t so we had to pull the mention of it.

One of the Team members, actually wanted it to be a silent release, so we respected those wishes.

Note, that we haven’t mentioned anywhere where to get it, or how its to be distributed, although that’s implied in the first post, and the FAQ (which came later).

Obviously, we know about public releases, trackers, etc. However, as mentioned by many other members, our focus was on completing our project. Other people have stepped up on the distribution.

Believe it or not, people still copy discs, and mail them, or have showings, so when we say share it, that is what the intent was.


3 Many of our Team members do not belong to OT, do NOT post, or monitor this site. They are too busy working on things, and rely on others to handle issues such as distribution, and technical issues reporting.

In fact, a few of the members don’t have internet access, or high speed access, and also a member ended up having to download the final version from Myspleen.

For people on this board, they are rewarded for following this project, and participating in it by leaving comments, and in other ways. That is why they are given first notice, and early access.

4 We do not have a timeframe for the BD ISO. It’s going to take some time to assemble it.

We WILL BE DISTRIBUTING COPIES BY MAIL to members of our previous blogs, and those that have contributed. If your physical address has changed (from your current paypal one), PM us with the current one.

This will be done with no charge to you. More details will be sent by email.

Also, we plan on making that Disc image, and exclusive material to those members again first.

5 We can only make so many corrections, and fixes, before we have to consider a project finished.

We have major upcoming plans for the rest of our projects, so keep checking back for updates.


Thank you for your enthusiasm, and keep the responses coming.

We will continue to respond, and address issues when we can.

Team Negative1

Saving Star Wars - One Reel at a Time! The Star Wars Trilogy [Facebook] (https://www.facebook.com/The-Star-Wars-Trilogy-441501702602041/ “Facebook”)

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It is on the newsgroup in the meantime.
But to my surprise it is password protected.
Could someone please pm me the password.

Thanks in advance.

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The basic question really is how many frames there are missing at each cutpoint and where exactly. Somewhere in the middle of a scene or at its end or beginning?

If there are only a few frames missing and they are located in the middle of a scene and not too complex overall, it might be possible to recreate them using some kind of algorithm based on motion estimation. Now, my knowledge in this area is quite limited, so I have no idea how advanced these tools are and whether this can be done without visible artifacts.

I don’t know if this rate extending concept in Premiere that towne32 suggested is something similar. I have never even touched Premiere.

Inserting upscaled Gout frames might very well be visible when playing the movie back, as will black frames if too many of them occur in a row. Not sure about duplicated frames, might be worth a try.

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ger-el said:

Is it possible to use another source to fill in for the missing frames? I know the purpose is to preserve the film, but there are missing frames, which is unfortunate. It seems to be just under 5 seconds missing…could (gasp) GOUT frames upscaled be used to fill in these gaps? Obviously not a great solution, but would it be better than black frames to get it GOUT synced?

See my comment above about rate extention/frame blending. If that doesn’t work, I really think the best option for ‘viewability’ would just be to modify audio tracks as needed. Having our GOUT standard is invaluable for many projects. But if this (or the v1.5) is going to be people’s go-to copy to watch, I think it’s probably the way to go.

I do not think filling in with GOUT frames is going to be any less distracting than black ones. Duplicated frames could work for single ones dropped, depending on the shot, but I would not go beyond that.

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DavidMerrick said:

That’s exactly it. Also happens with a lot of lights on the Death Star.

I can’t say if it is in their print or not, but I just had a look at one of mine, and I adjusted it (very sloppily, not worrying about colour and blowing out the whites to try and force any bleed to show) to be at a similar contrast level, and the print I have here doesn’t appear to have the smearing.


Donations welcome: paypal.me/poit
bitcoin:13QDjXjt7w7BFiQc4Q7wpRGPtYKYchnm8x
Help get The Original Trilogy preserved!

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If someone wants to post images of the missing frames using the GOUT as a source, I’ll see if I have those frames on film anywhere. Probably don’t, but I will check.

Donations welcome: paypal.me/poit
bitcoin:13QDjXjt7w7BFiQc4Q7wpRGPtYKYchnm8x
Help get The Original Trilogy preserved!

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poita said:

DavidMerrick said:

I’m noticing that lights and reflections are “streaked,” like it was a slow exposure and their luminescence is trailing off a little. It’s especially noticeable when Artoo and Threepio are in the sandcrawler. Is this the result of overexposure in the scan or is it native to the print or negative?

EDIT: Here’s an example of what I’m talking about.

http://i.imgur.com/93i2t0z.png

Do you mean this:

with the smearing coming of Threepio and the lights

and this with the Jawas?

It might be something that happened in the compression phase perhaps?

I noticed the “light bleed” as well. To me it looked mostly like ghosting, which can happen when direct light hits a camera lens. Older lenses, like the ones used for Star Wars back in the day, were much more susceptible to this.

Or maybe it’s the result of the “panty hose filter?”

Poita, do you happen to have scans of this scene for comparison?

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the print I have here doesn’t appear to have the smearing.

ignore my last post

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poita said:

DavidMerrick said:

That’s exactly it. Also happens with a lot of lights on the Death Star.

I can’t say if it is in their print or not, but I just had a look at one of mine, and I adjusted it (very sloppily, not worrying about colour and blowing out the whites to try and force any bleed to show) to be at a similar contrast level, and the print I have here doesn’t appear to have the smearing.


Just curious but how did you adjust it? 😃

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Darth Lucas said:

Density said:
Some of us do not sit at our computers staring at the screen for days on end.

Hate to break it to you, but it’s because of people who “sit at their computers staring at the screen for days on end” that we even have these projects you’re so eager to get your hands on in the first place, so maybe try to avoid basically insulting every person on this forum while you ask for something?

This. 😃

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LeviSnuts said:

TR2N said:

Ah, okay. Thought it is something with cut, insert and merge or maybe smart encoding where only the added or modified content is encoded and merged together with the rest.

I did video editing myself years ago, did a concert movie in 720p/1080p of Nine Inch Nails material that was pushed from Trent to the net with multiple camera angles. Was editing it over a few month with Vegas, used Avisynth as frame server and encoded with MeGUI. Maybe the result is something for the Spleen too, maybe I share it there some day. The torrent is inactive on DIME now.

I remember that I was able to smart render some parts.

Sorry for the off topic.

you did Lights In The Sky (“the Gift”)? if so, you are AWESOME

Yup, it is. I will share it on the Spleen in the near future.

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Daxtreme said:

poita said:

DavidMerrick said:

That’s exactly it. Also happens with a lot of lights on the Death Star.

I can’t say if it is in their print or not, but I just had a look at one of mine, and I adjusted it (very sloppily, not worrying about colour and blowing out the whites to try and force any bleed to show) to be at a similar contrast level, and the print I have here doesn’t appear to have the smearing.

Just curious but how did you adjust it? 😃

Sorry, I may have been unclear, the top image in each case is the -1 release, the bottom image is a scan from a different 35mm print I have scanned, adjusted to roughly be about the same brightness as the -1 scan for comparison, to check if the smearing was in the original theatrical prints (e.g. caused by the lenses used in the original shoot) or not. I have not adjusted the images from the neg1 release.

Donations welcome: paypal.me/poit
bitcoin:13QDjXjt7w7BFiQc4Q7wpRGPtYKYchnm8x
Help get The Original Trilogy preserved!

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perhaps my favorite thing about this project is that TN1 delivered without doing too much in the way of hype or over-promising certain aspects

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poita said:

If someone wants to post images of the missing frames using the GOUT as a source, I’ll see if I have those frames on film anywhere. Probably don’t, but I will check.

The list below should be right. The frame-numbers are based on the GOUT after it has been demuxed with PGCDemux and run through DGIndex with forced film selected (in other words, post-IVTC). Althor, would you mind checking them?

42593-604 (inclusive)
45153-45156 (inclusive)
55746-50 (inclusive)
56085
56926
58476-79 (inclusive)
60759
64864
70506-7
78664
83448-51 (inclusive)
86658-715 (inclusive)
113650-5 (inclusive)
144051-5 (inclusive)

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I can’t thank you enough for all the work you’ve done. You’re awesome.

For now I’ll be waiting for the BD25 release. But once it has been released, I’m gonna get it. 😃