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team negative1 - star wars 1977 - 35mm theatrical version (Released) — Page 138

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Platform…: Bluray (BD50)
Full Re-encode from lossless master at a much higher bitrate using professional
grade encoding software
Blu-ray format featuring Seamless branching of the '77 & '81 Crawl,
Interactive Menus with beautifully rendered 3d motion backgrounds created for us
by Donny Versiga, Fully functional Popup Menus, correct Chapter Stops,
subtitles, etc.
New capture of the Mono Mix captured directly from Jaxxon’s Swedish 16mm film

Fucking wow, that sounds killer. Especially the maximized bitrate re-encode for BD50.

SOMEBODY PLEASE PUT THIS ON ULOZ I AM PANICKING SHIT MYSELF.

Harrison Ford Has Pretty Much Given Up on His Son. Here's Why

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Doh! Just noticed that there were two homemade reel change marks at the end of Reel 3 and I only removed one of them, and sadly it wasn’t the worst of the two. While I can remove it in about 10 minutes, unfortunately it would take days to rebuild the blu-ray, so I’m afraid we are stuck with it. However, I will post the corrected frames and then those of you who plan to convert it from a BD50 to a BD25, DVD9, MKV or whatever can make the replacement at that time.

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D’oh. no worries man, so psyched about this! (grabbing now)

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As promised, Here is an updated version of the end of Reel 3, with the Reel change markers cleaned up and the homemade ones removed. There is still some discoloration where the marks used to be, but overall it should be far less distracting.

https://we.tl/pQYEvwmRj5

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One quick question about GOUT synced audio sources not used in this release. Besides considerations like file size, was the DTS-HD MA 5.1 track not used due to complications with the authoring process, particularly with seamless branching? I’ve been really wondering if it could be made to work, and it is a shame to see it not on here, so now I really want to know if it was even attempted and what the results were (and yes, I realize that was basically the same question twice). Thanks.

Also, if people do want to build in other audio, etc., it would be nice to have a tutorial / explanation of the authoring process you used for this menu’d and seamless branching beauty of a beast.

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The original 35mm print we used only had Stereo audio - and that was in Spanish and we included it in this version - but had it been an English print it almost certainly have been in Stereo (mono would have been exciting). The whole idea of the project was to recreate the experience of watching the print on a 35mm projector, without you having to buy the print or the projector. Was there 5.1 surround in '77? I don’t think so, the whole reason there is a mono mix is because a lot of cinemas didn’t even have stereo yet.

So, to answer your question, there was no attempt to use the DTS-HD MA 5.1 track, however, I don’t see any technical reasons why it could not have been used. The Blu-ray structure is made up of tracks, each track uses a playlist and each playlist is made up of clips. When seamless branching, you must first make sure that all the audio and video streams that are in each clip are encoded using identical settings, preferably by the same software. You will have a hard time seamlessly branching an Mpeg2 clip with AC3 audio together with an h.264 clip with PCM audio. What this means in practical terms is that all the audio and subtitle streams must be split to match the video clips. It would be nice if we could add a single audio or subtitle track to a completed video playlist, but unfortunately audio and subtitles are assigned at the clip level. So, for example, all of the subtitle tracks had to be split at the end of the flyover and then re-timed for the rest of the film, and all of the audio and subtitles streams had to be placed in the same order on each clip, and assigned the same language codes, lest the audio or subtitle language suddenly change at the branch.

So to use the DTS-HD MA 5.1 audio, you would first have to find a way to split it between titles-crawl-Flyover and the rest of the film. You may be able to do this with ffmpeg, just literally splitting the file without any re-encode and that would certainly be what I would try first - you never know it might even work. But if that failed, then I would use EAC3to to extract all the channels to wav files. I did this once before when I made those Back to the Future audio tracks with the swearing removed so my kids could enjoy them too. What I discovered then was that, for whatever reason, EAC3to mixed up all the channels, or at least mislabeled them. But anyway, the next thing to do would be to bring the wav files into something like Adobe Audition, and put them all back together as a 5.1 mix, correcting the channel placements if needed. Then split the mix at the end of the flyover, and save each part as a new 5.1 PCM mix.

At that point, you could simply bring in the new wav files and use them as 5.1 PCM audio tracks, or you could re-encode each one as DTS-HD MA, and then bring them into the authoring software or perhaps your authoring software may even be able to do the DTS encoding for you. I wanted to use PCM audio, and had room to do so, so I didn’t look into that.

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Well, there was a 4.2 surround mix, but the closest we have to that is hairy_hen’s reconstruction based on the 1993 mix, 2.0 mix and 4 in-cinema recordings, right?

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

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Even though there was some amount of surround audio for SW in 1977 (though, obviously not exactly the kind of surround sound that is standard today), I was mostly wondering about the DTS-HD MA 5.1 from a technical standpoint, since no, it wouldn’t be what was found on a 35mm print. At the same time, what about the Japanese LD sourced audio is authentic to 35mm? That is an honest question. Is it not the '85 home video sound mix? It looks like the LD came out in '91, so I think it is safe to assume it isn’t the '93 (with even more content changes [though truer to the original mix in most regards]). If it was one of the above, would hairy_hen’s stereo reconstruction not have been a better representation of 35mm sound? Really, I’m just wondering what mix we ended up with and what was the process behind choosing it.

Looking forward to grabbing this, don’t get me wrong. Huge thanks for all the work you’ve put into it.

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I confess I’m not an expert on the audio, but nor am I all that fussy about it. I can’t listen to a mix and tell you - “oh that’s the '93 mix because…” And honestly I don’t really care whether the stormtroopers yell “close the blast doors” or “open the blast doors”. I’m aware of many of the differences, but not all of them. I picked this particular version, because I happened to have it on my hard drive, it was an early stereo mix, and most importantly, it had already been GOUT sync’d which meant I could just drop it straight in. Beyond that, no thought at all went into the decision. But I know a lot of you care a great deal about the audio, which is why I took the time to GOUT sync the video. How you tailor it from here to suit your own needs is entirely up to you.

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The 3PO tractor beam line is the most obvious difference between the 1977 stereo mix and the 1985 stereo mix.

I won’t be able to tell (because I don’t have binary usenet access) unless it goes up on MS, so that’s all I can say.

"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)

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“The early home video releases on VHS and laserdisc (also more obsucre formats such as Betamax, CED and VHD) featured the Dolby Stereo mix, identical to that heard on the 35mm theatrical prints. The superior source being the Japanese pan & scan laserdisc released in 1991, which contains uncompressed digital stereo audio. Playing the mix through a home Dolby Pro-logic decoder authentically recreates the original 4-channel surround experience.”

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Star-Wars-sound-mixes/id/15294

I just checked and it does not have this line:

“The tractor beam is coupled to the main reactor in seven locations. A power loss at one of the terminals will allow the ship to leave”

Just lucky I guess!

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Every movie you see that says Dolby Stereo has 4 channel matrixed surround sound. The simplified home version was called Dolby Surround and only extracted the surround channel from the existing 4 channel matrixed surround. It is a simple matter to generate an LFE to go with it. The 70 mm 6 track was comprised of left, center, right, surround and two LFE channels. Before Dolby Stereo, you either had optical mono soundtracks or magnetic 6 track (there were some older formats that were 4 track). But there was only one surround channel. The two extra tracks were either mid right and mid left or LFE. 5 front channels kind of made sense with some of the very wide format movies presented on very large screens.

The 1985 and 1993 mixes should be matrixed as well. Some of the later matrixed surround contains 2 surround channels. Dolby Surround equipment can extract 1 surround channel. Dolby ProLogic can extract 1 surround channel and the center. Dolby ProLogic II can extract 2 surround channels and the center. There have to be 2 surround channels to extract or it will just duplicate the single surround channel. LFE is usually mixed with the surround and cut off between 80 and 120 hz. The LFE channel isn’t necessary as most systems will direct the low bass sounds to the subwoofer and filter them out of the surround channels.

The original 77 Dolby Stereo was included in video releases before 1985, including multiple LD releases. I am currently working on a way to extract the original multi channel audio from the stereo source. If it works I should be able to create a 4.1 channel AC3 or DTS file for the original audio. From my first attempt with the 1985 soundtrack, I think I can extract a full 5.1 channels from it and the 1993 soundtrack.

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Williarob said:

The superior source being the Japanese pan & scan laserdisc released in 1991, which contains uncompressed digital stereo audio. Playing the mix through a home Dolby Pro-logic decoder authentically recreates the original 4-channel surround experience."

Just lucky I guess!

Yeah, I’ll have to agree with that, from the description it sounds like it might be a rather pleasant experience, looking forward to giving that Japanese stereo mix a try.

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Every movie you see that says Dolby Stereo has 4 channel matrixed surround sound. The simplified home version of the decoder was called Dolby Surround and only extracted the surround channel from the existing 4 channel matrixed surround. It is a simple matter to generate an LFE to go with it. The 70 mm 6 track was comprised of left, center, right, surround and two LFE channels. Before Dolby Stereo, you either had optical mono soundtracks or magnetic 6 track (there were some older formats that were 4 track). But there was only one surround channel. The two extra tracks were either mid right and mid left or LFE. 5 front channels kind of made sense with some of the very wide format movies presented on very large screens.

The 1985 and 1993 mixes should be matrixed as well. Some of the later matrixed surround contains 2 surround channels. Dolby Surround equipment can extract 1 surround channel. Dolby ProLogic can extract 1 surround channel and the center. Dolby ProLogic II can extract 2 surround channels and the center. There have to be 2 surround channels to extract or it will just duplicate the single surround channel. LFE is usually mixed with the surround and cut off between 80 and 120 hz. The LFE channel isn’t necessary as most systems will direct the low bass sounds to the subwoofer and filter them out of the surround channels.

The original 77 Dolby Stereo was included in video releases before 1985, including multiple LD releases. I am currently working on a way to extract the original multi channel audio from the stereo source. If it works I should be able to create a 4.1 channel AC3 or DTS file for the original audio. From my first attempt with the 1985 soundtrack, I think I can extract a full 5.1 channels from it and the 1993 soundtrack.

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NEW MONO MIX!!!

(Not to downplay all the other amazing aspects.)

I hope someone can put this up on the spleen.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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THANK YOU Williarob! Looks amazing. Fired up MakeMKV on the ISO, and chose the first video track, and I have a nice MKV file with the original crawl. [Can’t even begin to imagine why anyone would want the modified one.]

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It sounds like the 35mm stereo mix comes from the Japanese laserdisc, the one with digital audio which was discovered a few years ago. If this is indeed the version I’m thinking of, then it has numerous dropouts throughout the movie and a pretty severe instance of tape distortion during the sunset scene.

For the Despecialized Edition, I put together a corrected version of this track, which eliminates every instance of dropout and distortion by replacing them with segments from Belbucus’ analog capture. I also adjusted the gain of the whole mix so that the dialog is at the same level as in the 1993 version, eliminating any perceived difference in average volume when switching between audio tracks. Looks like it’s too late to include it in this release, but most of the errors probably aren’t very noticeable anyway, so it’s not worth worrying about.

For the sake of clarification about my 5.1 version, it was created using the 1993 mix as a base, while removing all the extra sound effects that weren’t present theatrically and replacing them with segments taken from the 1985 mix, level-matched and EQ’d to blend as closely as possible. It was then upmixed to five channels with Prologic II, and combined with a custom LFE channel containing bass effects for each explosion, spaceship flyby, and other things of that nature. Each individual instance of bass was heavily edited (in level, dynamics, and timing) in order to blend into the rest of the soundtrack. Since the 1993 mix was mostly derived from the 70mm printmaster, the changes I made allow my 5.1 to be considered a close approximation of the original 70mm six-channel mix. Obviously it is not exact, since it does not have the true discrete channels of the original, but it does provide a very similar feel. The surround effects are monaural, the dynamic range is for the most part very similar, and the bass provides a solid foundation for the action which is missing in other versions.

I considered this to be worth trying to reconstruct, since Star Wars was the first movie ever to be made with a dedicated LFE channel, and the only other way to hear such a thing on home video is with the rubbishy special edition mixes. Since it is a reconstructed approximation and not completely a preservation as such, and since the real version was only present on 70mm prints, perhaps it does not really belong in a project that seeks to deliver the experience of watching the film on a 35mm print, whose content is 100% authentic. But if people want to include it in their own derived copies (probably with the branching removed to make authoring easier), I certainly won’t try to stop them. 😉

Anyway, enough of that: since I haven’t been around, I had no idea this project was ready for release. It looks to be quite impressive, and I’m certainly very interested in watching a version that is completely sourced from film and contains no traces of the SE whatsoever. Looking forward to seeing it!

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I feel like there’s suddenly a hole in my spleen.

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Yup:

“This torrent was not authorized by us. Please remove it. Due to it being a film scan. Rogue1”

This torrent was not authorised by Team Negative1, so has been disabled.

  • Eftydub (Administrator)
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WTF seriously?

[ Scanning stuff since 2015 ]

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I don’t get it, Negative1 didn’t care that version 1 was on the Spleen and only asked for it to be removed in preparation for the new version - yet now Rogue1 is saying “they” don’t want the new version on a tracker either? What gives! Why was there no mention at all of that in this thread?

[ Scanning stuff since 2015 ]