Poita’s scan of the LPP.
a scan of the whole movie or just for replacement parts?
The whole movie.
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Poita’s scan of the LPP.
a scan of the whole movie or just for replacement parts?
The whole movie.
wow.
and are there plans for creating a release from that scan or will it just be used for replacement parts?
You’ve got nothing to be ashamed of Williarob. The work you’ve done has been marvelous, and so have your very frank posts on OT and thestarwarstrilogy.com. As far as Mike Verta’s comments go, I think it’s comparing apples and oranges. Mike has a really high standard, and he’s been slaving at Legacy for 15 years to approach those standards. Mike wanted to restore Star Wars back to it’s original release state, and he used numerous prints to do it. As far as I can see it, the Silverscreen Edition was made with a different goal in mind: preserve the Spanish LPP, while improving the experience by removing dirt and scratches, and enhancing the color. It’s restoration versus preservation.
I think we all have different goals in mind when it comes to “restoring” Star Wars.
"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)
Poita’s scan of the LPP.
a scan of the whole movie or just for replacement parts?
The whole movie.
wow.
and are there plans for creating a release from that scan or will it just be used for replacement parts?
That’s a good question and the answer really depends on how much better the scan is, and how easy it is to swap sources. The new scan should be cleaner, sharper and smear free but it will still have the same color issues and much of the same physical damage. In theory, it may be possible to swap out the frames from the old print with those of the new and apply the same cleanup, but of course in the real world things are never that easy… I would like to replace as much of the source material as I can because I think that will result in the best quality final product, but not if it will take another three years to complete.
Don’t worry though, I will keep you posted every step of the way. If we have learned anything from this debacle, I think we learned that having a secretive “team” account that only makes infrequent, ambiguous and often nonsensical statements is bad. That badness leads to anger, and anger leads to hate, and hate leads us… well, to where we are now really with the team’s greatest achievement being over shadowed by allegations of misconduct.
So in an effort to avoid this sort of thing happening again I shall try to be as transparent as possible. To that end, I can tell you that Poita’s scan should be shipping sometime this week. When it arrives I’ll post some comparisons. I don’t anticipate it being the kind of night and day difference there is between the LPP and the Tech, but it should be better than what we have.
TheStarWarsTrilogy.com.
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Transparency truly is the enemy of corruption… 😛
"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)
I’d say, apply a global color correction to the new scan (or, if it works, use the shot-by-shot settings you’ve used for the Silverscreen version), make it GOUT-synced and release a Grindhouse version of it. People really love the Grindhouse releases of both Empire and Jedi, so to get something out the door quickly (and hold people over until you finish another fully cleaned up version), this might be worth it.
The new scan should be cleaner, sharper and smear free
Sounds good to me 😉
But as I understand, it still needs to go through scratch & dirt removal and CC?
I can understand not wanting to go through all that again for every frame as you guys just went through all that for the SSE
I’d say, apply a global color correction to the new scan (or, if it works, use the shot-by-shot settings you’ve used for the Silverscreen version), make it GOUT-synced and release a Grindhouse version of it. People really love the Grindhouse releases of both Empire and Jedi, so to get something out the door quickly (and hold people over until you finish another fully cleaned up version), this might be worth it.
This. Harmy’s ROTJ Grindhouse is great even with the scratches. Plus, the quality is good enough that people could use that material as the basis for their own project and do their own cleanup if they wanted to.
Luke threw twice…maybe.
I’d say, apply a global color correction to the new scan (or, if it works, use the shot-by-shot settings you’ve used for the Silverscreen version), make it GOUT-synced and release a Grindhouse version of it. People really love the Grindhouse releases of both Empire and Jedi, so to get something out the door quickly (and hold people over until you finish another fully cleaned up version), this might be worth it.
This. Harmy’s ROTJ Grindhouse is great even with the scratches. Plus, the quality is good enough that people could use that material as the basis for their own project and do their own cleanup if they wanted to.
Yes. Especially for the sake of Harmy’s 3.0.
Anyway, it’s great and a bit of a strange feeling to have transparency in the project like this. If SSE 2 ends up just using select replacement of smeary shots, maybe we can all chime in about what we’ve noticed that needs it.
Excuse me if I’m missing something, but since no one who “owns” a print of Star Wars actually legally “owns” it (since they all belong to Fox/Disney), why exactly is the person who loaned the Technicolor scan upset? I can understand if he or she is worroed because a scan of that print could be traced back and thus face legal repercussions from Fox/Disney. But if it’s something other than that…well, frankly: what right does that person have to keep such a thing to him or herself when none of what we’re talking about here is strictly “legal”?
Excuse me if I’m missing something, but since no one who “owns” a print of Star Wars actually legally “owns” it (since they all belong to Fox/Disney), why exactly is the person who loaned the Technicolor scan upset? I can understand if he or she is worroed because a scan of that print could be traced back and thus face legal repercussions from Fox/Disney. But if it’s something other than that…well, frankly: what right does that person have to keep such a thing to him or herself when none of what we’re talking about here is strictly “legal”?
Because the existence of any of these releases depends entirely on collaboration and trust. Officially no-one really owns the prints, true enough, but if taking without permission was considered fair game then no-one would ever lend prints to those with the ability to scan them and all these projects would be significantly poorer, if they even got off the ground at all.
NB/ I don’t know for a fact that a scan was used without permission on purpose- I’m speaking generally.
On another note, nice one Williarob, good to here we’ll be getting updates on a new version 😃
What I don’t understand: -1 released a preview video of the Technicolor print. Did they get a scan of the whole thing? And if so, why wouldn’t the remaining members simply release it under a different name?
Excuse me if I’m missing something, but since no one who “owns” a print of Star Wars actually legally “owns” it (since they all belong to Fox/Disney), why exactly is the person who loaned the Technicolor scan upset? I can understand if he or she is worroed because a scan of that print could be traced back and thus face legal repercussions from Fox/Disney. But if it’s something other than that…well, frankly: what right does that person have to keep such a thing to him or herself when none of what we’re talking about here is strictly “legal”?
You pointed out one very good reason. And as Space said, what is in question is the respect with which we treat other members in a very small community. Mike Verta has made it clear that the people who own prints that he used do not want their identities revealed, nor do they want scans of their prints released to the public illicitly. You are correct that they don’t have a ‘legal’ right to the print, but that is not what is up for debate. The person may have paid a small fortune for the print to keep in their private collection. They kept it safe from destruction for who knows how many years, and they took an enormous risk allowing it to be used for an important project. So we should respect them for those reasons, even if it isn’t about recognizing legal rights. The other factor in the allegation is that Mike Verta paid $10000+ for the scan itself to occur.
You can always argue that there is no honor among theives, so therefore we should all just do whatever. But that’s not how a community like this, which benefits greatly from collaboration, needs to survive.
What I don’t understand: -1 released a preview video of the Technicolor print. Did they get a scan of the whole thing? And if so, why wouldn’t the remaining members simply release it under a different name?
That preview is the whole source of the dilemma. Yes, if they decided to keep working on it, they could release it under a different name. But for what purpose? Do you just mean because they’re a restructured group or because it would somehow effectively allow them to hide from us and Mike Verta? If they are now not going to work on it, they are making the decision on their own behalf with the best interest of the Legacy projects in mind.
I guess my concern is that while Verta is doing extraordinary and selfless work, our ability to see and enjoy what he’s doing (since he said he won’t release it to the public) depends entirely on Disney/Fox. And I am skeptical that would work. If -1 could get a decent Technicolor scan release out onto torrent, it is likely to either force their hand or – if not – we still have a beautiful looking Techbicolor release to enjoy. With all due respect, I am rooting for -1 members to get 2.0 up online.
I guess my concern is that while Verta is doing extraordinary and selfless work, our ability to see and enjoy what he’s doing (since he said he won’t release it to the public) depends entirely on Disney/Fox. And I am skeptical that would work. If -1 could get a decent Technicolor scan release out onto torrent, it is likely to either force their hand or – if not – we still have a beautiful looking Techbicolor release to enjoy. With all due respect, I am rooting for -1 members to get 2.0 up online.
I think it’s way too presumptive to suggest that a move like that would have a positive impact on the negotiation. What hand would it force? If we imagine for a second that it isn’t incredibly likely to have a negative impact, and is instead capable of either good or bad effect, it still absolutely should not be risked for a project this important. I get why you think it’s important as an alternative plan for Legacy, but now is not the time to focus on that.
The suggestion, in my opinion, is a careless and amatuerish move compared to what Mike is attempting to do as a serious and professional business negotiation.
I’d say, apply a global color correction to the new scan (or, if it works, use the shot-by-shot settings you’ve used for the Silverscreen version), make it GOUT-synced and release a Grindhouse version of it. People really love the Grindhouse releases of both Empire and Jedi, so to get something out the door quickly (and hold people over until you finish another fully cleaned up version), this might be worth it.
This. Harmy’s ROTJ Grindhouse is great even with the scratches. Plus, the quality is good enough that people could use that material as the basis for their own project and do their own cleanup if they wanted to.
Yes. Especially for the sake of Harmy’s 3.0.
Anyway, it’s great and a bit of a strange feeling to have transparency in the project like this.
I know, right? What will I complain about now?
towne32 said:
I think it’s way too presumptive to suggest that a move like that would have a positive impact on the negotiation. What hand would it force? If we imagine for a second that it isn’t incredibly likely to have a negative impact
But what exactly would be the negative effect? The -1 Technicolor version would seed across torrent, thousands of people would get to see the highest quality version of the original film…what could Disney/Fox do other than risk alienating the hell out of fans by sending a lot of cease-and-desist letters? The RIAA have largely stopped going after people who share music. I don’t see what the negative effect would be.
Excuse me if I’m missing something, but since no one who “owns” a print of Star Wars actually legally “owns” it (since they all belong to Fox/Disney), why exactly is the person who loaned the Technicolor scan upset? I can understand if he or she is worroed because a scan of that print could be traced back and thus face legal repercussions from Fox/Disney. But if it’s something other than that…well, frankly: what right does that person have to keep such a thing to him or herself when none of what we’re talking about here is strictly “legal”?
As far as I understand (from what I’ve read on the forum), someone paid (I assume quite a fair amount of money, since scanning prints isn’t cheap) to have that print scanned. And then someone else gave those scans away, without that person’s (the guy who had it scanned) permission.
That’s not proper conduct. legal or not.
Lasz said:
As far as I understand (from what I’ve read on the forum), someone paid (I assume quite a fair amount of money, since scanning prints isn’t cheap) to have that print scanned. And then someone else gave those scans away, without that person’s (the guy who had it scanned) permission.That’s not proper conduct. legal or not.
But how is that a problem unless the person who paid the money was expecting to make that money back by (very illegally) selling his scans of his print? In what world was this person going to get that money back? Unless said person was aiming to be reimbursed by Disney for providing assistance with some theoretical future release, the whole “but he/she spent money!” argument makes no sense to me.
I agree with towne32. An official release of Legacy trumps a fan based restoration, not only because the quality will be unmatched, but also because it can actually give Star Wars back to the people in a way that an illegal, underground release simply cannot. Every day I see requests from people wanting to know how to download the Silver Screen Edition - you know normal people like your Dad who just want to watch it, not geeks who already know how to use torrents and the usenet. They don’t know how to get it, and nobody can give them a simple “click here” to get it solution. If you are new to all this, there are a lot of hoops to jump through before you can find what you came here for.
Putting the original version of The Star Wars Trilogy back on store shelves preserves the film for everyone. Future generations need to see this, not because it’s better then the Special Editions (even though it is) but because it is a piece of film history that Lucas himself has so short-sightedly tried to re-write. The people who worked on the film, who won Academy awards for truly groundbreaking Visual Effects should be recognized for their achievements in this version of the film - not for a poorly rendered CGI version of Jabba that they had absolutely nothing to do with. Future generations of film students should be studying the original version of the film, and they should have something better than laserdisc era media to watch it on.
While we would all love to have that 2.0 version out there to “tide us over” until an official release, I think it would be very selfish to do so, particularly if by doing so we derailed a deal that could lead to us achieving the goal that this entire site was created for. So let’s delay that instant gratification for the few in favor of long term gratification for everyone.
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Personally:
I prefer to share everything I feasibly can. But if asked not to, I keep it private out of respect.
"Right now the coffees are doing their final work." (Airi, Masked Rider Den-o episode 1)
Williarob said:
While we would all love to have that 2.0 version out there to “tide us over” until an official release, I think it would be very selfish to do so, particularly if by doing so we derailed a deal that could lead to us achieving the goal that this entire site was created for. So let’s delay that instant gratification for the few in favor of long term gratification for everyone.
These are all fair points I guess I just find “release 2.0 as a means of pressuring Disney/Fox” to be a far superior strategy. The press around the release of version 1.0 has likely done more to move Disney/Fox towards an official release than any fan campaign yet.
Excuse me if I’m missing something, but since no one who “owns” a print of Star Wars actually legally “owns” it (since they all belong to Fox/Disney), why exactly is the person who loaned the Technicolor scan upset? I can understand if he or she is worroed because a scan of that print could be traced back and thus face legal repercussions from Fox/Disney. But if it’s something other than that…well, frankly: what right does that person have to keep such a thing to him or herself when none of what we’re talking about here is strictly “legal”?
As far as I understand (from what I’ve read on the forum), someone paid (I assume quite a fair amount of money, since scanning prints isn’t cheap) to have that print scanned. And then someone else gave those scans away, without that person’s (the guy who had it scanned) permission.
That’s not proper conduct. legal or not.
So why isn’t the person who passed it on not the one being blamed and outted? Is it because that person is in a more important position than tn1 and outing them would cause more harm to Mike’s current progress than outing an unknown team of people? I’m still confused.
Excuse me if I’m missing something, but since no one who “owns” a print of Star Wars actually legally “owns” it (since they all belong to Fox/Disney), why exactly is the person who loaned the Technicolor scan upset? I can understand if he or she is worroed because a scan of that print could be traced back and thus face legal repercussions from Fox/Disney. But if it’s something other than that…well, frankly: what right does that person have to keep such a thing to him or herself when none of what we’re talking about here is strictly “legal”?
As far as I understand (from what I’ve read on the forum), someone paid (I assume quite a fair amount of money, since scanning prints isn’t cheap) to have that print scanned. And then someone else gave those scans away, without that person’s (the guy who had it scanned) permission.
That’s not proper conduct. legal or not.
So why isn’t the person who passed it on not the one being blamed and outted? Is it because that person is in a more important position than tn1 and outing them would cause more harm to Mike’s current progress than outing an unknown team of people? I’m still confused.
They’ve been outed as ‘person #2’, which is enough. There’s no precedent here for publicly shaming someone with their legal name in this discourse.
Even all the people who know -1’s name are not posting it in these threads due to this controversy. Because that’s a shitty thing to do, and surely against the rules here, or at least the expected behavior.
The last couple pages here seem to be full of ideas on how to degenerate into something we really shouldn’t want to become.