[spoRv] projects - past and future — Page 2

It's true that the 2D BD isn't perfect. There's definitely some EE but nothing nearly as distracting as the DNR from the 3D release, making it the best HD source available. By far the worst thing about the 2D BD are the colours. To be honest, even the LD colours would be a huge improvement but my understanding of the intention behind the 3D BD was to recreate the warmer almost brown look of the original theatrical print.

I seem to recall some open-matte film stills were posted here not long ago. I'll have to have a look and compare.

Here are some JP shots I found on the net. The first shot is the 3D BD, second is the Italian laserdisc, third is the 2D BD:

Obviously this doesn't help to determine which is the most theatrically accurate but the 2D BD colours are clearly the worst of the three, having an odd blue and magenta cast and generally being colder looking than the other two.

The only theatrical source I can find are these stills from an open matte print: http://imgur.com/a/wtWIB#10

Here's a comparison: (top: 3D BD, middle: film print, bottom: 2D BD)

I couldn't find a laserdisc shot from this scene but you can see that the reds and blues in the 3D BD are closer to the film print than the colours of the 2D BD.

Anyway, sorry to hog the thread. The point is; I'd love a recolored BD of Jurassic Park. :D

Turisu, don't worry; this thread was created to throw in any idea, thought, comment, about past and future projects.

Plus, any user who would like to join the bunch for specific projects, or simply want to form a stable crew, is really welcome!

P.S. you should fix the HighDefNews.com images, as they don't allow hot links!

Ok, images should be fixed now. Do you happen to have a capture from your LD preservation of the second shot with Grant and Sattler? I'm curious to see how the colours compare to the others.

I have not the original capture anymore... but this is a screenshot from the finished project:

not too different from the 3D BD, color wise:

but, as you can see, 3D BD is more cropped.

Here you are the screenshot comparisons I made at the time I released the JP [ruLes] - 3D BD top, LD bottom:

Here 3D BD colors are not that bad.

...but what about here? The 3D BD seems to me a bad preserved '70's B-movie, don't you think? And please, don't tell me that "this scene was intended to look exactly as is"... because you know that it's not true! (^^,) I'm pretty sure this has something to do with the 3D conversion.

here 3D BD colors are better than before, but still a bit wrong IMHO.

There was also the scene of the boys inside the jeep, where the 3D BD image was really dark and muddy.

So, if I ever have to do a "Jurassic Park [spoRv]" project, I think that to use the LD as color reference is the better solution. What do you think?

UPDATE

if someone is curious about next projects, take a look at this test clip (43MB): http://www.sendspace.com/file/qdecpb

what is about? Surprise! Just download it, and post your opinions here if it should be done or not - to me, color differences are not exagerated, but still important enough to think to release it.

You're right, some of the 3D colours do look very dark and muddy. That shot from the amber mine almost looks sepia!

I agree that it's hard to accept that it ever looked this way theatrically. The film stills do have a more brown look but not to the extent of the 3D BD. But if those aren't the theatrical colours then I have no idea why they went with such a radical change. Surely you wouldn't want to deliberately darken a film for 3D considering that 3D glasses already make it appear darker?

The LD colours may well be a happy medium. How does the T-Rex attack on the jeep look in the LD? The 2D BD has an overwhelming blue cast to it whereas the 3D BD has more natural colours.

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

if someone is curious about next projects, take a look at this test clip (43MB): http://www.sendspace.com/file/qdecpb

what is about? Surprise! Just download it, and post your opinions here if it should be done or not - to me, color differences are not exagerated, but still important enough to think to release it.

Forgot to add my comment on this. I like the LD colours. In the scene with the doctor Arnie's shirts look green in the BD but grey in the LD so there is definitely a difference.

Also the skin tone on the boobs closeup looks better on the LD IMO. :D

Further screenshot comparisons (3D BD top, LD bottom)

Turisu said:

I like the LD colours. In the scene with the doctor Arnie's shirts look green in the BD but grey in the LD so there is definitely a difference.

Also the skin tone on the boobs closeup looks better on the LD IMO. :D

"...those are carefully selected shots, to better show up some particular details" (^^,)

So, at the end, do you agree that it deserves a restoration project?

Do you have this shot from the LD?:

2D BD

3D BD

Film cell

Here the 3D BD is definitely more faithful to the theatrical colours whereas the 2D (and also the DVD releases) have a deep blue tint added. If the LD has the blue tint as well then I would say the 3D BD is the best colour source we have and any restoration should be based on those colours. I have other film cell images that definitely show the deep brown look was present theatrically. For example:

and another:

As for TR, based on your video, I think a restoration would definitely be worthwhile. :)

I have this:

not so blue as 2D BD; despite the fact that 3D BD has richer colors, and it seems closer to 35mm cells, I'm not sure that a projected image of the same shot, at the theater, shows off the same 3D BD "color richness"... I mean, in real life (not under movie lights) do you think a person, inside a car, in the rainy night, could be seen with that right colors?!?

About TR: I think I will give it the green light; further opinions are welcome!

DoomBot said:

I would love to see the JP BD get this color treatment. Would the laserdisc and dts cinema audio be included?

As I wrote in the JP thread, I didn't include the Cinema DTS because the laserdisc DTS soundtrack is basically the same; except for the fact that the DTS encoding for laserdisc used a more advanced encoder than the theatrical one, plus it has a discrete subwoofer channel, while the Cinema DTS has not...

Plus, I should leave space for the uncompressed PCM, if possible...

TEST CLIP ADDED: ROBOCOP Criterion CAV upscaled (17MB, with sound)

http://www.sendspace.com/file/92dksk

opinions?

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

not so blue as 2D BD; despite the fact that 3D BD has richer colors, and it seems closer to 35mm cells, I'm not sure that a projected image of the same shot, at the theater, shows off the same 3D BD "color richness"... I mean, in real life (not under movie lights) do you think a person, inside a car, in the rainy night, could be seen with that right colors?!?

Not so blue as the 2D but not even close to the film cell. It still looks cold and blue where the 35mm clearly displays warm and natural fleshtones. I don't think it matters about the movie light; the fact is that there is clearly no blue whatsoever in Tim's skin in the original print.

This cements my personal opinion that the 3D BD (while perhaps not perfect in every shot) is hands-down the best reference available for JP's theatrical colours. I would love to see a [spoRv] version based on this but, of course, it's your project and I'll respect your decision. Even the LD colours on the 2D would be better than what we have.

Glad to hear about TR. Will look forward to your results. :)

Hey, Andrea! Do you remember, we talked about a "possible" Back To The Future rules project. You asked me to do some comparisons between the PAL LD and NTSC LD. So here it is with the intro from BTTF2.

https://vimeo.com/78782291 

pass: OT

To me, the NTSC colors are way better than the PAL colors. The NTSC also shows more information on the left side. The only problem with the NTSC LD is that I can't deinterlace it without having this weird aliasing everywhere and jerkiness on the framerate as you can see on the footage up there.

Hey, glad to hear you!

Yes, I remember our BTTF talks; I've just watched the clip, and you are right; NTSC has slightly more details on the left side; color wise, though, the PAL is not that bad, only too much "pinky" (^^,)

Please refresh my mind, as I'm too lazy to re-read the BTTF thread: where are they about preservation? I mean, IIRC the HDTV has less compression artefacts than the BD, so will it be used as main video source?

The HDTV versions out there are badly compressed but still enjoyable. They are from HDnet movies so obviously, the logo appears time to time in the down right corner of the picture. The other HDTV version available for the first movie is the Canal+ one but the logo is present during the whole movie. Someone mixed this version with another HDTV source, the WOWOW version which has burn-in subtitles in the picture. But since the guy had to re-encode both sources, I'm pretty sure there is a quality loss.

The blu-ray on the other hand is useless. It suffers of bad DNR and EE... That's why I was more hoping for a "ruLes" version instead of a "spoRv" one.

...don't know... even if I'm really happy with what I have achieved until now, in particular lately using the HLD-X9 as source for my laserdisc captures, the result is exceptional thinking that the source is a "mere" laserdisc, but subpar in comparison to HD sources...

The idea of using the WOWOW source and another HDTV (or BD) to overlay the japanese subtitles is intriguing... about loss of quality, there will be some, but probably still lower than the BD mess, don't you think?

And, color wise, are the HDTV better than the BD?

Color wise, It's pretty much the same on the HDTV and the "Blur-ay" ;) 

The colors are not the same on the old master. Specially on the third movie where the colors are more "yellowish" and less natural than the old ones.

I guess they tried to add a "western-movie" look.

So, a color regrading is necessary in every case, right?

Blur-ay... good joke! (^^,)

Well, I didn't realize people was still interested in project with laserdisc as the video source... and I'm happy! (^^,)

About BTTF [ruLes]: who knows, maybe if anybody else is interested... but I should receive the spanish, german and french soundtracks - even if I'm pretty sure someone is more than willing to do it, you know who I'm talking about, right?

Despite the fact that I LOVE the laserdisc format, I must admit that I'd like to use it only when necessary - e.g. when there are no other HD available version... for example, I thought to use the BD for BATB instead of LD, but then I discovered that the BD is messed up... so, I reverted back to LD.

For BTTF, there are some HDTV rips that could be used; LDs could still be used as color references, plus of course for their marvelous soundtracks!