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relationships between the OT and PT.

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Now, to put the arguing aside for a bit. Episode I and EPisode IV. Both skywalkers blow up deathstar/droid control ship. The main point of both movies was to just meet the characters who will be in the next two films of the OT and PT.

Episodes II and V, Both movies put the rebels/republic in a dark time. Only difference is u may notice it a little more in AOTC. Both contain love stories. Han and Leia/Anakin and Padme. Only difference is the acting. In both involves a jedi going on their own mission. Luke to daghobah and obi-wan to a series of planets to find the bounty hunter and eventually seperatists. Both skywalkers lost their limbs and end up getting robotic ones.

Episodes III and VI. Both movies have a title that is the same only worded differently. ROTJ was the original name for Episode VI, hence ROTS. In both the jedi/sith rise again. the ends though opposite had a similiar meaning. The sith rise/the jedi return.

i'm sure there's more we can contribute here.

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There are obviously intentional parallels between the two trilogies. But I'd have to strongly disagree with the idea that the "main point" of Star Wars was to meet characters that would be in the next two films. In many ways this was the intention of The Phantom Menace, but when it was made, it was clear there would be two sequels.

With Star Wars, George himself said he jumped right to the middle of the story, because that was the exciting part, and he didn't know if there would be anymore. Star Wars was obviously not just a pilot episode, or having its main point to be setting up characters. It is sad to think some people actually see it as that.

 

Another parallels would be that we meet Boba Fett in TESB and then we meet both Jango and Boba in AOTC. Although, if this were a true parallel, instead of having Jango die like a bitch in AOTC, he would have died like a bitch in ROTS as Boba died like a bitch in ROTJ.

"Episodes II and V, Both movies put the rebels/republic in a dark time. Only difference is u may notice it a little more in AOTC. Both contain love stories."

This is a very interesting statement to me. Not that there is anything wrong with it, it is just that personally, I would have thought ESB as by far the more dark time-ish of the two.

Maybe this is do to the fact that AOTC completely failed to capture any emotional attention from me whatsoever. In ESB we start off with Luke nearly getting eaten by a wampa, then Imperials discover there secret base and attack it with over whelming force. Luke goes to meet Yoda, and proves to be a horribly impatient and a poor excuse for Jedi material. Finally Yoda is convinced to train him, and just as the training is getting started, he runs off for emotional reasons, leaving Yoda thinking, "Ah, crap! This idiot his hopeless, hope he gets himself killed before he has a chance to turn to the darkside. Guess we will have to track down the other." Meanwhile, Han and Leia spend the whole film running for their lives in a very unhealthy Millennium Falcon. They finally find a safe haven, only to be betrayed by a friend, which eventually ends up with Han being frozen and taken away, his fate remaining unknown for a whole three years (real world time). Luke flys into a trap, learns some depressing news, his father the hero is really his father the villain, and his mentor had been lying to him all this time... or maybe Vader is lying, either way, poor kids head is filled with doubt. Oh yeah, and he loses his hand and his dad's old lightsaber, talk about one bad day!

Attack of the Clones... Anakin acts like a whiney idiot, Obi-Wan acts like an annoying nagging father figure. Anakin takes off to go protect his one true love and try to make her fall in love with him by whining and killing villages of sand people. Obi-Wan goes on a very contrived and ridiculous quest to discover who is trying to kill Padme, which eventually leads him to a ridiculous bit about these long necked CG guys making a million Boba Fett daddy clones at the whim of some dead Jedi. Eventually, it is decided that war needs to break out, and the convenient news of the clone army of New Zealanders of questionable origins arrives back to the Republic, and they decide "Hang questionable origins! We wouldn't want to miss this chance to go on a crazy meaningless war, would we? Vote now, vote now!" And so war breaks out in a gladiator arena (with LFL thinking, hell, I bet we could make some pretty sweet video game levels if we had the war start in the middle of giant gladiator arena!). After TPM everyone was expecting another amazing lightsaber battle, instead we get flashbacks from Muppet's Treasure Island (Kermit with a sword, just in case everyone doesn't get it), Anakin getting his arm cut off rather anticlimactically, and the villain turning tail and running like a pansy (a character trait George found very becoming of his villains, and reused the idea to the point of cliche in his next film).

Oh yeah, and then there were the large beasts in the gladiator arena that reminded me of Ghostbusters toys for some reason... and... okay, I concede, AOTC is by far more depressing than ESB. Not so much of a darker film, but just more depressing in general...

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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The first SW film was never intended to be the middle of the saga! It was merely a standalone piece that got five sequels because it made $400 million in 1977. The parallels in the PT are nothing more than self-plagiarism. 

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rcb said:

... The main point of both movies was to just meet the characters who will be in the next two films of the OT and PT... Han and Leia/Anakin and Padme. Only difference is the acting... i'm sure there's more we can contribute here.

I have to agree...

The main point of SW77 is not to meet the characters who will be in the next two films... as you're no doubt aware, Luca$h wasn't even sure there would be any more films, so SW77 was written as a story that could stand alone... conversely, the only point of the entire PT was to meet the characters we followed in the OT...

The second point I've picked out is your idea that the only difference between the Han & Leia and Anakin & Padme romances was the quality of the acting... while I may agree that it was one of the differences, it is by no means the only one... right from the get-go, we're required to believe that she's interested in someone she first met as a little boy (I mean, at least Luke & Leia didn't know they were brother & sister before they snogged, which is the ickiest moment of that kind in the OT)... she somehow, for reasons not made clear in the film, can look past the fact that Lil' Orphan Annie is a whining pain in the ass, not to mention that he seems okay with genocide as a panacea for grief... add to that not just poor acting but also poor writing, design, direction, editing, etc. and you've got enough reasons right there as to why AOTC and ESB are on completely different levels...

Lastly, you've managed, possibly inadvertantly, to explain why the PT was so superfluous... it's basically a bad rehash of the OT that only exists to set up the OT in the first place... which it didn't even need...

Congratulations! ;D

Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Y'know, thinking about this has brought up something else for me... the way certain phrases from the OT have been repeated in every film of the PT... e.g. "I've got a bad feeling about this"... that really pisses me off...

In fairness, I think the blame has to be laid at ESB's door... I appeal to other members to confirm or refute this, but I think "I've got a bad feeling about this" has been repeated in every SW movie, by one character or another, since SW77... is that really necessary?... it doesn't make me laugh, I dunno about anyone else...

Don't you call me a mindless philosopher...!
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Just be Thankful George kept the "i've got a bad feeling about this" out of Raiders of the Lost Ark.  I remember reading or seeing something in a documentary where he was Going to have Indiana Jones say this in the movie, sort of like the Wilhelm scream being in Both indiana jones and star wars series.

 

The prequels sucked because

A. The scripts were horrible

B. The directing Sucked

C. Over reliance on cgi to the detriment of the story

D. Hayden Christensen

They were largely not as collaborative pieces as star wars 77 and empire strikes back.  It was on Return of the Jedi Lucas pretty much was writing the stories himself and all But Directed the film through Marquand.

Kasden did a quick tidying up on this script but had little to do with the stories ideas or story meetings.  Remember he a director at the time and only did a quick re-write because he felt loyal to his past Relationship with George, and George gave him a stab a writing Raiders and Empire Strikes Back.  Which to this very day are considered to be 2 of the finest scripts in genre fiction in hollywood history.

Okay Spielberg directed the Pre Viz for the lightsaber duel on Mustafar, But beyond that i don't know of George asking anybody to collaborate in his circle of friends outside his company of yes men and visual artists and effects technicians.

Even if Revenge of the Sith is by far and large critically and received by fans of the prequels as the best of the 3 the acting is horrible.  The Lightsaber duel was pretty awesome minus the rediculous riding over the lava on droids part, and was really trying to be a redo of duel of the fates from menace.  But Haydens " You underestimate my power"  was beyond bad acting.  And then of course you have the Emperor and Yoda acting like they are in a loony tunes cartoon.  And then Vader walking like Frankenstein and goin N000000000000000000!!!.   Nearly as bad as Shia swinging with monkeys like Tarzan in indiana jones 4, or the flying in a nuked fridge,lol.  Indiana had a nice three mile ride through the air and just gets up and dust himself off.

The clones look like a cartoon and fake because they are all CGI.  The voice over work by the Jango Fett actor "right away, sir"  is also awful.  I cannot believe Lucas saw fit to redub Boba Fett in Empire Strikes Back with this Clown.

Grievous Coughing too much like a bad villain out of inspector Gadget or something, the wheely thingy he rides is obviously only to sell toys. 

They build up a character like Count Dooku to get killed at the very beginning of the film and his character was completely wasted in the prequels.

Midi Chlorian Subplot, the whills and the force ghost thing and qui gons fate in the force not explained. 

Why did Obi Wan dissapear bodily into the force in star wars and then qui gon does not dissapear in Phantom Menace.

The prequels are such bad movies in a way they are entertaining in a morbid sort of way like watching a train wreck or a plan nine from outer space type of film.

 

The prequel trilogy is a bad remake of the oot without any of the charm or magic of the originals.  In short a giant pile of shit.  Still Lucas became a Billionaire because he has fans who drink the Lucas kool aide off of the prequels, and the bad 4th indiana jones made him further rich.  When these films are so notoriously bad they should have been shunned like the star wars holiday special.

The only film to really bomb since Howard the Duck, Radioland Murders, More American Graffiti or willow was the 2008 Clone Wars movie.  Everybody hated that shit film that was a proof of concept for a television series.  Lets take a network animated pilot and put it on the big screen.  Cause you know Pixar is making big bucks lets cash in on some of that success.

Maybe the Live action tv star wars series will be cancelled and moved from network to network like Young Indiana Jones Chronicles.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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C3PX said:

There are obviously intentional parallels between the two trilogies. But I'd have to strongly disagree with the idea that the "main point" of Star Wars was to meet characters that would be in the next two films. In many ways this was the intention of The Phantom Menace, but when it was made, it was clear there would be two sequels.

Yeah, the original film was made to be a stand alone piece. Lucas wanted to do sequels but he didn't know if he could. And they were prepared to do Splinter of the Mind's Eye as a low budget sequel instead of the films that got made.

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skyjedi2005 said:

Even if Revenge of the Sith is by far and large critically and received by fans of the prequels as the best of the 3 the acting is horrible.  The Lightsaber duel was pretty awesome minus the rediculous riding over the lava on droids part, and was really trying to be a redo of duel of the fates from menace.  But Haydens " You underestimate my power"  was beyond bad acting.  And then of course you have the Emperor and Yoda acting like they are in a loony tunes cartoon.  And then Vader walking like Frankenstein and goin N000000000000000000!!!.   Nearly as bad as Shia swinging with monkeys like Tarzan in indiana jones 4, or the flying in a nuked fridge,lol.  Indiana had a nice three mile ride through the air and just gets up and dust himself off.

See, I think the Mustafar duel was atrocious. In the prequels they got to doing this thing with lightsaber duels wherein the characters go on and on and on repeating pretty much the same action endlessly with nothing really happening. If you look at the OT lightsaber battles that doesn't happen. It's all meaningful action. Whereas in the Mustafar duel you feel you could could go away from the screen for a while and come back nothing important would have happened in the time you were gone. It makes the action meaningless and boring. The Mustafar duel stretches on endlessly and is boring as hell. And the music is way overdone. In OT battles the music is generally a background thing. In the Mustafar duel the music is damn near the main star of the scene. It's overpowering. And the tone of the music is as if to say "You MUST feel strongly here. This is an EPIC and TRAGIC moment. Feel!" The OT made you feel rather than telling you to feel like that. The Mustafar music is not only pushy, it adds to the pomposity and overdone showiness of the scene.

And we don't just have guys standing on droids. They're swinging back and forth on ropes while fighting each other over the lava. Maybe that's where they got the tarzan swinging around idea for Indy 4. Give me the Indy 4 version any day over the Mustafar version. It's seriously overdone. See, all this is while they're dancing around in the lava without getting burnt and we're being asked to buy that as plausible. It's just ridiculous and overdone. The whole thing is done up way too grand. The OT managed so much more involving fights with so much less show and pomposity and buildup. The Mustafar scene bludgeons you with how grand it's supposed to be. Way too heavy handed. It's shouting at you "This is a GRAND moment!" and I just want to say "I got that. Stop fucking shouting already!"

And then we have Anakin's ranting. When he rants about how from his point of view the Jedi are evil he looks like he's about to burst into tears like a little kid. When he screams "You underestimate my power!" the lameness factor is mind-boggling. And then later after he's been chopped up and fried he screams at Kenobi "I hate you!" like a little kid who's been denied a treat. I half expect to shout "If you don't say I won, I'll hold my breath until  you do!" Between the script and the talents of Hayden Christensen the character of Darth Vader is totally rubbed in the shit in this scene.

Also, Anakin's defeat is seriously anticlimatic. After all that fighting going on forever with nothing really happening, suddenly Anakin makes a stupid jump and Kenobi cuts off three of his limbs in one go and Annie falls flat on his face and get fried up. It doesn't work. And it's almost slapstick.

Also not helping is you have no real connection with either of these characters. Ewan McGregor is a good actor but if you compare his Kenobi to Alec Guinness's or to Han, Luke and Leia, you can see how he fails to make that close connection with the audience that the OT characters do. Plus it doesn't help that Ewan's Kenobi comes across vaguely like he's a pretentious poser. As for Anakin, between the writing and the acting this character is made unlikable and unrelatable and pathetic in a totally non-endearing way. So, watching this fight, I really didn't give a fuck what happened to either character. Which doesn't help the scene. 

And the artificiality of the scene doesn't help you get genuine emotion out of it either. This scene should have great feeling, but mostly it just TELLS you to have great feeling rather than actually making you feel it. A classic example of the prequels failing at depth of feeling.

Overall I think the scene is one big load of meaningless pompous overdone show and one of the worst scenes I've ever seen in any film ever.

The Emperor and Yoda fight was awful. Horrible overacting for the Emperor. Annoying CGI Yoda with his macho posing that's so totally inappropriate for the character. It was hard to decide which character was more annoying. I wanted to flush both of them down the toilet. And that was intercut with the Mustafar scene, for maximum lameness.

Vader's nooooooo was a terrible moment. Between it being so totally unnecessary and cheesy and poorly judged and James Earl Jones's voice acting being uncharacteristically bad there. It was a real cringe moment. And let's not forget it was Hayden Christensen in the Darth Vader suit.

I don't remember anything in Indy 4 that was as bad as all this stuff. ROTS has to be one of the worst films of all time.

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Vaderisnothayden said:
skyjedi2005 said:

Even if Revenge of the Sith is by far and large critically and received by fans of the prequels as the best of the 3 the acting is horrible.  The Lightsaber duel was pretty awesome minus the rediculous riding over the lava on droids part, and was really trying to be a redo of duel of the fates from menace.  But Haydens " You underestimate my power"  was beyond bad acting.  And then of course you have the Emperor and Yoda acting like they are in a loony tunes cartoon.  And then Vader walking like Frankenstein and goin N000000000000000000!!!.   Nearly as bad as Shia swinging with monkeys like Tarzan in indiana jones 4, or the flying in a nuked fridge,lol.  Indiana had a nice three mile ride through the air and just gets up and dust himself off.

 

And then we have Anakin's ranting. When he rants about how from his point of view the Jedi are evil he looks like he's about to burst into tears like a little kid. When he screams "You underestimate my power!" the lameness factor is mind-boggling. And then later after he's been chopped up and fried he screams at Kenobi "I hate you!" like a little kid who's been denied a treat. I half expect to shout "If you don't say I won, I'll hold my breath until  you do!" Between the script and the talents of Hayden Christensen the character of Darth Vader is totally rubbed in the shit in this scene.

Overall I think the scene is one big load of meaningless pompous overdone show and one of the worst scenes I've ever seen in any film ever.

The Emperor and Yoda fight was awful. Horrible overacting for the Emperor. Annoying CGI Yoda with his macho posing that's so totally inappropriate for the character. It was hard to decide which character was more annoying. I wanted to flush both of them down the toilet. And that was intercut with the Mustafar scene, for maximum lameness.

 

 You guys don't like the PT?! And you don't like Hayden!!?! Or Indy 4!!? I had no idea!

I wonder if the topic of a thread was "Who Likes Birthday Cake" if you would respond with why you hate the PT.

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This is a thread about the PT. As such, constructive criticism of the PT is perfectly reasonable here. As it stands, a LOT more was said than "We don't like the PT." For example, my post is an in-depth examination of the Mustafar scene. Is in-depth analysis of Star wars scenes out of place on a Star Wars board? Is this place suddenly becoming TFN?

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Well, I for one love birthday cakes, even if they are shaped like Jar Jar's head.

Hehe, reading Vaderisnohayden's post reminded me of how contrived and obscenely ridiculous that Mustafar battle is. I think that was pretty much the perfect analysis of that scene. And it was damn funny to read.

I don't think this place is suddenly becoming TFN, I think some people are just getting tired of the constant negativity and the fact that we tend to turn every single thread into a discussion of how badly the PT sucks. After all, the topic at hand is, "relationships between the OT and the PT", in which rcb's obvious intention was to contrast the parallels between the two trilogies, not to compare which one was better than the other, and how one failed miserably while the other kicked the asses of multiple generations (and will continue to do so).

 

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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C3PX said:

Hehe, reading Vaderisnohayden's post reminded me of how contrived and obscenely ridiculous that Mustafar battle is. I think that was pretty much the perfect analysis of that scene. And it was damn funny to read.

I'm glad somebody liked it. :) 

I don't think this place is suddenly becoming TFN, I think some people are just getting tired of the constant negativity and the fact that we tend to turn every single thread into a discussion of how badly the PT sucks. After all, the topic at hand is, "relationships between the OT and the PT", in which rcb's obvious intention was to contrast the parallels between the two trilogies, not to compare which one was better than the other, and how one failed miserably while the other kicked the asses of multiple generations (and will continue to do so).

I don't think every thread turns into a discussion of why the PT sucks. And I do think we need to discuss why the PT sucks. It's an issue of importance to many of us and it's clear that many of us still want to discuss and explore that topic.

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You know what i forgot to add Obi Wan's Inane Dialogue to non Suit Hayden Vader.  " Anakin, don't try it i have the high ground"  Then Anakin " You underestimate my power"lol.

What does this have to do with the scope of this thread well very little other than the fact the prequels are an add on EU film series that are not the true promised origins of the oot discussed back in the day, and are rather laughable made up on the spot.  There are so many inconsistancies that Lucas had to recut the original trilogy twice to fit the growing scope of the prequel trilogy and the redux of star wars origins, that have nothing to do with the trilogy circa 1977-1983.  and Everything to do with the EU and Special Edition Exsplosion of the 90's.

Lucas vision of star wars rather than remain static has been a constantly evolving and Updated thing, so much so that no version of the movies is ever considered finished of the original trilogy they are all rough cuts to find that one perfect cut that fit his original vision.

Yeah i am as much guilty as the next person for wanting more star wars beyond the original trilogy the scope of the original three films is limited which makes the Zahn Trilogy and its further EU sequels of some worth since Lucas does not intend to do the sequel trilogy.   I was totally jazzed by the idea of the prequels or sequels trilogies.  In fact i enjoyed them quite a bit when i first saw them in the theater, and that includes the 1997 special edition.  They just don't hold up to well to repeat viewing.  

None of the prequels made me as depressed and betrayed feeling as i was when i left the theater after seeing Indiana Jones IV despite some moments i truly enjoyed in the film, the movie was totally uneven and ruined by Lucas stupid modern cgi sensibility of wackiness that some really get a kick out of. Like a bad parody of the older films i felt embarrassed at the cheesiness of the fridge scene.  Yeah it was funny i will admit, but only in a are you fucking kidding me kind of way.

I can appreciate to a certain degree the wacky sense of humor G. Lucas has.  Some stuff is kinda funny on a stupid kid kind of level, where other stuff is totally inept and unfunny like Jar Jar's Exquueze me, or stepping in poo.

 

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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"It's over Anakin! I have the goatee."

That's about how much sense it makes, when you really think about it.

The least they could have done is give Obi-Wan several more yards of higher ground, instead of a few feet. All Anakin had to do in the film was take a little jump, instead of a big one along with flips that leaves you seriously questioning his intelligence.

"Fuck you. All the star wars movies were excellent. none of them sucked. Also, revenge of the sith is the best."

- DarthZorgon (YouTube)

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skyjedi2005 said:

None of the prequels made me as depressed and betrayed feeling as i was when i left the theater after seeing Indiana Jones IV despite some moments i truly enjoyed in the film, the movie was totally uneven and ruined by Lucas stupid modern cgi sensibility of wackiness that some really get a kick out of. Like a bad parody of the older films i felt embarrassed at the cheesiness of the fridge scene.

 

"A bad parady of the older films", that is most definitely IJ:ATKOTKS (lol, love using the acronym) in a nut shell. Couldn't think of a better way to sum up that film, and to sum it up in a way that is literally shorter than its title no less!

 

 

EDIT: HA! See what I mean? Seriously! Let any thread in the General Star Wars Discussion go on long enough, and we'll turn it into a discussion about how badly the PT or IJATKOTKS sucks. I am truely impressed at our abilities. If you don't believe me, pick the first 10 threads on the page, scan through them, everyone that is at least a page or so long has had the crappiness of the PT brought up. And some of us have been doing this since before 2005. Talk about endurance! Lol, we are truely a force to be reckoned with, no doubt even the great Lord Total Biscuit and all his minions would be no match against just two or three of us. We are like freakin' Spartans!

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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 skyjedi2005 said:

You know what i forgot to add Obi Wan's Inane Dialogue to non Suit Hayden Vader.  " Anakin, don't try it i have the high ground"  Then Anakin " You underestimate my power"lol.

That high ground thing really didn't make much sense. The Jedi have been shown getting around worse obstacles. And they've been shown jumping so high that Annie should have been able to jump clean over Kenobi's lightsaber.

Lucas vision of star wars rather than remain static has been a constantly evolving and Updated thing, so much so that no version of the movies is ever considered finished of the original trilogy they are all rough cuts to find that one perfect cut that fit his original vision.

Well, his vision of it evolved during the great 76-83 Star wars period too, but none of that dose of revisionism betrayed the spirit of it or destroyed it the way his later revisionism did. Plus he was basically caught up in one long period of Star Wars creativity from making the first film through making ROTJ, but with the later stuff he seems to have taken a long break from Star wars and then come back with a totally different attitude. You can accept change more as part of the one same extended creative period. Leaving and coming back later with a totally different vision is different.

Yeah i am as much guilty as the next person for wanting more star wars beyond the original trilogy

I looked forward to the new Star wars films for so long. And after I'd waited the majority of two decades he gave us that shit.

None of the prequels made me as depressed and betrayed feeling as i was when i left the theater after seeing Indiana Jones IV despite some moments i truly enjoyed in the film, the movie was totally uneven and ruined by Lucas stupid modern cgi sensibility of wackiness that some really get a kick out of. Like a bad parody of the older films i felt embarrassed at the cheesiness of the fridge scene.  Yeah it was funny i will admit, but only in a are you fucking kidding me kind of way.

I don't hate Indy 4. I enjoyed seeing Ford back in the role. I like Shia LaBeouf and I think he makes a good son  for Indy. I have no problems with gophers or prarie dogs or whatever they were. But I have many issues with the film. If they had to do aliens they should have done classic aliens, not this silly interdimensional shit. And they should have done them in a way that involved more than a load of empty mysterious show. The aliens plot was done so badly. The film was blander than previous Indy films and things which should have felt harsh or threatening felt less so than equivalent things in previous Indy films. This film had less spirit and feeling than other Indy films. And the visual style had this bland washed out feel which really affects the feeling of the film. Certainly this film was an example of Indy being prequelized. We're kind of lucky Hayden didn't show up. Can you imagine if they'd cast Hayden instead of Shia?

Whereas, the later two prequels struck me as total shit on first viewing. With both of those films I expected something and on level of the film immediately previous and got something worse.

I can appreciate to a certain degree the wacky sense of humor G. Lucas has.  Some stuff is kinda funny on a stupid kid kind of level, where other stuff is totally inept and unfunny like Jar Jar's Exquueze me, or stepping in poo.

I could seriously do without his turning villains (such as the droid troopers and the Trade federation guys) into silly jokes in the prequels. And his stuffing silly humor into the OT in the SEs was beyond unacceptable. The OOT had some silly humor but it was restrained. It only went so far. It didn't descend into cartoon stuff, so cartoon stuff should not have been stuffed into it later.

 

Btw, I thought of another thing re that Mustafar scene and in general in the last two prequels: Between the writing and how Hayden played him, Anakin comes off awfully damn dumb. You're left with the notion that Anakin turned to the dark side because he was too dumb to know better. This is not consistent with the Vader and Anakin we know from the OT.