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redeeming lucas — Page 2

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But you're still not cool in my book, Adam.
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Definatly uncool
"Yub Knub" by Warrick Davis
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I'd be happy if he re-released the OOT and then decided to end Star Wars once and for all.

As the tagline for The Phantom Menace said, "Every Saga Has a Beginning". I agree. Every saga also has an end, too. Every story comes to an end. Film series, book series, TV series all end at some point because there's nothing else worth doing. Actors leave long-running TV series because they feel there's no more they can bring to their characters. Directors leave film series because they feel there's no more they can do with that world. It has to end sometime. I think he's holding on because he's scared to branch out. And I think we'll come to the point where Star Wars is basically like 24, filling in every single gap of time, finding out what every character does every second of his/her life. Please branch out. Please do something else. It's good for you. I swear.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Now that spark has been extinguished by years of resting on his laurels improving the special effect industry instead of his own directing style and techniques.


Which is a drastically oversimplified and almost soap-opera cardboard thin characterization that doesn't have much basis in anything but simplistic bullshit.

C'mon man. Study up on the dude. His "Spark" was always pretty low burning. The most heated he got was when his dad said he'd never make any money at it. He also hasn't really been "resting on his laurels" considering people keep forgetting he CREATED Indiana Jones, and guided that character through three different movies. His directing style has grown and changed, evolved, that's visible just by watching the Prequels themselves, how Episode I doesn't have the same visual quirks as Episode II, which isn't as polished or assured as Episode III. Plus, it's not as if trying to revolutionize the way movies are made is "resting on your laurels" that's some hard work, man. It's certainly not EASY by any stretch of the word.

The idea that he needs an "edge" is comedy, to me. Filmmaking is not prizefighting. Lots of filmmakers make good to great movies every year without being "Hungry" or "antsy" with the "eye of the tiger" or whatever. He's doing pre-prod on a movie about black pilots during World War II right now. You're telling me this is a guy who's lazy and fat and uncaring who doesn't care about telling his own stories anymore? Now THAT'S what doesnt' make sense to me. He finishes the Prequel Trilogy, with a story unique to almost ANY speculation and prediction that swirled around it, stuck with it for over a decade, and moves from that to a movie about fighter pilots in world war II and the problems they had to go up against and you're saying this guys doesn't like telling his own stories?

or is what you're REALLY saying that "I don't like his stories so much anymore."

One of those is not the same as the other. There's nothing wrong with disliking (strongly) what he's making anymore. but it's pretty irresponsible to start claiming all kinds of character flaws you're pulling from nowhere but ancient stereotypes of OTHER PEOPLE that you've seen in fiction and movies, and ascribing them to a guy simply because he changed some stuff in some movies he did.

That's all I'm saying.

he's the same guy. He's older, he's grown a little, but the same creative mind, exercising it in the same creative way. Results may vary. Picasso didn't paint a masterpiece everytime the brush hit the canvas. Not pleasing everybody isn't a sign that the artist doesn't CARE anymore. That's a false leap in logic.
The Best Show You've Never Heard
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Originally posted by: theredbaron
Redemption, IMHO, would take quite a lot: reunite with Kurtz, Kasdan, and Kershner to re-write and re-film the prequels, then de-assify the OT and give us a special edition without storyline changes.

Although he has no need to redeem himself IMO, that would be amazing nonetheless. And then we'd have a trilogy of trilogies after all.
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Originally posted by: CO
His last words to us would be, "Fans, take my helmet off so I can give you the original DVD's." Then he would be truly redeemed.


HA!

We don't have enough road to get up to 88.
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Bizzle.....I think the exact opposite of every single one of your points.

The Lucas who made those movies in the 70s and 80s is not the same Lucas of today, CREATIVELY. Other than guiding ESB, ROTJ, Raider, Temple of Doom and Last Crusade....the guy has done NOTHING. Certainly NOTHING on his own. Instead of challenging himself with new and varied directorial efforts, he did nothing, but build his little empire.

Which is a drastically oversimplified and almost soap-opera cardboard thin characterization that doesn't have much basis in anything but simplistic bullshit.

I'm not oversimplifying at all. I said that cuz I think it's that simple. The man didn't do shit for 16 years. Yeah, he developed the FX industry, but how involved was he? Was it him or was it the engineers that he hired to make his ideas a reality. It's easy to say, "I want to see this a certain way" or "How about we try this" or "This is what I want, can you make it happen." I give him the credit for leading the way, but did he really play THAT big of a role?

he's the same guy. He's older, he's grown a little, but the same creative mind, exercising it in the same creative way.


Nope....he's changed. And I will hold to my opinions as to why this is....no matter how irreponsible you think it is. What we are doing here is QUESTIONING Lucas and his output and we draw conclusions. There's nothing wrong with that. No one has to blindly accept whatever's given them. I don't accept the SEs or the PT...therefore I'm led to draw conclusions about its creator and his decisions.


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Ah, I love debate.

Hard to come at this from a non-biased standpoint. But I have to admit that posts by The Bizzle really make me think. And it is easier to pay attention because, like a lot of us, myself included, doesn't come across with the attitude of a rabid dog carrying a bone, which, whether or not it's actually true, makes him seem more like a voice of reason.

I agree with Cable that I doubt Lucas really had that much to do with revolutionizing the visual effects industry. To be sure, he's bankrolling it, but in terms of creative input, I doubt he knows much about it. I agree also that he hasn't been sitting on his laurels. There is nothing easy about making a film, and he has written and directed three Star Wars prequels. The quality of those movies is not really what's at debate here, so I'm not even going to mention that. Whatever anybody thinks about them, I'm sure they took a lot of time and effort to create. And I suppose it's presumptuous of any of us to determine whether or not the man has changed. I do agree that he's changed in the way he thinks about his earlier works, and I'll defend my opinion tooth and nail that movies should be left alone once they're finished. Not just Star Wars, not just things that I like, but all movies. My girlfriend and I rented Charlie Chaplin's The Gold Rush and watched it last night. The first disc, the main attraction, was the 1940s re-release with sound, but I went straight to the special features on the second disc and watched the original silent version. But I'm letting myself get off topic here.

Anyway, I also don't agree that he's not making his own stories anymore, because, obviously he is. And I agree with Bizzle that maybe it is us who just don't like his stories anymore. Well, we certainly have legitimate cause to complain about that, don't we?

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: booah
Originally posted by: CO
His last words to us would be, "Fans, take my helmet off so I can give you the original DVD's." Then he would be truly redeemed.


HA!


Would we burn his body later, with fireworks and Ewoks dancing?
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Originally posted by: ricarleite
Originally posted by: booah
Originally posted by: CO
His last words to us would be, "Fans, take my helmet off so I can give you the original DVD's." Then he would be truly redeemed.


HA!


Would we burn his body later, with fireworks and Ewoks dancing?


No, we would have to have Wookiees dancing, since it was his original vision.
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McCallum, on the other hand, gets his paycheck from Lucas, so it is a requirement that he kiss his ass in order to keep his job and get paid.


So, doesn't Lucas get his paycheck from us, the fans?

"A movie is not completed until it is released" - John Carpenter

The moment Star Wars was released in 1977, the public bought it. We own it. We deserve it. The way it was released in 1977. Lucas should thank his fans and release what we want/own. Then he can do what he wants with 'his' movies, I don't care. I think he is affraid to release the originals because he knows as well as us, they will out sell the SE's and PT by a mile, crushing his ego.
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And I agree with Bizzle that maybe it is us who just don't like his stories anymore. Well, we certainly have legitimate cause to complain about that, don't we?

No doubt, Gaffer. I have some of the same complaints you guys have with all the movies. I think his stories are still his, and he still wants to tell them, just some of us don't wanna hear em no more. Which is fine. There are PLENTY of stories to go around. There's never gonna be a shortage of those, yunno? I don't begrudge anyone their dislike of some movies. Sometimes the reasoning is odd, but sometimes the reasoning is sound, and it's just a diffrent strokes for diffrent folks kinda thing.

Other than guiding ESB, ROTJ, Raider, Temple of Doom and Last Crusade....the guy has done NOTHING.

LOL. You just named 5 huge blockbuster movies. That's like telling a basketball fan "Other than coaching two different teams to championships, Phil Jackson hasn't done nothin!!" Not counting stuff like Willow and Labyrinth which didn't set the boxoffice world on fire, but were pretty decent flicks in their own right. Also not counting "Tucker" which was always a story he wanted to tell, and got to tell with Coppola. Also not counting helping build up Pixar before selling it off, and helping grow ILM, (I like how you just write that off as "so what if he grew the industry" as if all he had to do was flip a switch and check off a clipboard) and raising three kids on his own.

Yeah. he aint done shit alright. Not counting those 5 multimillion blockbusters, of course.

What we are doing here is QUESTIONING Lucas and his output and we draw conclusions.


But this is my point--you're not basing those conclusions on ANYTHING SOLID AT ALL. you're pulling them out of your ass based on the fact you didn't like a couple movies. That's it. There's nothing solid for you to base anything that you said. It's vapor. It's years of soap-opera villainy and stereotypical plotlines from a bunch of made-for-tv biopic type stuff. There's nothing substantial there, nothing you can point to, to give your opinion any weight whatsoever. That's what I was trying to talk against. You're creating a stereotypical burnout out of thin air and bad fiction, and then slapping a "George Lucas" label on it, and then acting as if THAT IS THE TRUTH. It's silly. That's what I'm trying to call attention to.

The moment Star Wars was released in 1977, the public bought it. We own it. We deserve it


And I'm sorry, but this is bullshit, too. I understand the sentiment, but it makes zero sense. The public didn't BUY Star Wars. you bought a ticket to WATCH IT. It's not a transference of ownership. You watching it a lot doesn't mean you bought SHARES in it, even if you bought so much stuff you COULD HAVE. All that ticket does is allow you to sit in someone else's theater and look at someone else's art for your own entertainment. Never, at any point, does anything but the memory of that experience stay yours. Next time you're in a theater, try telling the owner part of that theater is yours because you buy tickets there. Next time you're at the grocery store, try telling the checkout clerk the store is yours because you bought Raisin Bran there last week.

Ticket sales and DVD sales aren't binding ownership contracts. You bought a DVD, you didn't buy ownership rights to the film itself.

The Best Show You've Never Heard
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LOL. You just named 5 huge blockbuster movies. That's like telling a basketball fan "Other than coaching two different teams to championships, Phil Jackson hasn't done nothin!!" Not counting stuff like Willow and Labyrinth which didn't set the boxoffice world on fire, but were pretty decent flicks in their own right. Also not counting "Tucker" which was always a story he wanted to tell, and got to tell with Coppola.


You forgot Howard the Duck.
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LOL. Except the Holiday Special was gutted and stuffed and bore little to no resemblance to what he really wanted, and Howard The Duck wasn't a movie he had any creative control over, he paid for it as a favor to Willard Huyck and Gloria Katz for their work on both Star Wars and Indiana Jones. He made no creative suggestions, he put his name on it to try and get it more money for his partners. That's about it.

But good try with the Howard the Duck thing. You'd probably be better off blaming him for Return to Oz, since he had to take over producing and some directorial duties for his friend Gary Kurtz after Kurtz left the production and Murch fell ill. At least with Return to Oz he actually dabbled in on-set duties.
The Best Show You've Never Heard
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“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Originally posted by: skyjedi2005
star wars should be turned over to someone else.

There are plenty of tangental stories left to tell because the entire star wars universe encompasses 50,000 plus years. Plus the skywalker saga is far from over as rotj ended on a cliffhanger leaving room for 7-9.
ROTJ had a cliffhanger ending? I must have been watching an episode of the muppet show for all these years...

War does not make one great.

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Originally posted by: theredbaron


THE TRAGEDY OF GEORGE LUCAS
'97 SE, EPI, II, 2004 DVDs, III...



LOL!
I remember 1997, when i was;" the SE is coming out! and after we'll get the new trilogy!!!"
now i'm more; "the SE?.... you mean:the beginnig of the end?"

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Originally posted by: skyjedi2005
star wars should be turned over to someone else.

There are plenty of tangental stories left to tell because the entire star wars universe encompasses 50,000 plus years. Plus the skywalker saga is far from over as rotj ended on a cliffhanger leaving room for 7-9.


No way. A 7-9 would be cool, that's for sure, but it doesn't work well ijn the overall story. IMHO, it would feel more like a continuation than part of the original story. Though I do believe it would work well as a TV series. And I don't think I would call it a cliffhanger ending. I think it leaves you with something to think about. It makes you wonder what happens next, yet you don't see it on film. I like that. You are left to imagine those details... unless you read the Thrawn trilogy, the NJO, and all post-ROTJ novels!
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IMHO, it would feel more like a continuation than part of the original story.




Like the PT!!

http://i.imgur.com/7N84TM8.jpg