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my memory isn't that bad, is it? (in SW '77 - Luke misses with the grappling hook?) — Page 5

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No, there was a clip of it on starwars.com or something.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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Oh, phew, thanks. I'm glad to know my mind isn't going.

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No, you're not losing your mind.  It was visible only in the theater

presentation of 77 and 78.

 

See my response about this issue in the 'CED' thread.

 

Ill bet that somewhere, there's a vid of the old talkshows

where Lucas admitted that he cut the missed grap hook throw scene

when he added the "A NEW HOPE" banner.  

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i replied to your post in the CED thread but i thought it would be suitable to post it in here too.

I'm sorry clone_wolf, but you are completely wrong with it being in there only in the theatrical release prior to ANH being added. It wasn't and there is physical proof with the 1977 bootleg of star wars. You also need to listen to the commentary again because NOWHERE does Burtt mention that in ANH luke initially misses. here's what Burrt says:

We had at one time a scene where Obi-Wan and Padme fire a wire across an abyss and swing across together. It very much recalls the fun of the first Star Wars. And they were quite charming in the scene, 'cause she had to hang onto him. He had trouble getting the cable across. It kinda bounces off the first time and he has to reel it in and shoot a second time and she's kinda like, you know, "Jedi, huh?"

He's talking about the Obi-Wan/Padme scene and NOT the original star wars scene with Luke and Leia.

I'm also one of the "old farts" that saw it countless times in 1977 and that scene was never in there. At 10 years old i saw it so many times that i could recite the script word for word. I was also given a bootleg VHS the following year and there was nothing different in the chasm scene. The only differences were the lines of dialogue between the monomix and the stereo mix, and these differences were in there in 1977 and not changed when they added the A New Hope title.

There is also proof with the musical score. There is no section that this could be placed

And if that interview ever existed with Lucas admitting that scene was originally in the film on such a national talk show then some proof of this would have emerged by now, but it hasn't.

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

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Yet another case of "Phantom Grappling Hook Syndrome". Check out this link for an article on the nature of memory.

http://www.cracked.com/article_18704_5-mind-blowing-ways-your-memory-plays-tricks-you.html

It might surprise people just how much Star Wars stuff is preserved from the early 80's and some record of a George Lucas interview (video or magazine article) would have surfaced by now.

As for visual evidence of the missing scene, bootleg videos taken from 1977 prints are available on the net and believe it or not, actual film prints (both 35mm and 70mm) exist in the hands of private collectors. If the scene existed, news of it would have leaked onto the internet following one of the many "private screenings" we often hear about.

I'll throw down a challenge open to anyone all over the world.

You find and post video evidence of this scene , then I will give you 100 English Pounds for finding it.

However, my guess is it's as rare as rocking horse poo !!!

 

Your brain just makes s**t up!

A fate worse than death? Having your head digitally replaced with that of Hayden Christensen!

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Sorry to beat a dead horse but I've just found this article about a Star Wars bibliographer.

http://www.starwars.com/fans/profiles/20090211.html

If someone would go to this much trouble to collect every single printed reference to Star Wars, don't you think that someone would have collected every TV appearance of George Lucas? Especially a late 70's/early 80's interview in which he talks about the changes he's made to the films.

That's why we doubt this interview aired.

Your brain just makes s**t up!

A fate worse than death? Having your head digitally replaced with that of Hayden Christensen!

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I remember the missing the grappling the first time too. Wow that brought back memories.

 

Also I clearly remember the Han torture scene extended in Empire. Not just the stills of it but of the actual whole scene in the movie.

A long time ago that was.

Battle droids the robotic incarnations of Jar Jar Binks.

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Filthy Pierre said:

I remember the missing the grappling the first time too. Wow that brought back memories.

Also I clearly remember the Han torture scene extended in Empire. Not just the stills of it but of the actual whole scene in the movie.

Thread Title said:

my memory isn't that bad, is it?

Yes it is. I'm sorry, but your memory really is that bad - just like all humans.

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Kurgan said:

A false Star Wars movie memory from me:

I always recalled in RoTJ since I was a kid that after the Ewok glider gets shot down that you see a shot of the Ewoks watching from the trees and then you see the AT-ST stomp on and smashing (walking over) the fallen glider.

Once I got the DVD I realized we never actually see this happen, though its pretty clearly implied by the editing. Glider falls... we see the ewok reaction shot and a close up of the fallen glider and then we see the walking legs. No actual smashing going on (and no, as a kid I didn't cover my eyes!). Obviously my imagination filled it in, though!

Less of a false memory and just forgetting, my younger brother and I listened to the ROTJ storybook & record so much (before we had a recording of the actual movie), we forgot that many of the lines in it are different from the film.

I liked that one so much I plopped it into the Wishlist thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

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I read the nerd blog Topless Robot regularly and whilst reading the SW Blu-ray FAQ I noticed this conversation going on in the comments:

I saw Empire Strikes Back when I was 9.

I could swear to God, Satan, Jesus, Dumbledore, Vishnu, Allah, Zeus and Tom Cruise's sopping bunghole that in the version I saw in the theater, the scene where Luke falls off the antenna thing on Bespin onto the Falcon, included Lando GOING OUT ONTO THE SHIP to get him and saying, "I got you, kid."

I have never seen that version ever again. Am I nuts? Why would I dream that? Did anyone else ever see that version?

I remember that scene too.

Same here. I thought it was still in the film, actually (can you tell I only watch the originals? ;)). Did they remove it? oO

that's what i remember

I too remember that scene. I think that was from it running on TV when I was about 6 or so (would have been around the time when Jedi came out in the theaters)

I remember that scene too.

ive seen it i though perhaps i was mistaken   thank god im not crazy

 

I don't think I've heard of this before, but that's quite a few people misremembering the same thing. Is there any explanation to this?

Possibly the novel, comic adaptation, radio play etc?

 

"Well here's a big bag of rock salt" - Patton Oswalt

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One person "remembers" that scene based on decades-olds memories conflating deleted-scene-pics, parts from the comic or novel, or just plum made up (I mean, Lando had to go out there and get Luke, so it's natural to imagine how that would have gone).

Then, based on the suggestion from that one guy, it triggers or creates the same phenomena in others.

It actually happens all the time.

Notice it's "when I saw it in the theater" (thirty-one years ago!) or "on TV when I was five or six". Or they had it on tape but haven't seen the tape in twenty years. Always, without fail. It's always some vague half-remembered thing from early childhood or from so long ago that most of the people reading the posts weren't even alive yet. This is no coincidence.

The Secret History of Star Wars -- now available on Amazon.com!

"When George went back and put new creatures into the original Star Wars, I find that disturbing. It’s a revision of history. That bothers me."

--James Cameron, Entertainment Weekly, April 2010

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Well I'm not saying it's true or that I believe them, but having never been exposed to any of the supplementary materials that I listed above I thought it's likely there's some thing out there to give a bunch of people this false memory.

Like the fact people swear they saw the Biggs and Luke Yavin reunion back in cinemas in '77 but that footage was featured in a television special wasn't it? I thought this could be something similar and someone could point me to a specific example.

I find it such an odd and interesting phenomenon.

 

"Well here's a big bag of rock salt" - Patton Oswalt

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 (Edited)

I have been asking my friends and families about the missed grappling.

I ask, "In the chasm scene, how many times does Luke toss the grapping hook?" Everyone says 2 except my gf who said 3.

When I asked my best friend, he said, "A Jedi wouldn't miss." I was like wow, that's fricking meta.

I've also been asking what are the names of the characters in the wizard of oz who chant OOOOOO WEEE OOOOOO OOOO OH! The best answer I got was, "Aren't those the playing cards?" I said, "That's Alice!" His response was,"I'm pretty sure you're wrong."

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 (Edited)

BasiliskFang said:


I've also been asking what are the names of the characters in the wizard of oz who chant OOOOOO WEEE OOOOOO OOOO OH! The best answer I got was, "Aren't those the playing cards?" I said, "That's Alice!" His response was,"I'm pretty sure you're wrong."


Jeez, what a maroon. The answer is obviously Mr. Burns' men.

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Three throws of the grappling hook?  People remember the weirdest things.

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Luke tried twice, and missed both times. Then Liea tried, and gets it on her first attempt.....but Lucas edited it so it looks like Luke was successful.

Star Wars Episode XXX: Erica Strikes Back

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Disagree. I thought Erica was back and when I realized she wasn’t it made me sad.

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 (Edited)

I am another who clearly remembers Luke missing with his first attempt of the grappling hook in the Death Star chasm. (My memory is that he made good contact on the first attempt, but the hook didn’t catch, so not an air shot.) I originally saw Star Wars at the Glenwood Theatre in Overland Park, KS, from a first-week engagement 35mm Dolby Stereo print. I think I saw it seven times there before I saw it anywhere else. I have recently reviewed this scene both on the Blu-ray Disc and the YouTube video linked below. I’ll refer to the times in the YouTube video as reference of some things I’ve picked up on. Maybe this will give a new perspective on this.

At 1:49: It appears Luke is preparing to throw the grappling hook. This is super quick and can easily be missed, or probably interpreted differently. Watch it a few times and closely watch the movement of his hand, body, face and eyes; and the grappling hook appearing for just an instant. I think the biggest clue is that he looks up intently at his aim point.

At 1:55: Luke begins unspooling the grappling hook line from the stormtrooper utility belt he is wearing. It is quickly clear that he does not already have a loop pulled from the belt at this point, although he was already unreeling and looping it previously.

Between these two we have 5 7/8 seconds (141 frames) of four shots which I believe are inserts.

  • (13 frames) 0.54 seconds of Luke behind Leia as she fires twice. (a great continuity match for Leia from the previous shot, but not for Luke).
  • (12 frames) 0.5 second with the shots missing the stormtrooper and him firing back.
  • (31 frames) 1.29 seconds of the shots missing and Leia firing a single shot back.
  • (85 frames) 3.54 seconds of a wide shot of the chasm with Luke still unspooling line.

Now watch it again paying careful attention to the music. Then go back to about 1:40 or earlier and listen again without watching (eyes closed if necessary). At 1:50 I hear from the music exactly when Luke makes his first throw. At 1:56 I hear exactly when he begins his second attempt (the start of the second unspooling). That gives him about 5 seconds to reel the line back into the utility belt after he misses, before starting to unreel it again.

This leaves me with two possible theories to explain this. (My opinion is that the first is more likely, and the second likely accounts for others remembering the same thing even though they didn’t see a print from the original engagement.)

  1. A portion, if not all, of the 35 exclusive first-run 35mm Dolby Stereo prints were struck with the 5 7/8 seconds of Luke missing and reeling the line back in. The alteration with the inserts replacing those 5 7/8 seconds was likely made prior to the striking of the 8 70mm Dolby 6-track exclusive first-run prints. It was almost certainly made prior to striking any additional prints, including the 35mm monaural prints. The prints containing the original 5 7/8 seconds were likely never seen again after being returned to the studio. (I think this would fit in perfectly with the George Lucas who never can stop tinkering and never considers his work a finished product for very long, with the changes made between the 70mm and 35mm prints of ESB as an example.)

  2. The combination of the music for the scene combined with what is seen around these 5 7/8 seconds is so suggestive that it has lead many of us to believe that Luke missed, even though we never saw it that way.

John Williams’ music seems so perfectly tailored to, and suggestive of Luke making two grappling attempts that I find it extremely difficult to believe it was any other way when he scored the scene. I think it likely at some point after Williams’ score was complete, Lucas must have decided to cover up the failed attempt. Just my speculation at this point, but I think it may have been to better match the final battle. My understanding is that Luke was intended to have a failed trench run before Marcia Lucas edited it to the form seen in the final movie (apparently and thankfully before it was scored), and George may have decided (just after the last minute) that he wanted Luke’s grappling attempt in the chasm to mirror that change. As the scene is now, it seems like Luke is unspooling enough line to reach the Falcon, or maybe even Yavin. I’d love to see the original assembly again, the one Williams scored. I say again because I do believe I saw it back in 1977.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECN-Q7tWg8M

I did once read the Alan Dean Foster novel, so it is possible that influenced my memory. However, I don’t have a history of remembering false things about movies I’ve seen. The only other thing I clearly remembered different between Star Wars in the theater in 1977 and when I first saw it again later (on CED Video Disc), is that there was no “Episode IV A New Hope” in 1977, which of course ended up being verified. For the Empire Strikes Back I remembered the hologram for one of the Star Destroyer captains conferring with Vader disappearing immediately after an asteroid is shown striking the bridge. That of course was never visible in the pan and scan home video releases and I was always disapointed it wasn’t there, probably one of the reasons I’m an original aspect ratio advocate.

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 (Edited)

I wonder if you’re thinking of a trailer for the movie? Sometimes they put things in trailers but not the movie. For example when a Tie Fighter rises up to confront Jyn and has her in its sights as she’s on the parapet outside of a tower on Scarif.

Or maybe you’re thinking of the fact that it takes Luke a (seemingly) long time to uncoil the rope?

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 (Edited)

surroundsound99 said:

I wonder if you’re thinking of a trailer for the movie? Sometimes they put things in trailers but not the movie. For example when a Tie Fighter rises up to confront Jyn and has her in its sights as she’s on the parapet outside of a tower on Scarif.

Or maybe you’re thinking of the fact that it takes Luke a (seemingly) long time to uncoil the rope?

I’m quite sure the answer to the first item is no. All of the (known) trailers are available and none contain this. I certainly agree that trailers often contain additional footage or alternate takes. I’m also quite sure I never saw a trailer for Star Wars before seeing it the first time. I had never been to that theater or any other where Star Wars was first shown, and had only ever been to the movies 2 or 3 times before that. I heard about it by word of mouth, and was invited to go with neighbors to see it.

Again, watch the specific shots I pointed out at 1:49 and 1:55 very carefully. They give the clues to what should be between them. Then listen to the music very carefully. I believe the music very clearly tells the story as well. I believe the changes (inserts) were frame for frame replacements (141 replacing 141), so there was no change to the music or timing necessary.

I have carefully listened and compared the audio recording of the 70mm presentation at New Jersey’s Triplex Paramus during its initial run (link below). I’m quite sure that the frames with Luke’s missed attempt were not present here. The audio well matches the blaster shots in the inserts that replaced it, with no sound that would match a missed grappling attempt (or reeling the line back into the belt). This is why I think if anything, the alteration was made before the eight first-run 70mm prints were struck, leaving only the thirty-five first-run 35mm prints as possibly containing the full missed attempt shot.

http://www.wideanglecloseup.com/starwarsaudio.html (The chasm scene is near the end of Part2.)

Again, I certainly consider it possible that the combination of the music for the scene combined with what is seen around these 5 7/8 seconds is so suggestive that it has lead many of us to believe that Luke missed, even though we never saw it that way. However, I think it is more likely that some of us actually saw it, and even more likely it was that way when Williams scored it.

Another possibility is that Lucas convinced Fox to send this 141 frame replacement to the theaters shortly after the premier, with instructions for the theaters to make the edits. That kind of alteration was certainly done with 2001: A Space Odyssey in 1968. However, I think it unlikely that Fox would have done this in 1977. This was a first run exclusive, not a roadshow presentation like 2001, and I doubt Fox would have been anxious to participate in that kind of alteration to what had just become their greatly unexpected super-hit. Lucas of course was tinkering at every opportunity (as evidenced by the changes in the monaural soundtrack for the general release he and Ben Burtt made a month later).

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OK. I had not remembered Luke throwing and missing once, but when I read this thread it jogged a memory NOT of Luke throwing and missing, but of when I finally saw Starwars on pay cable (maybe 3 years (ca. 1980?) after seeing it in the theater.) I now vaguely remember feeling that scene was not shorter on TV.

I don’t remember if he threw and missed though that does seem vaguely familiar now that you mention it, but I do remember the scene seeming to be a over quicker.

It may just be that at 4 years old and seeing it for the first time in 1977 that I really was terrified that they were about to die and that made it seem longer, but it is interesting to me in light of all the people who seem to remember Luke throwing twice.

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For me it’s more that I remember the distinct impression that something had changed the first time I saw it in general release in 1978. I remember at that time questioning whether I really remembered Luke missing the previous 6 or 7 times I saw the movie (first run)? Of course at that time I was under the impression that movies were carved in stone and never changed once they were released. As I previously described I don’t believe there was any difference in the length of the scene. A change in the length would require alteration to the music. I simply believe that 141 frames that may have originally shown Luke missing in the 35 first run 35mm prints, were replaced with a different 141 frames that don’t show Luke missing in all other prints. No change in time or music.