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kk650's Star Wars Saga: Regraded and Semi-Specialized (Released) — Page 2

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 (Edited)

Cheers emanswfan and frank678 for checking out the preview clip! :)

You both liked it so i've probably got the amount of green about right.

I can put up another 3 minute preview clip if you want, just post the timecode you want me to start from and i'll create a preview clip (of course let me know which version of star wars you're taking the timecode from, whether the blu-ray or the gout).

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Looking good!

There's still a lot of purple in the flashes however.

GOUT comparison:

I included the other frames because I saw something kind of cool; the squib in this shot seems to go nuts, flying right off the wall over the actors! I watched the movie a hundred times and never noticed this.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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NeverarGreat said:

Looking good!

There's still a lot of purple in the flashes however.

GOUT comparison:

I included the other frames because I saw something kind of cool; the squib in this shot seems to go nuts, flying right off the wall over the actors! I watched the movie a hundred times and never noticed this.

Thanks, glad you liked it! :)

Hmm, thanks for pointing that flash out. You got me rummaging through all my stuff to find my limited edition star wars bonus dvd haha.

I've never really considered the bonus dvd to be all that useful as a colour/brightness/contrast/saturation reference and having a look at the disc again after more than a year really reminds me why.  That whole shot on the gout dvd is really desaturated, hence why the flash looks more white than in my clip. The different hue on the flash on the dvd is also most likely connected to the overly red fleshtones of luke and leia and so is also most likely incorrect if one wants to recreate the look of the film prints.

You can actually see that the fleshtones of luke and leia on the gout dvd are wrong in that whole section and indeed in the whole film IMHO, WAY too much red, only its not so obvious because everything is so desaturated that the fleshtones almost look normal. Only problem with that approach is, all the other colours are desaturated as well, not just the reds in the fleshtones, so everything else just looks so grey, dull and lifeless, totally unlike those shots taken from film prints and screenings that have lovely rich colours.

If this section on the gout dvd was at the same level of saturation and contrast as my clip, luke and leia would look like sunburnt lobster men.

No, i'm happy with the flash in the screencap you posted from my preview clip, the gout isn't at all reliable as a source colourwise IMHO when trying to recreate the look of the film prints, its totally desaturated and the fleshtones are off due to being way too red, so most likely the rest of the colours can't be trusted either. A film print pic of that flash or indeed any frame in that shot though would certainly be far more useful in ascertaining what the colour of that flash should be.

As for the squib, haha I never noticed that before! Very cool indeed. :)
 

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Some of the flashes are quite purple on the prints, I'll dig out some reference frames.

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poita said:

Some of the flashes are quite purple on the prints, I'll dig out some reference frames.

 Thanks I would really appreciate it! :)

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 (Edited)

Here's a second preview clip using the same settings as the first clip. Guys, please check it out as well and let me know what you think:

https://mega.co.nz/#!P5AnXZBa!HoiprRML4uFI1dRLuKpvTVPgPVU_uZOsEHKhcohanqQ

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Hmm, I just tried my latest settings on the death star run and was not satisfied with the results, I was just getting a feeling of underexposure, even though the rest of the film felt correctly exposed.

I've adjusted the settings to get a exposure that feels right on the death star run but of course the exposure has increased in the rest of the film. Now i'm beginning to understand why the film prints always seemed so bright and borderline overexposed to me, perhaps that's the way star wars has always looked.

Guys, please have a look at these two very short clips from the control room, the first using my old settings and the second using my latest settings and tell me, which do you prefer and does the second clip seem overexposed to you? I'm so used to seeing the underexposed star wars blu-ray footage that I find it difficult to tell.

Clip 1 (old settings):

https://mega.co.nz/#!PhBETSzS!ab11kx2FXYXCylEMP_J6HjDagVBWCyOj6zs7QnU6rLQ

Clip 2 (new settings)

https://mega.co.nz/#!PxoBwZZb!R9KBKARtJDxeM55jhqSetkbjY5oxpaxdPJBquILWqno

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My personal preference is the first one, since I like slightly underexposed.

However, the second one seems more like Star Wars is supposed to look like.

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emanswfan said:

My personal preference is the first one, since I like slightly underexposed.

However, the second one seems more like Star Wars is supposed to look like.

I agree with you 100%.

I have to go with the second one even if part of me prefers the first one, the second just feels more 'right' for star wars based on the film print shots i've seen.

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Okay, here are the two preview clips regraded with the latest settings:

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Preview Clip 1 using old settings:

https://mega.co.nz/#!u8whlTBT!etypokJ6EoWe11FJyb3DeSKeUVEZ8Ars8KJuCtbwToU

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Preview Clip 1 using new settings:

https://mega.co.nz/#!K5ZVGZIK!MNDaORCIVcc-ymnF6OWH5DivXccun0D_Fbq0_a6bdWo

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Preview Clip 2 using old settings:

https://mega.co.nz/#!P5AnXZBa!HoiprRML4uFI1dRLuKpvTVPgPVU_uZOsEHKhcohanqQ

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Preview Clip 2 using new settings:

https://mega.co.nz/#!WlIFTb7K!MEBs_Vt2FVd-N2OoumtFum3iBdoipKXXbVK-eMgVZ6g

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I'd appreciate it if everybody could check these clips and let me know whether you think the clips using the new settings look better than the clips using the old settings.

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No replies yet? Maybe I should have said 'I'd appreciate it if ANYBODY could check these two clips and let me know whether you think they look overexposed' haha.

Come on guys, please help me out here. Let me know what you think. Did my old settings look better or do the clips look better with my latest settings? Is it the 500mb video files making people reluctant to check these clips out even though the download speed is very quick? I can regrade them at a lower bitrate no problem to make the files smaller if that's the issue.

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Downloading now, but the downloads are painfully slow here, might take a while.

Donations welcome: paypal.me/poit
bitcoin:13QDjXjt7w7BFiQc4Q7wpRGPtYKYchnm8x
Help get The Original Trilogy preserved!

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 (Edited)

poita said:

Downloading now, but the downloads are painfully slow here, might take a while.

Thank you, with you having direct access to the film prints themselves your thoughts will be invaluable.

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Just going back to the screengrabs on page one, I like the look, but it is more like how Star Wars would look if graded for today's audience, and is way more contrasty and way more saturated than any of the prints.

That isn't necessarily a bad thing, people expect and prefer that look now, but the 70s prints are much less saturated, which was common in films of that era. If you want to recreate the original look, then you would need to change the grade a lot. But if you want a pleasing, more lush look, then this is great, it is really rich.

Donations welcome: paypal.me/poit
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poita said:

Just going back to the screengrabs on page one, I like the look, but it is more like how Star Wars would look if graded for today's audience, and is way more contrasty and way more saturated than any of the prints.

That isn't necessarily a bad thing, people expect that look now, but the 70s prints are much less saturated, which was common in films of that era.

Those screencaps were taken using the old settings that has a higher contrast setting and look more saturated than they should because they were taken directly from the preview of the program I use to regrade, that always has more saturated colours than the resulting encodes. You'll be able to judge more accurately the image dynamics from the videos themselves.

As for being more saturated than the prints though, i've seen a lot of shots taken from prints than have punchy colours with rich technicolour fleshtones, like the senator shots. Surely the colours are meant to have that richness to them rather than being desaturated like the GOUT? I'm trying to reproduce a technicolour film print feel with these settings.

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Nope, the prints don't have really lush colour, (but the GOUT colour pallete is way off in places) it is the camera taking the photos that is punching up the vibrancy at the Senator screening etc. I have a technicolour print in front of me right now, and the colour is nowhere near as vibrant. I have seen another Tech print, and prints taken from the french negative, and in all cases, the images aren't washed out, but aren't 'punchy' either.

Also, if you read interviews with the DOPs and others that worked on the film, they were going for a softer, more gauzy look, which fits in with how the prints look.

below is an example, Aussie Tech-IB on the top, grab from your front page on the bottom.

As I said, I like the look you are creating, but it is much more in line with a late 90s to early 2000s look, rather than how the originals looked in the 1970s.

Film just doesn't do those deep deep blacks, (negatives do of course, but the prints we saw in the cinema didn't).

The push towards deep (crushed sometimes) blacks and pushed whites is a more contemporary taste, it wasn't popular in 70s cinema.

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kk650 said:

Those screencaps were taken using the old settings that has a higher contrast setting and look more saturated than they should because they were taken directly from the preview of the program I use to regrade, that always has more saturated colours than the resulting encodes. You'll be able to judge more accurately the image dynamics from the videos themselves.

 Cool, the downloads are slowly making their way to my computer.

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poita said:

Nope, the prints don't have really lush colour, (but the GOUT colour pallete is way off in places) it is the camera taking the photos that is punching up the vibrancy at the Senator screening etc. I have a technicolour print in front of me right now, and the colour is nowhere near as vibrant. I have seen another Tech print, and prints taken from the french negative, and in all cases, the images aren't washed out, but aren't 'punchy' either.

Also, if you read interviews with the DOPs and others that worked on the film, they were going for a softer, more gauzy look, which fits in with how the prints look.

below is an example, Aussie Tech-IB on the top, grab from your front page on the bottom.

As I said, I like the look you are creating, but it is much more in line with a late 90s to early 2000s look, rather than how the originals looked in the 1970s.

Film just doesn't do those deep deep blacks, (negatives do of course, but the prints we saw in the cinema didn't).

The push towards deep (crushed sometimes) blacks and pushed whites is a more contemporary taste, it wasn't popular in 70s cinema.

Thanks for explaining all that, very fascinating indeed!

My new settings does actually make that screencap from the first page look more similar to the Aussie Tech-IB, with brighter blacks. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the clips and which of the settings you prefer.

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Oh sorry, I actually started downloading these right after you posted them, and viewed them and forgot to post my comments.

I like your new settings a lot more, though if you can get it closer to the print Poita is showing, it might make more sense for your project's purposes.

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I don't get it. Why do you guys want to watch Star Wars as an old faded film print?

Let the flames begin. They always do when I post my opinion on here...

Keep the old settings, much nicer.

I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.

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vbangle said:

I don't get it. Why do you guys want to watch Star Wars as an old faded film print?

Let the flames begin. They always do when I post my opinion on here...

Keep the old settings, much nicer.

 The TechIB prints aren't faded, the colour and contrast will be (for all intents and purposes) exactly the same as the day they were shown in the cinema.

So it isn't about wanting to watch an old faded print, it is about wanting to watch a piece of cinema the way it was originally presented, and in most cases originally intended. Star Wars has a muted pallete, which is inkeeping with the 'used' universe it was set in.

Tastes change over the years, so if one was to release Star Wars today, one would give it the 'Blockbuster Pallete', i.e. push blue into the shadows and orange into the midtones/highlights. Crush the blacks and apply heavy sharpening. Then it will look a lot more like Ironman, The Avengers, Transformers etc. etc. i.e. it would look more like a current film.

You could also update the effects as they will still look all 70s and maybe replace some shots with better CGI ones to make the film better.

Oh wait...

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Mostly kidding about the last bit.

There are two (or more) ways to approach old movies, watching them as close as possible to the way they were originally presented, warts and all, or updating them to be more acceptable to a modern audience.

Both have their pros and cons, I think both can exist together, but if there could only be one version, I would want it to be as close to the original as possible, it is a part of history, a massively shared experience and deserves to be preserved and watched that way.

A cleaned up, re-graded version that remove some of the more glaring glitches is also a great thing to have.

Up until now, the first one has eluded us, no-one could sit down and see just how Star Wars looked in 1977, we finally will be able to rectify that.

Other versions with different timings and adjustments are also being made by multiple people here , each with their own personal view of how the film could look its best, and putting them out there for everyone to enjoy...that is also very cool.

Donations welcome: paypal.me/poit
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 (Edited)

kk650 said:

No replies yet? Maybe I should have said 'I'd appreciate it if ANYBODY could check these two clips and let me know whether you think they look overexposed' haha.

Come on guys, please help me out here. Let me know what you think. Did my old settings look better or do the clips look better with my latest settings? Is it the 500mb video files making people reluctant to check these clips out even though the download speed is very quick? I can regrade them at a lower bitrate no problem to make the files smaller if that's the issue.

 I think the newer settings are a bit better, but the blacks are a bit too low, (too far under 16,16,16) and the colour saturation seems a bit too high for me. Also there is a bit of inconsistency shot to shot. Han's shirt is almost lemon yellow in that opening sequence and the faces are too orange. The highlights have been clipped, so the faces have gone a little leathery. Contrast it to the next shot from your same clip, where Han's shirt is closer to the correct hue.

BTW, what colour are the walls in the room your are doing the correcting in? If they are not neutral, then hang an off-white sheet on the wall behind your monitor, it helps keep your colour perception accurate.

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I like the direction of the color overall, but noticed the highlights are being pushed to the point of clipping in bright scenes. For example look at these shots (Bluray on top, your grade on the bottom).

What's lost in the Bluray can't be brought back but there is a natural fall-off to the highlights that becomes a hard clip in your grades. Are you doing shot-by-shot color adjustment or trying to come up with one setting that works for a whole scene or the whole film?

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I always found the lack of pink on this card to be telling.  Thanks to stsw2112 for the pic.