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kk650's Star Wars Saga: Regraded and Semi-Specialized (Released) — Page 8

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Here's an example of a shot missing the cone of light. I don't have the OOT with me right now, but a comparison to it should show an outline of the projector beam.

EDIT: Here's a comparison shot. 

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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Hmm, i've checked althor1138's COLD edition and I see what you mean about the cone of light missing in two shots facing R2D2 on the special edition releases.

However, after watching that scene in the garage numerous times, I think that in terms of visual continuety, the SE releases are an improvement on the GOUT and japanese laserdisc version, the reason being that in all the other shots facing R2D2 without leia in the shot, the cone of light is not visible on all the versions.

So this means that with the GOUT and Japanese release, the cone is not visible when facing R2D2 without leia in the shot for the whole garage scene apart from two specific shots facing R2D2 where the cone suddenly appears out of nowhere, which doesn't make much sense IMHO.

In the SE releases the cone of light is never visible when looking directly at R2D2 without leia in the shot, which in terms of visual continuety makes much more sense. The cone is only visible when the hologram of leia is visible in the SE releases, which also makes sense to me. This looks more to me like a correction by Lucasfilm to maintain continuety in the scene rather than forgetfulness IMHO.

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Hadn't considered it that way; interesting indeed. 

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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I don't think that's what it is.  There are other places also in the SE's where, when digitally recompositing the original effects, they forgot to include every element.  There are missing lights on matte paintings in both SW and ESB, and a missing lightsaber flash frame when Luke cuts himself free of the ice cave, to name a few that I can remember off the top of my head.

Maybe they couldn't find every element and figured no one would notice, but it's equally likely they didn't notice these things themselves.  Either way, the redone versions don't entirely do justice to the original work, even if they do technically improve on it in some ways.

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I see what you're saying hairy_hen from but none of those omissions you've mentioned i've ever noticed and i've gone through these films so many times regrading/editing them. Something only becomes an issue to me if i'm able to notice it while watching the film in motion and i've never noticed those omissions you've pointed out.

In this case though I believe that they have improved on the scene in terms of visual continuety so whether it was by choice or omission/forgetfulness/incompetence isn't important to me, though I choose to give Lucasfilm the benefit of the doubt here and assume it was on purpose because there are many other changes that they clearly did on purpose that I consider definate improvements.

I am of the belief that the redone versions of numerous scenes in the OT not only do justice to the original work but also clearly surpass it, like when they enter mos eisley on the speeder in the SE (with the droid and jawa antics edited out of course like I have done with this Star Wars semi-specialised release) and of course the battle of yavin at the end of Star Wars. Both look much much better in the SE than their original theatrical counterparts IMHO. Both scenes no longer look dated and fit in better with the effects work of ESB and ROTJ, which is the most important thing to me, maintaining that visual continuety across the trilogy.

Then there are of course the additions that I feel improve the film like the scene with Biggs before the final battle, which adds a lot more pathos to when he dies during the trench run, making for a much more powerful finale IMHO.

I never watched Star Wars in the cinema when it first came out so I don't have that nostalgia towards the original version that many of you do. Of course I believe that as a fundamental turning point in cinema history the original theatrical versions of the OT should be preserved in as high a quality as possible and made available to everyone on blu-ray, much like Ridley Scott did with Blade Runner and all the different cuts available on the 5 disc blu-ray set.

Many of the original shots of the x-wings moving around during the battle of yavin, which of course were revolutionary in 1977, really do look poor to me now, so much so that I would personally never choose to watch a totally despecialised Star Wars unless there was no other versions with updated special effects available.

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Here are two clips from Empire Strikes Back using the classic settings, please check them out and let me know which one you prefer in terms of overall brightness (they are both much smaller that my previous Star Wars clip, at 300mb each):

ESB Test 1:

https://mega.co.nz/#!Ls5jXBjB!XIAx0uaMTwo46YH51qsEbpHOb0PtcM7tRe-jTtMr6ls

ESB Test 2:

https://mega.co.nz/#!q0YBlYrT!bAplulBCjT_cNPxY1ZLk__DgqR_vZUoNR_pOKdqY_YM

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Based on the lack of feedback it seems i'm not the only one unable to decide between those two clips in terms of brightness.

It's not important now though because I'm scrapping the colour settings for those two anyway, luke's fleshtones are still too red in the hut IMHO, I only noticed it by watching these clips numerous times. The Empire Strikes Back blu-ray transfer has so much red in the fleshtones that they are really difficult to get right across the whole film, I get them right in one scene, only for the overly reddish fleshtones to appear again in a later scene. I think i've got a hold of the red fleshtones problem now though.

I'll put a clip up from the battle of hoth using my latest settings soon so you guys can let me know what you think of the colours.

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Waiting for the latest test clips, though!

Sadly my projects are lost due to an HDD crash… 😦 | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com |

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Okay, here's a clip using the latest settings, taken from the battle of hoth:

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https://mega.co.nz/#!rxIUHI6T!5Lac91x19KJLQIYDWb9H7M59YO5het9YO0T6Wa6GVSY

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Guys, please check it out and let me know what you think of the colours.

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I'm not really familiar with ESB, but these balances look pretty good to my eyes.

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Cool, thanks for the feedback.

The balance looks good to me as well across the whole film. Those settings are meant to be for the classic version though, I've got a nice 'matte' feeling going with the SW and ROTJ classic settings, do you feel that it looks a little too saturated?

This clip below uses the same settings as the previous clip but with reduced saturation. Do you prefer how this clip looks to the previous clip for the classic setting?

https://mega.co.nz/#!X8ZTWLzL!wDIQLrUTy045tR_qxhWPNEg9DwBj1b9ZTIxXveKjld8

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kk650 said:

Cool, thanks for the feedback.

The balance looks good to me as well across the whole film. Those settings are meant to be for the classic version though, I've got a nice 'matte' feeling going with the SW and ROTJ classic settings, do you feel that it looks a little too saturated?

This clip below uses the same settings as the previous clip but with reduced saturation. Do you prefer how this clip looks to the previous clip for the classic setting?

https://mega.co.nz/#!X8ZTWLzL!wDIQLrUTy045tR_qxhWPNEg9DwBj1b9ZTIxXveKjld8

 Took a look at both, and I think you know what I like by now. I prefer the previous look, not this one with its reduced saturation settings.

I love everybody. Lets all smoke some reefer and chill. Hug and kisses for everybody.

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Question about TPM...in the OP you say you added grain and it brought out a bunch of detail.  How did you do this exactly?

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vbangle said:

kk650 said:

Cool, thanks for the feedback.

The balance looks good to me as well across the whole film. Those settings are meant to be for the classic version though, I've got a nice 'matte' feeling going with the SW and ROTJ classic settings, do you feel that it looks a little too saturated?

This clip below uses the same settings as the previous clip but with reduced saturation. Do you prefer how this clip looks to the previous clip for the classic setting?

https://mega.co.nz/#!X8ZTWLzL!wDIQLrUTy045tR_qxhWPNEg9DwBj1b9ZTIxXveKjld8

 Took a look at both, and I think you know what I like by now. I prefer the previous look, not this one with its reduced saturation settings.

 

I agree with vbangle I prefer the first clip. As far as I know ESB and ROTJ were not deliberately designed to look slightly muted, as Star Wars was.

Slightly off topic - have you checked out the Australian TV broadcast of ROTJ that recently appeared - it seems to have some really punchy colours in it, might be worth cross referencing if you are still trying out different palettes.

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vbangle said:

kk650 said:

Cool, thanks for the feedback.

The balance looks good to me as well across the whole film. Those settings are meant to be for the classic version though, I've got a nice 'matte' feeling going with the SW and ROTJ classic settings, do you feel that it looks a little too saturated?

This clip below uses the same settings as the previous clip but with reduced saturation. Do you prefer how this clip looks to the previous clip for the classic setting?

https://mega.co.nz/#!X8ZTWLzL!wDIQLrUTy045tR_qxhWPNEg9DwBj1b9ZTIxXveKjld8

 Took a look at both, and I think you know what I like by now. I prefer the previous look, not this one with its reduced saturation settings.

haha yes indeed. I'm guessing that you'll prefer the technicolor settings even more, like you did with Star Wars.

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TV's Frink said:

Question about TPM...in the OP you say you added grain and it brought out a bunch of detail.  How did you do this exactly?

Well, the detail was already there, only it was hidden by the layer of DNR. I found to my surprise that when I added the grain it brought a lot of that hidden detail to the surface.

Of course its impossible to bring back all the detail that was lost, i'd love to have access to the master before the DNR was applied but certainly when the grain is added, the transfer appears more detailed than the blu-ray, at least to my eyes. It of course also looks a lot more filmic, which makes it far more enjoyable to watch, at least for me.

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frank678 said:

vbangle said:

kk650 said:

Cool, thanks for the feedback.

The balance looks good to me as well across the whole film. Those settings are meant to be for the classic version though, I've got a nice 'matte' feeling going with the SW and ROTJ classic settings, do you feel that it looks a little too saturated?

This clip below uses the same settings as the previous clip but with reduced saturation. Do you prefer how this clip looks to the previous clip for the classic setting?

https://mega.co.nz/#!X8ZTWLzL!wDIQLrUTy045tR_qxhWPNEg9DwBj1b9ZTIxXveKjld8

 Took a look at both, and I think you know what I like by now. I prefer the previous look, not this one with its reduced saturation settings.

 

I agree with vbangle I prefer the first clip. As far as I know ESB and ROTJ were not deliberately designed to look slightly muted, as Star Wars was.

Slightly off topic - have you checked out the Australian TV broadcast of ROTJ that recently appeared - it seems to have some really punchy colours in it, might be worth cross referencing if you are still trying out different palettes.

Hmm, its interesting that you like the first clip more, I was pretty sure that most people would prefer the second. Andrea, where are you when I need you haha

I'd love to check that out. How can a get a hold of the Australian TV broadcast of ROTJ? Doesn't it have the same colour palette as the german hdtv stream, i.e. the overall blue tint that the blu-ray also has?

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It's close to GOUT most of the time I think but blue-tinted, but just a bit more vivid or punchy in ways (by being compressed?), I havn't watched the whole thing but I noticed some different effects in places, skipping thru it, like how yoda looks here:

http://i.imgur.com/pVHvBky.png

(props to althor1138!)


http://i.imgur.com/BGBfieI.png

Return of the Jedi [ATV-10, 15-2-87]

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Sorry, sorry, here I am!

I'm sure you already know my answer... but I will write it anyway: I prefer the less saturated one, even if the first one is still good!

@TV's Frink: I guess kk650 used a grain plate as method to add grain, right?

Sadly my projects are lost due to an HDD crash… 😦 | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com |

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Well if DNR removes detail, how would adding grain bring it back?

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It's just our brain that perceive more details even if in reality isn't there... of course, the DNR should be not overly aggressive...

I tested it with The Arrival, and worked well; plus, I used it in AVP:R shots upscaled from DVD to match the BD grain - and again, it worked well too!

But, for example, with Predator UHE it didn't work so well as in the previous cases... because it's quite hard to squeeze out some details from a wax mask! (^^,)

Sadly my projects are lost due to an HDD crash… 😦 | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com |

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TV's Frink said:

I was trying to ask how you added the grain.

It was a year ago so I don't remember the exact details but I believe I used avisynth with the AddGrain plugin to add the grain to the phantom menace blu-ray transfer. I do remember that it took around a week to encode the whole film though!

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kk650 said:

 I do remember that it took around a week to encode though!

 and I thought that three days encoding was a long time... (-^,)

Sadly my projects are lost due to an HDD crash… 😦 | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com |

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Well it sure sounds to me like your OP is misleading.  I'm not even close to a expert in these matters (which is why I asked the question first) but it sounds like you just made the film look more film-ish.  Recovering detail is something else entirely.