kk650's Star Wars Saga: Regraded and Semi-Specialized (Released) — Page 16

Okay, here are the screencaps of the Classic and Retro Star Wars Semi-Specialised Editions V2.1 .

Damn imageshack has compressed them to high heaven when I uploaded them so they don't reflect the grain structure or image quality of these releases but they are accurate in terms of colour. You can see the images in full size by right clicking on them and then clicking view image.

Those interested in these Star Wars Original Trilogy Semi-Specialised Editions, please have a look at the colours of these screencaps and let me know which you would like me to release first, the Retro release or the Classic release.

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Star Wars Retro Semi-Specialised Edition V2.1:

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Star Wars Classic Semi-Specialised Edition V2.1:

I'd say your pics need SLIGHTLY more red

I'm digging the Retro. 

Yep, still voting for classic first.

Thanks kane1138 and towne32!

That currently makes 1 vote for classic and 1 vote for retro.

@pittrek: Hmm, I've been experimenting and I think you're probably right, the screencaps could use slightly more warmth. Boosting the reds even slightly makes them start to undermine the blues in the film though, so its a bit more complicated than simply boosting the reds slightly, other settings need to be changed very slightly to compensate and keep the reds in check and stop them overwhelming the blues.

After a bit of fiddling around, I've managed to get something that I think does the trick. I'll post some screencaps up soon so you can let me know what you think.

Here are some screencap comparisons between the previous retro settings and the latest slightly warmer settings:

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http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/88810

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/88811

EDIT: HERE ARE SOME MORE RETRO COMPARISONS

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/88818

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/88820

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/88821

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/88823

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/88825

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/88826

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/88827

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/88828

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/88829

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Here are some screencap comparisons between the previous classic settings and the latest slightly warmer settings:

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http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/88812

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/88814

EDIT: HERE ARE SOME MORE CLASSIC COMPARISONS

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/88831

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/88832

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/88834

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/88833

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/88835

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/88836

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/88837

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/88838

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/88840

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So pittrek, what do you think? Do you prefer the screencaps using the slightly warmer settings to the ones using the previous settings?

Anybody else want to voice a preference for either the classic or the retro settings? Its currently 1 vote for classic and 1 vote for retro.

Regarding the screenshot comparisons, I've looked on two different monitors now, and I'm not 100% sure I can see the difference. But if I can, I don't have a preference either way. :)

I can't see ANY differences. I guess it's time to calibrate my monitor :-)

@towne32: Yeah, the difference is certainly very very subtle, I have difficulty seeing the difference myself on my big monitor unless I know what to focus on when I switch between the two. I've checked clips using the two settings on my TV and I definately believe the latest settings is an improvement, it seems to breath more life into the film.

@pittrek: You did say SLIGHTLY more red in capitals haha I do believe you were spot on though, I find the difference fairly noticable in these two screencap comparisons below if you look carefully at the wall behind the guy and Vader when switching between the two, how there's more red amongst the green there in the new settings (its easier to see the difference with the classic settings of course due to the higher saturation):

Retro:

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/88811

Classic

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/88814

The extra red is also most noticable in the increased warmth of the light hitting things and lightsources, for example the sunlight reflecting off R2D2 and C3PO in the first desert shot looks warmer and more natural now when before it has more of a slightly faded photograph feel to it. The sky behind them and the clouds are also noticably more red in the new settings, as least on my monitor:

Retro:

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/88818

Classic:

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/88831

I can't seem to get away with adding any more red though because it starts adversely affecting the other colours, especially the blues. Its particularly noticable with the technicolor settings. I want to keep the balance of colours intact as much as possible.

Thank you for the feedback Andrea, as always, greatly appreciated.

I have considered doing a BD25 certainly but I am still waiting on the cinema DTS audio for all three films so those will have to wait.

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

My memory lacks (as usual) but aren't they ready available? At least for the '97SE, that could be easily adapted for your version... am I wrong?

TeamBlu's '97SE version of Star Wars is the only release that i'm aware of that uses the cinema DTS audio. Are there others? I've been provided the Star Wars cinema DTS, its the ESB and ROTJ cinema DTS tracks that i'm currently missing.

As for adding chapters/menus, I plan on adding chapters to the AVCHD releases but i'm not currently planning to do menus or anything like that, though if anybody has any good menu authoring programs they could recommend, i'll definately look into the possibility of including one.

Okay, the count is currently 2 votes for retro and 1 for classic.

Anybody else have a preference for either setting based on those screencaps above? Once I go ahead with one of these settings, i'll be releasing the whole trilogy with that setting before releasing any of the films again with a different setting, so if anybody else prefers the classic setting, now's the time to say.

Danfun128 said:

Wait a minute. Aside from changes like new new emperor and boba fett in ESB and the naboo scene in ROTJ, weren't the sound mixes for those films almost identical to their 97se counterparts? I know that ANH had a very different (and inferior) sound mix in the 2004 dvd, but do the ESB and ROTJ sound mixes have the same issues?

If not, can't you take the good parts of the 2011 mixes and the 97 dts mixes and...mix them together (pun unavoidable but unintentional)

Honestly i'm not familiar with all the differences in audio between the different releases and whether the cinema DTS audio of ESB and ROTJ is similar to the blu-ray DTS-HD 6.1 audio of ESB and ROTJ. hairy_hen would be the one to ask about that.

What i've found in the past though is that different mixes with different amounts of channels can be pretty difficult to mix seamlessly, especially modern DTS-HD 6.1 audio tracks that have had their special effects audio boosted to the detriment of the music like these blu-ray Star Wars OT tracks have from what i've heard.

For the sake of continuety if I use the cinema DTS for Star Wars, I really want to use the cinema DTS for ESB and ROTJ. If i'm not able to get all three of these, I'll most likely have to look into using the blu-ray DTS-HD 6.1 audio for the three films. Certainly thats exactly what a lot of people on tehparadox have been asking me to do, to get that extra punch on their surround sound systems.

The DVD and Bluray versions of ESB and RotJ are essentially the same as the 1997 mixes much of the time.  They just have additional edits and changes piled on top of them whenever they felt like adding something to the later versions of the movies.  There are some additional surround effects in some places that the 1997 versions didn't have, as well as being in a 6.1 format (or 5.1 EX) instead of the standard 5.1 from '97.  But in all unedited sections, they seem to be virtually identical.

There isn't a lossless source for the straight-up '97 versions, but the Cinema DTS does sound rather good.  It would be easiest to just use them as the primary source, with perhaps a splice from elsewhere to remove Luke's scream as he falls, since it is rather ghastly and nobody I know of would be in favor of keeping it.

Keep in mind, of course, that the Cinema DTS audio is at 44.1 khz at 24 frames per second, while video formats must be 48 khz and 23.976 frames per second.  So this conversion must be made prior to any editing work.  To avoid degrading the sound quality further, it should be performed at 24-bit resolution or higher, and dither should be used if it is to be cut back down to 16-bit again.

Count one vote for the Classic "slightly warmer" version... They both look fantastic, however.  :-D

nafroe said:

Count one vote for the Classic "slightly warmer" version... They both look fantastic, however.  :-D

Thank you for the kind words nafroe, really appreciated! :D

A lot of work has gone into reaching this point with the colour grading for V2.1, constantly tweaking the settings slightly here and there over quite a few months and i'm personally very happy with how this looks now, I'm just glad that i'm not the only one haha

With these current settings I think I have done the very best I can do with SW, TESB and ROTJ in terms of colour grading, I personally can't see myself being able to make these films look any more appealing for me personally using the current blu-rays as the main source.

hairy_hen said:

The DVD and Bluray versions of ESB and RotJ are essentially the same as the 1997 mixes much of the time.  They just have additional edits and changes piled on top of them whenever they felt like adding something to the later versions of the movies.  There are some additional surround effects in some places that the 1997 versions didn't have, as well as being in a 6.1 format (or 5.1 EX) instead of the standard 5.1 from '97.  But in all unedited sections, they seem to be virtually identical.

There isn't a lossless source for the straight-up '97 versions, but the Cinema DTS does sound rather good.  It would be easiest to just use them as the primary source, with perhaps a splice from elsewhere to remove Luke's scream as he falls, since it is rather ghastly and nobody I know of would be in favor of keeping it.

Keep in mind, of course, that the Cinema DTS audio is at 44.1 khz at 24 frames per second, while video formats must be 48 khz and 23.976 frames per second.  So this conversion must be made prior to any editing work.  To avoid degrading the sound quality further, it should be performed at 24-bit resolution or higher, and dither should be used if it is to be cut back down to 16-bit again.

Thanks for all that info, I'll keep it in mind.

A question though. If I want to get rid of Luke's scream from the Empire Strikes Back cinema DTS audio, which audio track would fit in more seamlessly do you think, Belbucus's '93 PCM audio, the dolby digital 5.1 DVD audio track or the DTS-HD blu-ray audio track?

I've been on myspleen and I can only see the Star Wars 97'SE theatrical track, which i've already very kindly been provided with by CapableMetal. Still waiting on the other two though. :(

Guys, I really need your thoughts on the quandary which i've found myself in with regards to regrading and releasing Star Wars this week.

As far as I can remember nobody in this thread has mentioned anything relating to the brightness of my current settings for Star Wars. The thing is, the more I watch certain scenes with my current settings, like the Battle of Yavin, the more I am convinced that I have really underestimated how bright this film is meant to be. Certain shots during that battle just don't look right to me, they look too dark and underexposed.

Looking back at the frames I have been provided with, it makes me even more convinced that the brightness of my current settings is too low, the frames are much brighter, especially leia in the prison cell when luke comes to free her. When I correct the brightness of those shots during the Battle of Yavin to make the exposure look more 'correct', my concern is that the blacks in the film are becoming too bright. I can't increase the contrast to bring the blacks back down because the film starts to look digital again like the blu-ray rather than filmic like I want it to look.

What I am wondering is whether with Star Wars the black were always meant to be brighter than what one would normally expect in a modern film. I started reading up about the brightness of Star Wars and was very interested to discover on the Save Star Wars website that there has always been debate about how bright the binary sunset scene is meant to be, with the majority believing that the scene was much brighter theatrically than it was in the DVDs and Blu-rays. This also seems to support the idea that i've underestimated how bright this film is meant to be. Also the photos from the senator screening seem to be very bright as well but of course they are not all that reliable because the camera settings could be messing with the brightness and not capturing it accurately.

Below are three clips using the retro settings, one from when luke finds leia in the cell, one from when luke is having dinner with his aunt and uncle and the binary sunset scene and the final clip from the first couple of minutes of the Battle of Yavin. Each clip has two versions with different image dynamics/brightness but same colours, the brighter version and the normal version that matches the brightness of the screencaps above.

Please check these three clips below and let me know which brightness setting you prefer between brighter and normal, which seems more 'correct' to you:

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Luke rescues Leia from prison cell clip - brighter setting:

https://mega.co.nz/#!GgZhXSbK!TYatK-xKrVNkV9Y-Yzzy7RU26-cpsI-ymN5kDjJJrHc

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Luke rescues Leia from prison cell clip - normal setting:

https://mega.co.nz/#!ykxTHabY!FFvbXibe5pITjM9dHgrQwGVIe9R_yJhBjkd6NEUptNU

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Dinner with Aunt and Uncle and binary sunset clip - brighter setting:

https://mega.co.nz/#!bs4VBaAQ!pPMncHvHD_nLFH6ZrBGAKuG7afJ80VBof7zqOhj_YWg

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Dinner with Aunt and Uncle and binary sunset clip - normal setting:

https://mega.co.nz/#!fppj2QKT!x4Yb9aLwQl2iRG7KbrC4lLD0sPN4M-MedITjRqfBVnM

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Battle of Yavin pt1 - brighter settings:

https://mega.co.nz/#!a1gCFSyI!Hs35Xh40WbH11QQbTBFw5tSow6vntiZ-nKezUocoi3s

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Battle of Yavin pt 1 - normal settings:

https://mega.co.nz/#!a5JHHCoY!Omj5l24poWlOfKdcMcFKGtfrjhAw4zWM1LnjM_Q7d2A