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kk650's Regraded Raiders of the Lost Ark (blanket yellow tint removed from blu-ray)

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I’ve just uploaded a new regrade of Raiders of the Lost Ark to Myspleen. The release is 23.2 GB and includes the DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 track from the blu-ray as well as the 2 channel PCM audio track from the Laserdisc. Here are some screencap comparisons for those interested:

Blu-ray 1:

Regraded 1:

Blu-ray 2:

Regraded 2:

Blu-ray 3:

Regraded 3:

Blu-ray 4:

Regraded 4:

Blu-ray 5:

Regraded 5:

Blu-ray 6:

Regraded 6:

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Looks good! Excited to watch it in full.

“You don’t really mean you’ll kill me, do you?” - Juror 8
“Silence, Earthling! My name is Darth Vader. I am an extra-terrestrial from the planet Vulcan!” - Calvin “Marty” Klein

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While I really like most of your work, particulary your last Star Wars iterations, I think this regrade has some serious issues. To illustrate the point I’ve done a quick balancing of the Raiders bluray myself.

Bluray:

kk650:

DrDre:

Comparing these three I think it’s pretty obvious, there is a pretty strong magenta cast in your regrade. Most problematic IMO are the first and third shot.

Here’s the LUT for my quick correction:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8_LYKyZDiajOFpnem4zOUdJc28/view?usp=sharing

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I agree with DrDre. Looks like you took out too much.

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I appreciate the feedback guys but I much prefer the colour and image dynamic of my own release compared to DrDre’s regraded screencaps here, the difference is night and day to me.

The biggest issue I have is that the fleshtone colours look very unnatural to me in all of DrDre’s screenshots, especially the screenshots where Indiana’s about to grab the idol and when he shoots the guy with the sword. Fleshtones are the most important thing in a regrade IMHO, those have to look right or you´ll end up taking people out of the film, because viewers spend most of the time watching the faces of the characters. Image dynamics are also an issue, they feel underexposed and there is still a blanket yellow tint that hasn’t been removed, making the sky look greenish blue. My release removes all the blanket yellow tint, bringing all the blues back into the colour palette of the film.

My previous releases were more conservative and I didn’t commit fully to removing the blanket yellow tint in its entirety, leaving some of the yellow blanket tint like DrDre did in his screencaps, but now I am able to be a lot more precise when it comes to removing all the blanket tint.

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I think DrDre has been consistently on the warm side of color grading where kk650 has mostly graded on the cool side. Not a big deal really, some people prefer the warm while others like the cool. Personally the warm colors on DrDre’s examples look more natural to me. kk650 you talk about your skins tones. To you does Marcus’s skin tone look correct? To me he looks so blue, sickly even.

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kk650 said:

I appreciate the feedback guys but I much prefer the colour and image dynamic of my own release compared to DrDre’s regraded screencaps here, the difference is night and day to me.

The biggest issue I have is that the fleshtone colours look very unnatural to me in all of DrDre’s screenshots, especially the screenshots where Indiana’s about to grab the idol and when he shoots the guy with the sword. Fleshtones are the most important thing in a regrade IMHO, those have to look right or you´ll end up taking people out of the film, because viewers spend most of the time watching the faces of the characters. Image dynamics are also an issue, they feel underexposed and there is still a blanket yellow tint that hasn’t been removed, making the sky look greenish blue. My release removes all the blanket yellow tint, bringing all the blues back into the colour palette of the film.

My previous releases were more conservative and I didn’t commit fully to removing the blanket yellow tint in its entirety, leaving some of the yellow blanket tint like DrDre did in his screencaps, but now I am able to be a lot more precise when it comes to removing all the blanket tint.

The problem is that you remove one blanket tint, only to introduce another. In this image I darkened all the areas in your regrade with blue or magenta in it:

I can understand that you have certain preferences for the skin tones (although in the Marcos Brody shot they do appear very bluish in your regrade), however I wouldn’t think at the expense of everything else getting unnatural color tones. Cooler tones are obviously fine, but is Indy’s bag of sand supposed to be magenta? Are Indy’s and Marcus’ shirts supposed to be magenta? Do the people of Cairo prefer their walls to be magenta? Do Arabic people wear magenta colored scarfs? I would expect both the walls in Cairo and the scarfs to be an (off-)white.

Perhaps my regrade is too warm for some of you, not dynamic enough, or you want to adjust the skin tones (the skin tones in the idol shot are not supposed to be natural by the way, as Indy’s face has been lit with a colored light). No problem, because it can be made cooler to bring out the blues, and the skin tones can be adjusted independently:

Marcus Brody’s jacket now has a nice deep blue color, the sky is a natural blue, the clouds are white, the colors are more dynamic, the walls and scarfs are an off-white, and there are no blanket-tints, yellow, magenta, or otherwise.

A direct comparison clearly shows how skewed the colors in your regrade are towards blue/magenta.

bluray vs DrDre v2:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/115578

kk650 vs DrDre v2:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/115579

DrDre v1 vs DrDre v2:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/115582

LUT for DrDre v2:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8_LYKyZDiajVnc0Sk53RzZmNDQ/view?usp=sharing

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confusedgambler said:

I think DrDre has been consistently on the warm side of color grading where kk650 has mostly graded on the cool side. Not a big deal really, some people prefer the warm while others like the cool. Personally the warm colors on DrDre’s examples look more natural to me. kk650 you talk about your skins tones. To you does Marcus’s skin tone look correct? To me he looks so blue, sickly even.

Within the context of the rest of the colours and the lightsources in the scenes yes I think all the fleshtones of my release look correct. The ones in DrDre’s screencaps do not, they just look wrong to my eyes.

If I want to watch a warmer looking Raiders of the Lost Ark, I can just watch the official blu-ray, at least the fleshtones look correct there in the context of the rest of the colours.

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I removed all the blanket yellow tint and was left with the colours that you see in my regrade. I appreciate that you think I have removed too much yellow but I can very clearly see that that is not the case, I can see that with pretty much 100% certainty. This feels to me like a case of you shooting the messenger, blaming me for how the blu-ray transfer looks under the blanket yellow tint, which is completely out of my control. The Titanic looks much more conventional colourwise under the blanket yellow tint but I did exactly the same as I did here, just remove all of the blanket yellow tint.

I don’t think there’s much point going round in circles here DrDre. You were working on your own version of Raiders of the Lost Ark right? That’ll be your opportunity to regrade the film to your preferences with a more yellow colour scheme and then everybody will be able to choose between both our releases. I’ve moved onto other projects now.

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kk650 said:

I removed all the blanket yellow tint and was left with the colours that you see in my regrade. I appreciate that you think I have removed too much yellow but I can very clearly see that that is not the case, I can see that with pretty much 100% certainty.

Well, in that case you shouldn’t trust your eyes, but the numbers. As the RGB values don’t lie. There’s an overabundance of magenta all over the frames you posted in places where it definitely shouldn’t be (as the above complation makes clear visually). This is a mathematical certainty.

This feels to me like a case of you shooting the messenger, blaming me for how the blu-ray transfer looks under the blanket yellow tint, which is completely out of my control. The Titanic looks much more conventional colourwise under the blanket yellow tint but I did exactly the same as I did here, just remove all of the blanket yellow tint.

And your Titanic looks great, no doubts there. However, if you simply look at the compilation I posted above, there’s no doubt your Raiders regrade is magenta shifted in the brighter areas. This has nothing to do with the bluray colors.

I don’t think there’s much point going round in circles here DrDre. You were working on your own version of Raiders of the Lost Ark right? That’ll be your opportunity to regrade the film to your preferences with a more yellow colour scheme and then everybody will be able to choose between both our releases. I’ve moved onto other projects now.

There’s no circles, it’s magenta. If that’s your purpose, more power to you. While I too have a tendency to respond with irritation in the face of criticism (initially, these things tend to bug me, such that I usually fix the problem eventually), I’ve also found these discussions generally lead to a better result, as sometimes others notice things, you may have missed. You’re free to ignore me of course. That’s fine by me, but left as is, this regrade is not up to your usual standards (IMO of course).

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DrDre said:

kk650 said:

I removed all the blanket yellow tint and was left with the colours that you see in my regrade. I appreciate that you think I have removed too much yellow but I can very clearly see that that is not the case, I can see that with pretty much 100% certainty.

Well, in that case you shouldn’t trust your eyes, but the numbers. As the RGB values don’t lie. There’s an overabundance of magenta all over the frames you posted in places where it definitely shouldn’t be (as the above complation makes clear visually). This is a mathematical certainty.

This feels to me like a case of you shooting the messenger, blaming me for how the blu-ray transfer looks under the blanket yellow tint, which is completely out of my control. The Titanic looks much more conventional colourwise under the blanket yellow tint but I did exactly the same as I did here, just remove all of the blanket yellow tint.

And your Titanic looks great, no doubts there. However, if you simply look at the compilation I posted above, there’s no doubt your Raiders regrade is magenta shifted in the brighter areas. This has nothing to do with the bluray colors.

I don’t think there’s much point going round in circles here DrDre. You were working on your own version of Raiders of the Lost Ark right? That’ll be your opportunity to regrade the film to your preferences with a more yellow colour scheme and then everybody will be able to choose between both our releases. I’ve moved onto other projects now.

There’s no circles, it’s magenta. If that’s your purpose, more power to you. While I too have a tendency to respond with irritation in the face of criticism (initially, these things tend to bug me, such that I usually fix the problem eventually), I’ve also found these discussions generally lead to a better result, as sometimes others notice things, you may have missed. You’re free to ignore me of course. That’s fine by me, but left as is, this regrade is not up to your usual standards (IMO of course).

I am glad that you like the Titanic release but the fact that you like the look of that release and not this one is completely making my point about shooting the messenger.

You think there is too much blue and red after removing all the blanket yellow tint, fair enough. That does not change the fact that it is there after removing all the blanket yellow tint.

Maybe the print or digital negative they used to colour correct the blu-ray shot by shot had a little bit of red-fade (like all the 35mm print frames of Raiders of the Lost Ark i’ve seen out there) and that made them feel the need to add all the yellow to try to counterbalance that and give the film a more conventional orangey look? I don’t know but the purpose of this release in particular was to remove all the blanket yellow tint, not compromise like I have in previous releases and only remove it in part.

I welcome your feedback and that of everybody else but I never expect my releases to be liked by everyone, colour preference is completely subjective so that would be impossible and a fool’s errand. As releasers we have no choice but to go ahead accepting that fact. I think Kino in particular is becoming very familiar with this due to all the controversy surrounding their The Good, the Bad and the Ugly release, they tried to make a section of fans happy by removing some of the blanket yellow tint and ended up pissing off another section of fans.

The moral of the Kino story is that its impossible to make everybody happy, so the most important thing is to make sure you as the releaser are happy. That said, its important to always listen to feedback, just as it is important to understand that its not always necessary or even advisable to act on said feedback. In the case of this Raiders of the Lost Ark release, I am very happy with how it turned out, but i’d be lying if I said I didn’t expect resistance after seeing what the film looked like with all the blanket yellow tint removed.

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I see these releases more as an “alternative” colour grading rather than a “corrected” one. I’m a fan of KK650’s FOTR, for example, and it’s preferable to the BD, but like this release, more or less replaces one tint with another. In the case of FOTR, I prefer KK650’s to the official BD (though it still has issues), but I think I prefer the colouring on the Raiders BD to this one. Though obviously neither is completely accurate to how the film should look.

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Nick66 said:

I see these releases more as an “alternative” colour grading rather than a “corrected” one. I’m a fan of KK650’s FOTR, for example, and it’s preferable to the BD, but like this release, more or less replaces one tint with another. In the case of FOTR, I prefer KK650’s to the official BD (though it still has issues), but I think I prefer the colouring on the Raiders BD to this one. Though obviously neither is completely accurate to how the film should look.

I think that’s the best way to look at any regraded release. The only ‘correct’ releases are the official blu-rays, all regrades based off those blu-rays are ‘alternative’ colour grading by definition in my book.

Many may prefer these ‘alternative’ colour graded releases, but the fact remains that none of them have been supervised by the filmmakers, while the official releases have been, so the official releases are the most ‘correct’ releases we’ll ever get, if we all agree that the artist should have the final say on how their piece of art should look and what is ‘correct’.

As for Fellowship of the Ring, i’ll be releasing a nice new updated version of that release very soon 😃

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kk650 said:

DrDre said:

kk650 said:

I removed all the blanket yellow tint and was left with the colours that you see in my regrade. I appreciate that you think I have removed too much yellow but I can very clearly see that that is not the case, I can see that with pretty much 100% certainty.

Well, in that case you shouldn’t trust your eyes, but the numbers. As the RGB values don’t lie. There’s an overabundance of magenta all over the frames you posted in places where it definitely shouldn’t be (as the above complation makes clear visually). This is a mathematical certainty.

This feels to me like a case of you shooting the messenger, blaming me for how the blu-ray transfer looks under the blanket yellow tint, which is completely out of my control. The Titanic looks much more conventional colourwise under the blanket yellow tint but I did exactly the same as I did here, just remove all of the blanket yellow tint.

And your Titanic looks great, no doubts there. However, if you simply look at the compilation I posted above, there’s no doubt your Raiders regrade is magenta shifted in the brighter areas. This has nothing to do with the bluray colors.

I don’t think there’s much point going round in circles here DrDre. You were working on your own version of Raiders of the Lost Ark right? That’ll be your opportunity to regrade the film to your preferences with a more yellow colour scheme and then everybody will be able to choose between both our releases. I’ve moved onto other projects now.

There’s no circles, it’s magenta. If that’s your purpose, more power to you. While I too have a tendency to respond with irritation in the face of criticism (initially, these things tend to bug me, such that I usually fix the problem eventually), I’ve also found these discussions generally lead to a better result, as sometimes others notice things, you may have missed. You’re free to ignore me of course. That’s fine by me, but left as is, this regrade is not up to your usual standards (IMO of course).

I am glad that you like the Titanic release but the fact that you like the look of that release and not this one is completely making my point about shooting the messenger.

You think there is too much blue and magenta after removing all the blanket yellow tint, fair enough. That does not change the fact that it is there after removing all the blanket yellow tint.

I disagree. You are taking yourself and the methods used out of the equation. For sure, a method, in this case curves adjustment, which produces good results on one source, does not have to work work equally well on another. However, there are other methods that can be used. Curves adjustment can only get you so far (simple example: you cannot independently adjust hue and saturation with curves adjustment). In this case you wanted certain skin tones, but in order to achieve this, you had to compromise (too much I think) in other areas. What I’m saying is, that you can get the skin tones you are after, while avoiding color casts in other parts of the frame. This is what I’ve done with my regrades, even though you might prefer a different color palette. In my case I often first match the bluray to a reference source I like, and start manually adjusting the colors from there (For example in this case I first matched the bluray to a specific shot of the WOWOW broadcast, and then optimized the color balance for all the other shots). This way you can obtain colors that are impossible to obtain with curves adjustment.

Maybe the print or digital negative they used to colour correct the blu-ray shot by shot had a little bit of red-fade (like all the 35mm print frames of Raiders of the Lost Ark i’ve seen out there) and that made them feel the need to add all the yellow to try to counterbalance that and give the film a more conventional orangey look? I don’t know but the purpose of this release in particular was to remove all the blanket yellow tint, not compromise like I have in previous releases and only remove it in part.

Like I stated earlier, you don’t need to compromise if you change your methods (when necessary).

The moral of the Kino story is that its impossible to make everybody happy, so the most important thing is to make sure you as the releaser are happy. That said, its important to always listen to feedback, just as it is important to understand that its not always necessary or even advisable to act on said feedback. In the case of this Raiders of the Lost Ark release, I am very happy with how it turned out, but i’d be lying if I said I didn’t expect resistance after seeing what the film looked like with all the blanket tint removed.

Yes, but this almost certainly isn’t what the negative looked like, and it is thus not THE look of the film without the blanket tint, it is a version. It is a consequence of applying a single curves adjustment to an entire film that was color graded on a shot by shot basis. Both the bluray and the WOWOW broadcast are based on the same scan of the negative, but they both have a completely different color palette, which are different from the 1981 theatrical prints:

Bluray:

WOWOW:

35mm LPP:

The colors of these releases cannot simply be transfered to the other with a single curves adjustent, or any other single color adjustment for that matter (although more advanced techniques will produce better results). Yet, the bluray can be almost perfectly color matched to the other two sources (not with curves adjustment mind you).

Bluray matched to WOWOW:

Bluray matched to 35mm LPP:

Either of these color matches could be the starting point of a regrade to remove the bluray’s blanket yellow tint, without having to do a shot by shot correction (since neither of the other releases has a blanket yellow tint, although this shot is probably not the best starting point), and the end result would be totally different from using the unadjusted bluray as your starting point. So, to me the argument in regards to your regrade, that this is what the bluray looks like without the blanket yellow tint is flawed, because it only represents one of many results produced with what is probably not the best methodology.

Either way, I’ve said my piece. It’s your work, so the most important thing is, that you’re happy with it. 😉

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I believe that the blu-ray was color graded on a shot by shot basis and then a blanket yellow tint was added on top over the whole film. I have just removed the blanket yellow tint and left the shot by shot colour grading underneath intact. You may think that methodology is flawed but to my eyes that is not the case and I see a lot of flaws in your own methodology which I’ve pointed out earlier, the unnatural looking fleshtones in particular which is a very big problem, the biggest a release can have as far as i’m concerned.

Colour matches would perhaps only be worthwhile in my opinion if you had a 35mm frame of every single shot in the film to match to, and even then, trying to force the colours of the blu-ray to match the very different colours of the 35mm LPP gives very questionable results to my eyes, for it to work the colours and image dynamics have to be 100% identical. This shot below for example of the Bluray matched to the 35mm LPP, the fleshtones just look wrong to me, they don’t look right relative to the lighting of the scene and the overall colours. The 35mm LPP frame looks fine, but the Bluray matched to 35mm LPP does not IHMO, like you’re trying to force two completely different colour schemes and image dynamics together and ended up with a bit of a mishmash where the colours don’t interact correctly:

We both have our own methodologies that we prefer and that’s fine. I see numerous problems with yours, you see numerous problems with mine. I don’t think we’re going to be able to convince each other of the merits or problems of our own methodologies, the only way to proceed would be to compare two releases of the same film created using the two different methodologies. I would personally find that fascinating.

The main difference between you and me of course is that I have actually commited and put out a release of Raiders of the Lost Ark. You put out your release of Raiders of the Lost Ark using your colour matching methodology, then I’ll watch the whole film in full, as its meant to be seen. The only way of truely accessing a regrade is watching it, not nitpicking single screencaps. Then I’ll be happy to discuss with you the merits and flaws of each release and the respective methodologies used to create them. Until then, I don’t see there being much point discussing this further.

You should check out my release in motion and see whether that changes your mind about the colours. One thing i’ve learned from creating regrades is that screencaps very often don’t tell the whole story, you have to watch the actual release in motion.

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kk650 said:

I believe that the blu-ray was color graded on a shot by shot basis and then a blanket yellow tint was added. I have just removed the blanket yellow tint and left the shot by shot colour grading underneath intact. You may think that methodology is flawed but to my eyes that is not the case and I see a lot of flaws in your own methodology which I’ve pointed out earlier, the unnatural looking fleshtones in particular which is a very big problem, the biggest a release can have as far as i’m concerned.

I very much doubt your first statement is true, because the magenta cast makes this highly unlikely. Finding the proper skin tones has proven to be highly subjective, in part because skin tones tend to vary substantially in reality from yellow to orange, to pink, to red even for caucasian skin types. Your preferences in terms of skin tones are well documented, and have been subject to many debates. A magenta cast is just what it is, and unlike skin tones it can be quantified. As such it’s presence should be classified as an artifact, unless it’s delibirate, in which case it’s an unusual choice.

Colour matches would perhaps only be worthwhile in my opinion if you had a 35mm frame of every single shot in the film to match to, and even then, trying to force the colours of the blu-ray to match the very different colours of the 35mm LPP gives very questionable results to my eyes, for it to work the colours and image dynamics have to be 100% identical. This shot below for example of the Bluray matched to the 35mm LPP, the fleshtones just look wrong to me, they don’t look right relative to the lighting of the scene and the overall colours. The 35mm LPP frame looks fine, but the Bluray matched to 35mm LPP does not IHMO, like you’re trying to force two completely different colour schemes and image dynamics together and ended up with a bit of a mishmash where the colours don’t interact correctly.

This seems rather odd to me, since the algorithm matches hue, contrast, and saturation. Differences can occur due to missing color gradients, making it such that one source is easier to match than another, but it’s certainly not related to the overall colour schemes and image dynamics. The color match was done very quickly, but done more accurrately (more color spaces, less smoothing), the colors become almost indistuinguishable, aside from the obvious heavily applied DNR to the bluray:

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That is definately better than the previous colour matching attempt but it is not indistuinguishable in terms of colour/image dynamics, the picture on the left looks fine but the picture on the right still looks unnatural in terms of fleshtones, Indiana’s eyes in particular look very bad on the right and not at all like the picture on the left. The only thing worse than getting the fleshtones looking unnatural is having the eyes looking unnatural.

I’ve always found what your colour matching tool can do very impressive but unless it can match the colours and image dynamics 100%, there is a margin of error of the algorithm making up colours/changing image dynamics that I personally would not be able to tolerate. If I were to create a release using that tool, I would never release it unless it was 100% accurate or the difference was so negligable that I could not tell the difference looking with my own eyes on my 30 inch monitor.

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kk650 said:

That is definately better than the previous colour matching attempt but it is not indistuinguishable in terms of colour/image dynamics, the picture on the left looks fine but the picture on the right looks unnatural in terms of fleshtones, Indiana’s eyes in particular look very bad on the right and not at all like the picture on the left. The only thing worse than getting the fleshtones looking unnatural is having the eyes looking unnatural.

This is just nonsense. The RGB values for the flesh tones are identical, as such the flesh tones are identical. It’s a mathematical certainty, and I mean this literally. The only difference between the two images is the DNR applied to the bluray, which obviously has some effect on some of the image dynamics. This information simply cannot be recovered by any methodology, least of all curves adjustment.

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DrDre said:

kk650 said:

That is definately better than the previous colour matching attempt but it is not indistuinguishable in terms of colour/image dynamics, the picture on the left looks fine but the picture on the right looks unnatural in terms of fleshtones, Indiana’s eyes in particular look very bad on the right and not at all like the picture on the left. The only thing worse than getting the fleshtones looking unnatural is having the eyes looking unnatural.

This is just nonsense. The RGB values for the flesh tones are identical, as such the flesh tones are identical. The only difference between the two images is the DNR applied to the bluray, which obviously has some effect on some of the image dynamics, which simply cannot be recovered by any methodology, least of all curves adjustment.

There’s no need to call my opinion nonsense DrDre. My eyes see what they see, regardless of whether you agree with them or not. I’ve been respectful to you and i’d appreciate the same courtesy.

We’re just going to have to agree to disagree. I’m not interested in discussing this with you any further until you create a release of Raiders of the Lost Ark using your own methodology. Then we can talk more, but not before.

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kk650 said:
I’ve always found what your colour matching tool can do vey impressive but unless it can match the colours and image dynamics 100%, there is a margin of error of the algorithm making up colours/changing image dynamics that I personally would not be able to tolerate. If I were to create a release using that tool, I would never release it unless it was 100% accurate or the difference was so negligable that I could not tell the difference looking with my own eyes on my 30 inch monitor.

This really makes no sense to me. The changes to the image dynamics by just applying a curves adjustment are orders of magnitude larger than the margin of error of an algorithm. The color grading of an official release is not done with curves adjustment, as such the underlying colors cannot be retrieved by curves adjustment. Applying simple curves adjustment will result in small margins of errors in some areas of the frame, but very large errors in other parts of the frame (like for example good looking skin tones with undesired color casts in the background). The entire basis for using an algorithm is to solve the limitations of curves adjustment, which is essentially curves adjustment in dozens to hundreds of color spaces.

To clarify, the simplest case of the algorithm in just one color space (the RGB color space) is just simple curves adjustment as you applied it to the bluray, and thus has the largest margin of error. The more color spaces you use, the smaller the margin of error.

A direct consequence is, that the algorithm can match your regrade with essentially zero margins of error.

kk650:

Bluray matched to kk650:

A non-zero margin of error in a color matching with this methodology result implies, it cannot be matched exactly with any method that uses color distribution functions (which includes curves adjustment, since it’s just the simplest subcase), but can only be approximated. The more color spaces that are used, the better the approximation.

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kk650 said:

DrDre said:

kk650 said:

That is definately better than the previous colour matching attempt but it is not indistuinguishable in terms of colour/image dynamics, the picture on the left looks fine but the picture on the right looks unnatural in terms of fleshtones, Indiana’s eyes in particular look very bad on the right and not at all like the picture on the left. The only thing worse than getting the fleshtones looking unnatural is having the eyes looking unnatural.

This is just nonsense. The RGB values for the flesh tones are identical, as such the flesh tones are identical. The only difference between the two images is the DNR applied to the bluray, which obviously has some effect on some of the image dynamics, which simply cannot be recovered by any methodology, least of all curves adjustment.

There’s no need to call my opinion nonsense DrDre. My eyes see what they see, regardless of whether you agree with them or not. I’ve been respectful to you and i’d appreciate the same courtesy.

We’re just going to have to agree to disagree. I’m not interested in discussing this with you any further until you create a release of Raiders of the Lost Ark using your own methodology. Then we can talk more, but not before.

Yeah, sorry I was a bit rude, but it seemed like a rather petty way to deflect reasonable criticism on one particular regrade of yours by shifting the focus of the discussion to quantifiably negligible differences between the 35mm colors and the second color match I presented. That pissed me off a little. Anyway, I should not have said it was nonsense, so I apologize.

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kk650 said:

DrDre said:

kk650 said:

That is definately better than the previous colour matching attempt but it is not indistuinguishable in terms of colour/image dynamics, the picture on the left looks fine but the picture on the right looks unnatural in terms of fleshtones, Indiana’s eyes in particular look very bad on the right and not at all like the picture on the left. The only thing worse than getting the fleshtones looking unnatural is having the eyes looking unnatural.

This is just nonsense. The RGB values for the flesh tones are identical, as such the flesh tones are identical. The only difference between the two images is the DNR applied to the bluray, which obviously has some effect on some of the image dynamics, which simply cannot be recovered by any methodology, least of all curves adjustment.

There’s no need to call my opinion nonsense DrDre. My eyes see what they see, regardless of whether you agree with them or not. I’ve been respectful to you and i’d appreciate the same courtesy.

We’re just going to have to agree to disagree. I’m not interested in discussing this with you any further until you create a release of Raiders of the Lost Ark using your own methodology. Then we can talk more, but not before.

I do have to admit, it seems a bit strange to me to not want to discuss your work with anyone until they’ve done their own regrade, or at least anyone who’s critical. Why put it on a discussion board in the first place?

I think I’ve done enough in the field of color grading, color matching, and for this community in general to be a party to a discussion on this topic, even if you don’t like what I have to say. In any case, it’s not appreciated, and so I will refrain from making anymore comments on your releases.