kevin kerner vs. john williams

There is no contest John Williams is known as one of the greatest composers, if not greatest composer of the 20th century.  Kiner is some upstart who does not even deserve Williams table crumbs.

You would have a harder time comparing John Williams to Jerry Goldsmith, who was equally prolific and has devoted fans for his star trek scores.

Whichever upstart JJ chooses for the new trek film would be a better comparison to Kiner.

Williams did write and score music for television even though he cannot be labaled as a tv composer, he was a movie composer of symphonic orchetstral scores.  The Scale of his works written for the LSO is not even comparable to a small tv hollywood orchestra.  Kiner is a tv composer, and as such writes for a different medium and his scores are tonally different completely.

Kiner's scores For the Clone Wars movie does not work for the movies but works well on the small screen.

I don't think this dude can really grasp the concept of the giant scale of motion picture scoring.  He did the score for Wing Commander.  When he gets films like the original star wars trilogy, the original indiana jones trilogy, E.T., Jaws, Superman under his belt then we can talk.

Oh and when he gets to conduct a real orchestra like the LSO let me know.lol.  I mean he would have had a tough job as is if he had to fill Williams role as Conductor of the Boston Pops. 

You also might as well Say who is a Better Indiana Jones composer Joel Mcneely or John Williams.  The other guy did Young Indy and was blasted by fans for not being as good as williams and for being different to copying him.  If you compare Mcneely to Kiner again Mcneely wins, His Shadows of the empire score is worlds better than the 2008 movie score for clone wars.  Plus his quoting of williams themes was much more faithful.

Overall i don't hate Kiner's work, it is just of the saturday morning cartoon variety.  And a lot of its sounds like jungle music which would fit tarzan but not star wars.  The main theme was butchered however for that he will never be forgiven by star wars fanatics.  Still in all fairness his music is not the worst music ever for star wars for that you have to look to the holiday special, and ewok and droids cartoons, and the christmas album.  Also to me nothing could be worse than MECO's electronic disco star wars.  My god that makes my ears want to bleed it is so awful. Some things should remain buried in the 70s and 80s for good reason.

Plus you also have Rap and Heavy metal renditions of the star wars theme which are an abomination.

You should see his listing on imdb completely unremarkable in comparison to John Williams.  3 sg-1 episodes to his credit an unamed amount of superboy episodes in 1988, star trek enterprise unnamed amount of episodes, and the Wing Commander movie are the only things remotely sci fi.

Oh wow he did the stewart little cgi movie, lol.

Geez even when Williams was just a tv guy he produced better stuff like lost in space.  As campy and rediculous as that show was.

Williams and Goldsmith both were in the 20th Century Fox band under Aflfred Newman who of course wrote the fox fanfare with Cinemascope extension that became the legendary opening to star wars.

Michael Giacchino is the guy doing the new trek.  Looking him up even he is better than Kevin Kiner.  I will look at his imdb, and lol.

So okay he did MI3, Lost, and Alias.  and Now fringe and star trek hmm, he beats Kiner to a bloody pulp.

Ooh, the composer for The Incredibles is doing music for Star Trek?  Awesome, because, like you, Johnny, I loved the score for that movie.

You should.

skyjedi2005 said:

Williams did write and score music for television even though he cannot be labaled as a tv composer, he was a movie composer of symphonic orchetstral scores.  The Scale of his works written for the LSO is not even comparable to a small tv hollywood orchestra.  Kiner is a tv composer, and as such writes for a different medium and his scores are tonally different completely.

You really suffer from a terminal case of Cranial Insertus Analatus, don't you?

John Williams at IMDb

Williams did PLENTY of TV scores early in his career, most notably the Irwin Allen 60's series Lost In Space, Time Tunnel and Land Of The Giants.

Kevin Kiner at IMDb

You're also not comparing them on the same level.  Williams has twice the time in the industry as Kiner, so naturally his body of work is going to overshadow a lot of the younger guys.

Joel McNeely

The fair comparison is Kiner and McNeely, who did Shadows Of The Empire.  Both of them have about the same amount of time in the industry, and both of them are re-interpreting Williams' work on the SW films for the projects they were assigned to.

That being said, the only reason McNeely might rate higher is because his score was done during a different attitude in the history of SW EU.  Shadows was designed to look and feel like it was always a part of the SW universe but we just never heard about it until now.  Clone Wars is trying for more of its own identity, part of SW but purposely having a different artistic style.

Without resorting to Drinking the Lucas kool aid how can you support Kiner.  He Butchered the Opening Theme for Star Wars.  Even Mcneely wisely avoided that.

Also Comparing Shadows of the Empire to the prequels is a joke.  Xizor may have been a Joke of A villain But at least Shadows had Luke Skywalker instead of Manakin Skystalker, Played by Wooden Actor of the Ages Hayden.

The Clone Wars is just an extension of the prequels and more of what went wrong with Star Wars while the real Star Wars remains buried and only available as laughable non anamorphic bonus discs.

I still argue that it is Laughable to compare a man of Williams Talents to Kiner.  Williams gets compared  to Wagner, Bach, and Mozart, Tchaikovsky etc.  Who is this Kiner dude seriously,lol.

I will quote what i said earlier and say again.      

"There is no contest John Williams is known as one of the greatest composers, if not greatest composer of the 20th century.  Kiner is some upstart who does not even deserve Williams table crumbs."

Obviously you're biased toward Williams and don't care what people think of Kiner.  Or rather, you care to the extent that they agree with you.

I was trying to level the playing field and compare Kiner to someone else on his level who's also done Star Wars music.

Forgive me for trying to be logical in your presence.

You are probably right.  I guess i am guilty of Prequel bashing Again.

Maybe if Kiner worked on Real Star Wars and did not ruin a classic theme i would give him a chance.

Again i don't think he is a horrible artist i just think he is not the Epical feel of Star Wars.  He is just the guy they needed for a childrens cartoon however.  That is the problem the Movie was advertised as a movie that was animated star wars that could be another episode up there with 1-6.  Instead it was a proof of concept that they used to sell the show to the networks and was sold as a standalone film to make a buck.

Who would ever Accuse Lucas and Warners of False Advertising,lol .

I can sort of feel the matinee serial vibe for his clone wars music perhaps he should score the new Flash Gordon movie. 

Oh by the way his Wing Commander score was better than that awful movie deserved.  Though he had help from the David Arnold who scored Stargate the movie, and Independence Day.  They said Kiner would follow him in the biz with epic movie scores too bad he got shit on for being involved in a crap film.

He gets respect for his Sg-1 music which of course adapted Arnolds score for the small screen.

In a way i am almost happy and glad that he is making the music his own and not Copying williams.  There are too many artists who copy rather than create something different and new.

The music is different but not bad in fact in like the clone wars music for the movie and the series.  Only the Opening theme gets on my nerves, but i guess i can get used to it.

The funny thing is why does the music sometimes remind me of jungle music or tarzan or something.

skyjedi2005 said:

Plus you also have Rap and Heavy metal renditions of the star wars theme which are an abomination.

Hmm... "Force Commander" (PC game) soundtrack comes to my mind? (just google "imperial rage")

skyjedi2005 said:

Michael Giacchino is the guy doing the new trek.  Looking him up even he is better than Kevin Kiner.

Giacchino did the score for "Medal of Honor" games, which was great IMO (got some award for this, too).