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kershner directing AOTC

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would kershner have made AOTC better if he directed it himself instead of george?

"Changing classic movies at all is just wrong." Puggo

"HA, Ha, you r ghey" was probably a hilariously insulting comment in Elementary and Middle School, but its not cooly insulting anymore and its certainly not funny: it makes people who say it look like, well, an "inbred monkey." TheSessler

"I'm still %20 the wiser. It amused me that after doing a google image search for "The Final Milf" the second picture is Roger Delgado followed by lots and lots of porn." Bingowings

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He would have refused to make it as it was.  So... yes?

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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Given Kershner's post-ESB efforts (Robocop 2 anyone?) I say:

Nooooooooooooooooo!!!

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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Well, given that he let the actors do their own thing a lot I doubt he could have improved much. Lucas may be a crappy director, but he wasn't working with much either (Natalie Portman/Liam Neeson/etc., while talented, seem totally uninterested in her role when she's onscreen.)

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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I rather liked Robocop 2 but the CGI was rubbish.

If it had been the first film it would have been a great movie.

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theprequelsrule said:

Given Kershner's post-ESB efforts (Robocop 2 anyone?) I say:

Nooooooooooooooooo!!!

Coming from "theprequelsrule," a dude who said the prequels suck in another thread....

...

Um...

...

Pass.

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TV's Frink said:

theprequelsrule said:

Given Kershner's post-ESB efforts (Robocop 2 anyone?) I say:

Nooooooooooooooooo!!!

Coming from "theprequelsrule," a dude who said the prequels suck in another thread....

...

Um...

...

Pass.

I thought the name was pure genius on my part. Irony for the win and all that.

I guess things would have turned out better if I collaborated with others on choosing my name. I should have learned from George's mistakes.

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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I love the idea of that thread...alas, it's too late for me.

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Article-Kershner-Would-Have-Directed-One-of-the-Prequels/post/453493/

Allow myself to requote myself.

skyjedi:

Unfortunately for Kersh the only good mainstream flick he ever made was Empire.  Robocop 2 and Never say never again were awful.

xhonzi:

It's true.  We tend to put Kersh up on this pedestal like he's God's gift to film directing, or to Star Wars at least...

But what else did he do that's worth a darn?

SilverWook:

The old "you're only as good as your last movie" argument, eh? ;)

<snip>

xhonzi:

Nah... I didn't really mean that.  What I meant was: Name one other thing that's in the same ballpark as good as ESB that Kersh had ANYTHING to do with.  If he'd made 10 awesome movies, and then one stinker, then I would be dropping the "as good as your last" argument.  I was more making a "if he was able to wrest ESB from Lucas and actually make it a good movie, he should also have a deep history of other awesome work" but I've never seen it.

I think we're all maybe suffering more from the "Anyone but George" argument.  Not that Kersh didn't do a great job... but maybe he doesn't deserve as much credit for ESB as we all want to give him.

SilverWook:

The late Leigh Brackett and Lawrence Kasdan deserve some kudos for crafting a great script to begin with.

Gary Kurtz for being a good producer and not a yes man.

Mark, Carrie, and Harrison, who in spite of their personal problems public and private at the time, gave it 110%, and didn't phone it in.

Frank Oz, for making us believe a little green rubber puppet was a living creature.

And the rest of a great cast, who made you believe in those characters even if you never saw their faces or heard their real voices.

This could potentially be a really long list. Just watch the closing credits of the film instead. ;)

xhonzi:
100% agreed. 

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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theprequelsrule said:

I love the idea of that thread...alas, it's too late for me.

Ask for your account to be abandoned and make a new one...or ask for a name change, though I don't remember if that is possible or not.

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TV's Frink said:

theprequelsrule said:

I love the idea of that thread...alas, it's too late for me.

Ask for your account to be abandoned and make a new one...or ask for a name change, though I don't remember if that is possible or not.

I think at this point I'll stick with it. Thanks for the info though.

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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xhonzi:

Nah... I didn't really mean that.  What I meant was: Name one other thing that's in the same ballpark as good as ESB that Kersh had ANYTHING to do with.  If he'd made 10 awesome movies, and then one stinker, then I would be dropping the "as good as your last" argument.  I was more making a "if he was able to wrest ESB from Lucas and actually make it a good movie, he should also have a deep history of other awesome work" but I've never seen it.

I would ask anyone who says this to name any other film they've seen of Kersh's other than Robocop 2 and Never Say Never Again (which is actually quite decent).

-Raid on Entebbe

-Flim Flam Man

-Return of a Man Called Horse

-Hoodlum Priest

-The Luck of Ginger Coffey

All terrific, terrific films. Kersh was a great director, but had one mainstream film that was taken out of his control (Eyes of Laura Mars) and chose one poor film that everybody saw (Robocop 2). His career after ESB was poor, I suppose, but one of the films was decent IMO so it's really only one true stinker with his name on it.

And yes, I think he would have made AOTC a great film. The actors look bored in George's versions because George is a boring director who doesn't know how to communicate or inspire his actors. They wouldn't be bored with Kersh and he might have even inspired them to invest in the film itself.

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TV's Frink said:

xhonzi said:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Article-Kershner-Would-Have-Directed-One-of-the-Prequels/post/453493/

Allow myself to requote myself.

 

Yeah, but have you *seen* AOTC?

Those Shakespeare-writing monkeys could do a better job on it.  Of course they'd need a little longer than three years...

Yes, I've scene it.  What's your point?

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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Kersh had skills, but so did Lucas (at one point). Would Kersh still have the mojo going? Did he have any mojo or, like Star Wars, was ESB good because of the collaborative effort involved?

Thinking about it more rationally without being a smart ass I think it could have been better. But would it have been good? I doubt it. There were just too many problems with the film.

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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theprequelsrule said:

Kersh had skills, but so did Lucas (at one point). Would Kersh still have the mojo going? Did he have any mojo or, like Star Wars, was ESB good because of the collaborative effort involved?

If you compare Kersh and Lucas on the ESB 2004 DVD commentary, and you had to pick which one still had his mojo...

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xhonzi said:

TV's Frink said:

xhonzi said:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Article-Kershner-Would-Have-Directed-One-of-the-Prequels/post/453493/

Allow myself to requote myself.

 

Yeah, but have you *seen* AOTC?

Those Shakespeare-writing monkeys could do a better job on it.  Of course they'd need a little longer than three years...

Yes, I've scene it.  What's your point?

I scee what you did there.

My point being that AOTC sucks.

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zombie84 said:

xhonzi:

Name one other thing that's in the same ballpark as good as ESB that Kersh had ANYTHING to do with.  If he'd made 10 awesome movies, and then one stinker, then I would be dropping the "as good as your last" argument.  I was more making a "if he was able to wrest ESB from Lucas and actually make it a good movie, he should also have a deep history of other awesome work" but I've never seen it.

I would ask anyone who says this to name any other film they've seen of Kersh's other than Robocop 2 and Never Say Never Again (which is actually quite decent).

-Raid on Entebbe

-Flim Flam Man

-Return of a Man Called Horse

-Hoodlum Priest

-The Luck of Ginger Coffey

All terrific, terrific films. Kersh was a great director, but had one mainstream film that was taken out of his control (Eyes of Laura Mars) and chose one poor film that everybody saw (Robocop 2). His career after ESB was poor, I suppose, but one of the films was decent IMO so it's really only one true stinker with his name on it.

Yes, all classic films irreversibly engraved on all of our minds.  An average of about 6.5 on imdb (for what that's worth).  The highest was a couple of 6.9s, the lowest in the 5's. 

I'm sorry, but I don't think your argument did much for me.  A couple films I've never heard of and several I know of while I haven't seen (scene?) them.  And then the two I have seen... and they are 'meh'.

My point is not that he's not a decent director.  My point isn't that he didn't do a fantastic job with ESB.  My point is that there's a lot of credit to go around in ESB, and I think so many of us are so disgruntled with GL, that we'll put all of the credit at Kersh's feet instead of spreading it around where it's due like SilverWook pointed out. 

Lol at the featured comment on Hoodlum Priest:

imdb guy:

Irv Kerschner, who was George Lucas' teacher at USC and later directed one of his pupil's Star Trek features, made this glossy well-meaning melodrama released by United Artists in 1961.

zombie84:
And yes, I think he would have made AOTC a great film. The actors look bored in George's versions because George is a boring director who doesn't know how to communicate or inspire his actors. They wouldn't be bored with Kersh and he might have even inspired them to invest in the film itself.

From what I know- only based on behind the scenes of ESB- Kersh really was an actor's director.  I do think you're correct when you say he probably would have pulled incredibly better performances from his actors.  And I don't think he would have let a lot of the stale dialogue stay in the picture.  Both of those things would have improved AotC.

Would they improve it enough?  I don't know.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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 (Edited)

As great as a job Kersh did with ESB, I am always weary when a fan says that the next sequel of that series he directed would be a slam dunk.

Jurassic Park is a classic directed by Spielberg, but Jurassic Park II is a horrible movie (IMO) also directed by Spielberg.

Lethal Weapon series gets ALOT worse with Richard Donnor directing all 4 movies.  The original is great, part II is a very good sequel, but part 3 is OK, and part 4 is really awful.

Many fans say Jedi (or the PT) would have been better if Kersh directed, but you just don't know.  Classic movies in Hollywood are very rare, so the easy bet is that they probably can't duplicate the greatness of the previous movie.

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Jurassic Park II is pretty much as good as the first one if not better in places.

The whole sequence with the bus and the two T-Rexs is a really clever bit of action pacing and the one rather annoying kid is much better than two rather annoying kids.

The ending was a bit of a kludge but at least it hasn't got that really unbelievable scene where only three raptors take down a whole Bob Peck (with a gun).

A film set on an island of genetically engineered Bob Pecks, that was the direction they should have gone in.

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Bingowings said:

 

The ending was a bit of a kludge but at least it hasn't got that really unbelievable scene where only three raptors take down a whole Bob Peck (with a gun).

A film set on an island of genetically engineered Bob Pecks, that was the direction they should have gone in.

Bingo for president of Peck Park.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

(It hasn’t happened yet)

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xhonzi said:

Yes, all classic films irreversibly engraved on all of our minds.  An average of about 6.5 on imdb (for what that's worth).

Not much. IMDB people are all from the devil's asshole.

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Tyrphanax said:

Bingowings said:

 

The ending was a bit of a kludge but at least it hasn't got that really unbelievable scene where only three raptors take down a whole Bob Peck (with a gun).

A film set on an island of genetically engineered Bob Pecks, that was the direction they should have gone in.

Bingo for president of Peck Park.

Almighty Bob says :

Make it happen or the teddy bear gets it!