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Han Shoots First - Any valid reason to not have Han shoot first?

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Personally this is an edit that really rubs me the wrong way. I personally love the scoundrel Han Solo, and I think it deepens his character that he would shoot first. I enjoy the little bit of “grey” values they credit him with, to me it makes him more real, more believable, and fits the role of smuggler and scoundrel.

Is there any room then for Greedo shot first? Is there any reason to ever leave this in a fan edit, apart from “George Did It”?

If you’ve done an edit of EP4 - which way did you choose, and why did you choose what you chose?

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[Subatomic said:]

Any valid reason to not have Han shoot first?

No.

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Greedo literally tells Han that he’s about to kill him. I’m surprised Han even decided to waste time saying “I’ll bet you have!”.

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Greedo was going to kill Han for the Bounty that Jabba placed on him, and take Han’s ship.

What was he supposed to do ask Greedo to a dance off like Star Lord.

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JadedSkywalker said:

Greedo was going to kill Han for the Bounty that Jabba placed on him, and take Han’s ship.

What was he supposed to do ask Greedo to a dance off like Star Lord.

Don’t give George any new ideas! 😛

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screams in the void said:

Han didn’t shoot first , he was the only one who shot . As it was ,and as it should have remained .

this ^

Mocata said:

George is the worst fan editor of all time.

He should come on this forum under an alias and have some fun… compete on merit alone… 😃

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I used the original version of the scene for my ANH project, mainly because Greedo shooting first is a total fuckup.

I did emulate the subtitles pretty well using Harmy’s and Catbus’ projects as reference.

I decided not to replace the flash frame of the Greedo dummy with a better looking frame from earlier, as Darth Editous had done, because I avoided non-harmonizing-OT-and-SE changes, though I wonder if that one might’ve been better to do.

One thing everyone can agree on is Greedo got SHOT. You don’t see blasters do that kind of damage very often. Greedo’s brothers (Slotho, Envio, Prideo, etc.) had to have a closed casket funeral. His childhood friend, Walz, committed suicide from grief.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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 (Edited)

Mocata said:

George is the worst fan editor of all time.

He should come on this forum under an alias and have some fun… compete on merit alone… 😃

He could already be here. You never know. He could be any one of us…

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Hal 9000 said:

I used the original version of the scene for my ANH project, mainly because Greedo shooting first is a total fuckup.

I did emulate the subtitles pretty well using Harmy’s and Catbus’ projects as reference.

I decided not to replace the flash frame of the Greedo dummy with a better looking frame from earlier, as Darth Editous had done, because I avoided non-harmonizing-OT-and-SE changes, though I wonder if that one might’ve been better to do.

One thing everyone can agree on is Greedo got SHOT. You don’t see blasters do that kind of damage very often. Greedo’s brothers (Slotho, Envio, Prideo, etc.) had to have a closed casket funeral. His childhood friend, Walz, committed suicide from grief.

I think you mean Wald?
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Wald

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

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Hal 9000 said:

One thing everyone can agree on is Greedo got SHOT. You don’t see blasters do that kind of damage very often. Greedo’s brothers (Slotho, Envio, Prideo, etc.) had to have a closed casket funeral. His childhood friend, Walz, committed suicide from grief.

Stop making me feel sorry for Greedo… you’re backing up George’s argument that Han shouldn’t have been a ‘cold-blooded killer’!

In an seriousness, I disagree with the change but I do understand George’s motivation behind it. He didn’t want Han’s easiness around shooting because he felt threatened to be considered ‘cool’ or whatever, but then of course Han goes on to kill a load of stormtroopers and sometimes unarmed Imperial officers on the Death Star; pacifism has always been played fast and loose in Star Wars, especially when on a one-on-one basis. Not least because the original scene, where the explosion happens suddenly in front of Han before the cut, is so much better - and the altered scene throws that pacing off - if I was doing a fan edit, I wouldn’t change it.

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

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SilverWook said:

Hal 9000 said:

I used the original version of the scene for my ANH project, mainly because Greedo shooting first is a total fuckup.

I did emulate the subtitles pretty well using Harmy’s and Catbus’ projects as reference.

I decided not to replace the flash frame of the Greedo dummy with a better looking frame from earlier, as Darth Editous had done, because I avoided non-harmonizing-OT-and-SE changes, though I wonder if that one might’ve been better to do.

One thing everyone can agree on is Greedo got SHOT. You don’t see blasters do that kind of damage very often. Greedo’s brothers (Slotho, Envio, Prideo, etc.) had to have a closed casket funeral. His childhood friend, Walz, committed suicide from grief.

I think you mean Wald?
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Wald

Yep, you can thank autocorrect for that one.

Well done. I will disengage self-destruct initiative.

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There is no merit to Greedo shooting at all, but there is merit to him saying Maclunkey.

Use the Force, Joh Yowza.

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jedi_bendu said:

In an seriousness, I disagree with the change but I do understand George’s motivation behind it. He didn’t want Han’s easiness around shooting because he felt threatened to be considered ‘cool’ or whatever

I just don’t understand how having them shoot a half second apart (then a quarter second, then a twelfth second, then at the same time) changes anything about Han’s appearance or motivation. Han still puts his foot up to block Greedo’s view. Han still plays with the wall to draw Greedo’s attention away. Han still pulls his gun out of his holster and change his entire mood once he has it out. He’s not doing any of that “just in case”.

If Lucas wanted to re-edit the meaning of the scene, he should have re-edited the entire scene. The single (now two) added shot changes less than nothing.

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doubleofive said:

I just don’t understand how having them shoot a half second apart (then a quarter second, then a twelfth second, then at the same time) changes anything about Han’s appearance or motivation. Han still puts his foot up to block Greedo’s view. Han still plays with the wall to draw Greedo’s attention away. Han still pulls his gun out of his holster and change his entire mood once he has it out. He’s not doing any of that “just in case”.

If Lucas wanted to re-edit the meaning of the scene, he should have re-edited the entire scene. The single (now two) added shot changes less than nothing.

I dont agree that George’s edit to have Greedo shoot first changes nothing…

It hits me completely different to see a shot coming from Greedo first, then Han’s shot tells me it was in immediate self defense. Originally, Han shooting alone, told me it was a self defense but from a slightly different preemptive place that matched more with his scoundrel/smuggler backstory. It told me Han was more streetsmart, shrewd, etc… whatever you want to call it, and less a gentleman (isn’t going to wait for Greedo or anyone else, to shoot first).

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 (Edited)

Even if you really like the change from a character or story perspective (for some reason) I’d like to see someone argue that Greedo missing him at that range is a great addition.

Yub Nub for life

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Here’s another wrench for ya. George argues that Han shooting second makes him like a cowboy. Well there is a factor in this that George leaves out. Han is already shown drawing his weapon moments before the actual kill. In Westerns it’s typical for the shooter to draw at more less the exact second of the kill. Han wouldn’t be drawing his weapon at all if he had no intention to kill Greedo.

And for me Gary Kurtz put it perfectly. (paraphrasing) “Han had to kill Greedo or he would lose his life”.

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Han shooting second makes him less like a cowboy. In a classic western shoot out, the villain generally draws first. Greedo drew first, and was holding him at gunpoint throughout the scene. In a western, if the villain shoots first, the hero gets shot. The villain draws first, so the hero has to react and draw faster to beat the villain to the trigger. Greedo made it very clear he intended to kill Han at that moment, so Han took his opportunity to shoot first.

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If you were trying to create a radical fan edit of the OT where Han turns out to be Force sensitive, then you could use him dodging Greedo’s shot as an early clue to his Jedi-like reflexes. Of course, Han having the Force is the only way I can make sense of his point-blank dodge to begin with, cause there’s no way a non-Force user could dodge like that.

You know, I remember seeing both versions of this scene (the original and the 1997 version) as a kid, and I recall being very confused by the blink-and-you’ll-miss-it exchange of blaster fire that had been added. It happened so fast and looked so janky, I couldn’t really tell what was going on in that split second.

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jedi_bendu said:

Hal 9000 said:

One thing everyone can agree on is Greedo got SHOT. You don’t see blasters do that kind of damage very often. Greedo’s brothers (Slotho, Envio, Prideo, etc.) had to have a closed casket funeral. His childhood friend, Walz, committed suicide from grief.

Stop making me feel sorry for Greedo… you’re backing up George’s argument that Han shouldn’t have been a ‘cold-blooded killer’!

In an seriousness, I disagree with the change but I do understand George’s motivation behind it. He didn’t want Han’s easiness around shooting because he felt threatened to be considered ‘cool’ or whatever, but then of course Han goes on to kill a load of stormtroopers and sometimes unarmed Imperial officers on the Death Star; pacifism has always been played fast and loose in Star Wars, especially when on a one-on-one basis. Not least because the original scene, where the explosion happens suddenly in front of Han before the cut, is so much better - and the altered scene throws that pacing off - if I was doing a fan edit, I wouldn’t change it.

The only unarmed officers might have been in the control room above the hangar, but those guys would have pulled an alarm switch if Han hesitated. Pretty sure all the detention block chaps were armed.

Thank goodness George didn’t want any moral ambiguity about a guy who smuggles drugs for a giant space slug. 😉

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Servii said:

If you were trying to create a radical fan edit of the OT where Han turns out to be Force sensitive, then you could use him dodging Greedo’s shot as an early clue to his Jedi-like reflexes. Of course, Han having the Force is the only way I can make sense of his point-blank dodge to begin with, cause there’s no way a non-Force user could dodge like that.

With a CGI double Han could flip the table and deflect the blast. Or you’d just have to make him stop the blaster bolt in mid-air just like his son, then you’d have reached the nadir of this sequence’s potential.

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Dek Rollins said:

Han shooting second makes him less like a cowboy. In a classic western shoot out, the villain generally draws first. Greedo drew first, and was holding him at gunpoint throughout the scene. In a western, if the villain shoots first, the hero gets shot. The villain draws first, so the hero has to react and draw faster to beat the villain to the trigger.

Right! It’s like George forgot what kind of scene he set up.

Greedo made it very clear he intended to kill Han at that moment, so Han took his opportunity to shoot first.

Another right! Han didn’t kill Greedo “In cold blood”, as George likes to say, he was clearly defending himself. Again, it’s like George forgot what was happening here.

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