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Fantasia - Special Edition laserdisc (Released) — Page 3

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SilverWook said:

Wouldn’t the CLV release be a better source for the video? I captured the PCM from my copy a couple years ago and no rot.

Would it? According to wikipedia,

CAV was used in the LaserDisc format for interactive titles; it was also used with special editions of certain films.[2] CAV allowed for perfect still frames, as well as random access to any given frame on a disc. Playing time, however, was 30 minutes on each side (these discs are also known as “standard play”), as opposed to 60 minutes on each side for CLV->based discs (“extended play”).

So CAV had half the amount of video of CLV, which would mean better quality vid than CLV? Plus it was CAV used for the higher end LDs.

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can confirm.

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Since one is capturing the video in motion, CLV or CAV is irrelevant. If there are audio differences between the editions, obviously you want the tracks from both…

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

Since one is capturing the video in motion, CLV or CAV is irrelevant. If there are audio differences between the editions, obviously you want the tracks from both…

Release the full clv video then maybe we can improve this release? We already have patched audio tracks so half the work is done right there.

My guess is it’s more or less the same audio for both.

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I don’t think I captured the video at the time, and most of my stuff is in storage for the foreseeable future. I can share the PCM audio if you could use it?

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

I don’t think I captured the video at the time, and most of my stuff is in storage for the foreseeable future. I can share the PCM audio if you could use it?

You did before and I have it, thanks.

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Doh! You’re welcome. Hard to keep track of such things sometimes. 😉

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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At first glance it looks like the audio from the CLV is basically the same as the stereo/fantasound track on the CAV release from myspleen. Which is what I would have guessed.

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I’m not sure how I feel about an uncensored Fantasia.

Getting back to the original film, without a number of digital enhancements, is unquestionably a good thing. But I’m not sure how I’ll feel when I actually see Sunflower present in the film itself instead as an excised curiosity.

Thank you, though, for your perseverance. I’ll look forward to seeing this!

“Before the Dark Times. Before the Prequels.”

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MattMahdi said:

I’m not sure how I feel about an uncensored Fantasia.

Getting back to the original film, without a number of digital enhancements, is unquestionably a good thing. But I’m not sure how I’ll feel when I actually see Sunflower present in the film itself instead as an excised curiosity.

Thank you, though, for your perseverance. I’ll look forward to seeing this!

Sunflower is part of the movie and part of what Walt himself wanted. Anyone who doesn’t like it shouldn’t watch Fantasia.

There are several other servant creatures in the Pastoral Symphony that aren’t named Sunflower. Nothing wrong with those either.

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MattMahdi said:

I’m not sure how I feel about an uncensored Fantasia.

Getting back to the original film, without a number of digital enhancements, is unquestionably a good thing. But I’m not sure how I’ll feel when I actually see Sunflower present in the film itself instead as an excised curiosity.

Thank you, though, for your perseverance. I’ll look forward to seeing this!

I’m white, and watching that scene still makes me uncomfortable, but it was definitely part of the original film and should be preserved. I mean this isn’t the only time Disney has stereotyped nonwhite cultures, and many of them are STILL presented in their original form ([cough] What Made the Red Man Red [cough]).

I hate the Disney Channel Live Action Universe

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Growing up, I was fortunate to watch lots of cartoons uncensored. Looney Tunes, Tom and Jerry, Disney, Tex Avery, and others. Those were my childhood. The mammy from Tom and Jerry yelling Thoooommmasss is a voice that resonates my youth.

Somehow, someway, I even managed to watch a couple of the censored 11. Not sure how, but when I watched them recently I definitely remembered a couple of them from my childhood.

On comes the pc police to tell me that my childhood was bad? They can go fuck themselves!

There are tons of cartoons that don’t portray Caucasian folks in a flattering matter. Characters ranging from Elmer J Fudd and Yosemite Sam to the likes of Beavis and Butt Head. No one ever complains about those or censors those.

In my view, feeling “uncomfortable” watching an uncensored Pastoral Symphony is exactly what is wrong with this nation and the world in general.

It’s come to a point where nothing can be done for fear of offending. Look at Apu from the Simpsons for instance! It’s enraging to even think about. But of course NO complaints about Cletus Spuckler and his family.

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Here’s a comparison of the LD, blu, and shots from the TonyWDA 35mm project.

LD: https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/93/e2/zKKAxg1A_t.png

2000 DVD: https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/be/c0/jG3MbZL4_t.jpg

2010 blu: https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/c3/f3/5N8CwTYS_t.jpg

35mm: https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/fe/ea/IBa44W9U_t.png

Here it seems the blu ray is closest to 35mm colors.

On the other hand, look at this comparison:

LD: https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/a9/45/o82fTs5m_t.png

2010 blu: https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/71/a2/9ptp4l9C_t.jpg

35mm: https://thumbs2.imgbox.com/37/e8/Ck48FlYF_t.jpg

Here the LD colors are closest to 35mm!

So who knows which colors are the most correct.

I must say though I do prefer the laserdisc colors in both cases. Regardless which colors are correct, the 2010 colors are look like the picture was dipped in blue jello and photographed from above the surface. The laserdisc colors seem richer and more varied. In the second one for instance, the laserdisc captures the essence of the hell and fire so much better than the 2010 one. The 2010 is lame in that respect. Another reason to be glad this laserdisc restoration now exists.

I’d say this Laserdisc restoration is the most definitive version that exists, even if it doesn’t look the best on HD TVs.

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I would greatly appreciate a link to download this.
Thanks in advance for all your hard work.

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Here’s a thought. In 1990 it went in the National Film Registry.

https://www.loc.gov/programs/national-film-preservation-board/film-registry/complete-national-film-registry-listing/

I know they refused to include the SE version of the original Star Wars. But what about Fantasia? Which version is in there? Sunflower or no Sunflower?

While I don’t know, my guess would be the same version that the VHS and Laserdisc got since it was put in the registry at the same time those were released.

So when you download this, you likely have a version of Fantasia that is better than what the Library of Congress has.

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I actually have the correct answer. They have 3 versions in their archives

They have the literal 1991 Special Edition LD release: https://lccn.loc.gov/96517622

A 35mm copy of the laserdisc version: https://lccn.loc.gov/92509477

The abomination that is the 1982 version: https://lccn.loc.gov/91482431

So basically here we have a version that is closer to the original than what the Library of Congress has. It’s confirmed.

Based on the notes of the 35mm link they are at least aware that parts of the original are deleted and what they have isn’t original. Why that doesn’t bother them is shocking considering their policy on Star Wars.

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Hello all. Just saw the “restaured and uncensored” version you did of the movie. Good job. Although, I have two things to poind out that stick out a little bit and could be corrected in the future:

1- The HD scan of the censored parts. Any chance to clean it it up a little bit ? It’s marred with both vertical lines and spots that could probably cleaned up alittle bit. Also, the images look a bit darker than the ones coming from the LD/Early DVD (I don’t think Blu-ray image was used on this, right ?)

2- The audio reconstruction. The sound is good, but seems very weak at times (almost too low). Also, the different sources do stick out a bit on occasion (differend hissings and lack of it). Any chance to rework it a bit more so the changes become seamless ?

Otherwise, very good job and thanks to everyone involved.

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monks19 said:

Hello all. Just saw the “restaured and uncensored” version you did of the movie. Good job. Although, I have two things to poind out that stick out a little bit and could be corrected in the future:

1- The HD scan of the censored parts. Any chance to clean it it up a little bit ? It’s marred with both vertical lines and spots that could probably cleaned up alittle bit. Also, the images look a bit darker than the ones coming from the LD/Early DVD (I don’t think Blu-ray image was used on this, right ?)

2- The audio reconstruction. The sound is good, but seems very weak at times (almost too low). Also, the different sources do stick out a bit on occasion (differend hissings and lack of it). Any chance to rework it a bit more so the changes become seamless ?

Otherwise, very good job and thanks to everyone involved.

Neither blu ray nor DVD image was used.

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monks19 said:

Hello all. Just saw the “restaured and uncensored” version you did of the movie. Good job. Although, I have two things to poind out that stick out a little bit and could be corrected in the future:

1- The HD scan of the censored parts. Any chance to clean it it up a little bit ? It’s marred with both vertical lines and spots that could probably cleaned up alittle bit. Also, the images look a bit darker than the ones coming from the LD/Early DVD (I don’t think Blu-ray image was used on this, right ?)

2- The audio reconstruction. The sound is good, but seems very weak at times (almost too low). Also, the different sources do stick out a bit on occasion (differend hissings and lack of it). Any chance to rework it a bit more so the changes become seamless ?

Otherwise, very good job and thanks to everyone involved.

For the audio, there are three sources used:

  • The audio on the laserdisc itself (a dolby surround encoding)
  • The DVD stereo
  • The 1961 vinyl for mono
    As you can imagine, we’re all over the place with eras of sound quality. The 1990 CD that was released with the LD/VHS unfortunately is edited the same as the movie, meaning we have no 1990-era audio to fix the deleted sections. The DVD is the second closest, but it is not mixed in Dolby Surround, meaning the spatial effects thin out and weaken during those ~5 seconds. The mono dub spots are just weak overall, what would be ideal is a magnetic copy of the mono soundtrack. I’m sure someone is in possession of one with the other Fantasia projections going on. This would eliminate both the hissing and scratching artefacts and provide better EQ (the vinyl copy is mixed very low and hardly has any bass). Of course, you could also just process everything to try to get as close to the LD audio as possible, which would be the quickest fix.
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Starbond9 said:

monks19 said:

Hello all. Just saw the “restaured and uncensored” version you did of the movie. Good job. Although, I have two things to poind out that stick out a little bit and could be corrected in the future:

1- The HD scan of the censored parts. Any chance to clean it it up a little bit ? It’s marred with both vertical lines and spots that could probably cleaned up alittle bit. Also, the images look a bit darker than the ones coming from the LD/Early DVD (I don’t think Blu-ray image was used on this, right ?)

2- The audio reconstruction. The sound is good, but seems very weak at times (almost too low). Also, the different sources do stick out a bit on occasion (differend hissings and lack of it). Any chance to rework it a bit more so the changes become seamless ?

Otherwise, very good job and thanks to everyone involved.

For the audio, there are three sources used:

  • The audio on the laserdisc itself (a dolby surround encoding)
  • The DVD stereo
  • The 1961 vinyl for mono
    As you can imagine, we’re all over the place with eras of sound quality. The 1990 CD that was released with the LD/VHS unfortunately is edited the same as the movie, meaning we have no 1990-era audio to fix the deleted sections. The DVD is the second closest, but it is not mixed in Dolby Surround, meaning the spatial effects thin out and weaken during those ~5 seconds. The mono dub spots are just weak overall, what would be ideal is a magnetic copy of the mono soundtrack. I’m sure someone is in possession of one with the other Fantasia projections going on. This would eliminate both the hissing and scratching artefacts and provide better EQ (the vinyl copy is mixed very low and hardly has any bass). Of course, you could also just process everything to try to get as close to the LD audio as possible, which would be the quickest fix.

Ah, ok. Figures. When you mention the DVD, are you talking about the british/region 2 one ? There was a rumor that this one retained some of the Deems Taylor’s speaches (which meens, it must have been made with a master from the LD, if true). Also, about the mags, I think there are some surviving and Poita did found one a some point. if we’re lucky, maybe someone else may have this.

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monks19 said:

Ah, ok. Figures. When you mention the DVD, are you talking about the british/region 2 one ? There was a rumor that this one retained some of the Deems Taylor’s speaches (which meens, it must have been made with a master from the LD, if true). Also, about the mags, I think there are some surviving and Poita did found one a some point. if we’re lucky, maybe someone else may have this.

The rumors are false. There is no Deems on anything newer than laserdisc.

He’s talking about the missing audio on the Pastoral Symphony. About 5 seconds from the DVD was used to patch it up. Read the write up for full info: https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/fantasia-special-edition-laserdisc-released/id/65087/page/2#1407146

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Class316 said:

monks19 said:

Ah, ok. Figures. When you mention the DVD, are you talking about the british/region 2 one ? There was a rumor that this one retained some of the Deems Taylor’s speaches (which meens, it must have been made with a master from the LD, if true). Also, about the mags, I think there are some surviving and Poita did found one a some point. if we’re lucky, maybe someone else may have this.

The rumors are false. There is no Deems on anything newer than laserdisc.

He’s talking about the missing audio on the Pastoral Symphony. About 5 second from the DVD was used to patch it up. Read the write up for full info: https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/fantasia-special-edition-laserdisc-released/id/65087/page/2#1407146

Ah, ok. Thanks

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So it seems Fantasia can be improved further.

On myspleen someone released a rip of the Australian DVD. The video of this release is apparently from the same video source as the laserdisc. Even at DVD5 it seems like an upgrade. The audio on the other hand is the same DVD audio but the narration (with Corey Burton dub) cut to fit the video.

So one would have to consolidate all the vob files to one video, slow it down to NTSC, insert the missing scenes, and drop the two audio files from this release. And the audio track of that release can even be kept as an optional third track.

Here is the write up on myspleen:

This is the 2000 Australian “Walt Disney Classics” release of Fantasia. Unlike most other releases, this uses the 2 hour long 1990 home video master, albeit sped up for a PAL frame rate- ending up with a runtime of 1 hour, 54 minutes and 30 seconds. The audio is a butcherization of the already butchered 2000 5.0 audio track (ft. Corey Burton overdubbing Deems Taylor) that has been cut to match.

Several noticeable differences to other, more modern releases include:

-Color timing is much brighter, especially in the “Nutcracker Suite” section of the film
-A recreation of the 1940 intermission card is used as a title, as opposed to the 1941 “RKO” titlecard used for the 81-minute cut and all post-2000 releases
-A ~115 minute runtime made to resemble the 1946 release of the film (which restored Toccata and Fugue), as opposed to the 124-minute 1940 Roadshow version

This is a substantial upgrade to the LaserDisc transfer I did and, even for the small size of the DVD, it looks great. It may or may not be an upscale of an NTSC source- however, since there is no proper release of the 1990 version on DVD format in an NTSC territory, this is the next best thing.

The only processing done was running the DVD through DVD Decrypter.