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clone wars season II — Page 7

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Vaderisnothayden said:

Gaffer Tape said:

That's not saying I haven't enjoyed EU, but if you honestly think it's anything more than a marketing push, you're seriously deluding yourselves.

 "but if you honestly think it's anything more than a marketing push, you're seriously deluding yourselves."

Yep. That's all the EU is.

 I don't follow. If you enjoy it, how is it any different than any other entertainment venture out there competing for your dollar? If George Lucas slavishly followed every idea laid out in every novel, comic, and RPG supplement, would that somehow make it NOT a 'marketing push?'

Would ROTS have been one ounce better if it was more closely tied to the adventures of Jangotat, or the BattleStar Space Medics? Would the new Clone Wars be any more enjoyable is the prodcucers made sure it tied in better with the 1970's newspaper strip?

What would be the product Lucasfilm could produce that is somehow NOT a marketing push?

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TheBoost said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

Gaffer Tape said:

That's not saying I haven't enjoyed EU, but if you honestly think it's anything more than a marketing push, you're seriously deluding yourselves.

 "but if you honestly think it's anything more than a marketing push, you're seriously deluding yourselves."

Yep. That's all the EU is.

 I don't follow. If you enjoy it, how is it any different than any other entertainment venture out there competing for your dollar? If George Lucas slavishly followed every idea laid out in every novel, comic, and RPG supplement, would that somehow make it NOT a 'marketing push?'

Would ROTS have been one ounce better if it was more closely tied to the adventures of Jangotat, or the BattleStar Space Medics? Would the new Clone Wars be any more enjoyable is the prodcucers made sure it tied in better with the 1970's newspaper strip?

What would be the product Lucasfilm could produce that is somehow NOT a marketing push?

That's not what I said, though.  What I said had nothing to do with one's enjoyment of or the importance of or the necessity of EU.  I enjoy the EU that I've read.  I read the Thrawn trilogy when I was in 5th grade, I've read Shadows, and last year I read Splinter of the Mind's Eye and the first four books of the X-Wing series, and I've genuinely enjoyed all of them and more.  My statement had nothing to do with that, though.  My statement was a reminder that, whether or not you like expanded universe material, Lucasfilm's attempt to make different levels of canon serves only to give themselves the best of both worlds loophole:  the EU material receives validation and is made to seem important in the history of the universe, but it can be easily discarded or ignored whenever the need arises.  It's as simple as that.  It's marketing.  That's all I was saying. 

To answer your question, no, I wouldn't have enjoyed ROTS more if EU stuff had been thrown into it.  I can't say anything about Clone Wars since I've barely seen it.  I tend to agree with VINH that EU stuff should be kept out of the films, especially since George himself doesn't follow it.  I think The Outrider in Star Wars is harmless enough in theory (except that it's a SE change and therefore shouldn't have been made in the first place--I'm referring to the practice of tiny, innocuous cameos in general), but it does present a mixed message that causes scratching of heads.  It's like Lucas is saying, "Well, I don't know what this ship even is because I haven't read this book, but I'm sure if I have it wink at the camera and can get my people to add a new entry into the databank, it'll sell a few more toys."

If you think that's a cynical view to take, it probably is, but I'm hardly cynical about it.  Like I said, C3PX was making me laugh.  It really is to laugh.

There is no lingerie in space...

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don't exist... then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks... and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming... Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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TheBoost said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

Gaffer Tape said:

That's not saying I haven't enjoyed EU, but if you honestly think it's anything more than a marketing push, you're seriously deluding yourselves.

 "but if you honestly think it's anything more than a marketing push, you're seriously deluding yourselves."

Yep. That's all the EU is.

 I don't follow. If you enjoy it, how is it any different than any other entertainment venture out there competing for your dollar? If George Lucas slavishly followed every idea laid out in every novel, comic, and RPG supplement, would that somehow make it NOT a 'marketing push?'

Would ROTS have been one ounce better if it was more closely tied to the adventures of Jangotat, or the BattleStar Space Medics? Would the new Clone Wars be any more enjoyable is the prodcucers made sure it tied in better with the 1970's newspaper strip?

What would be the product Lucasfilm could produce that is somehow NOT a marketing push?

I don't follow. If you enjoy it, how is it any different than any other entertainment venture out there competing for your dollar?

Not the real thing. It's ersatz Star Wars. I prefer to stick with something that's a bit more real (even if it's just following something that only has the significance of the modern Lucas ventures). When something's just the subordinate merchandising supporting the main product, well... If it's not obvious to you how it doesn't count then I don't know how to explain it to you. I'm not interested in something that's not the real thing or doesn't have some sort of relevance. Life is too short for that. I can spend my time on other things rather than on NJO books or whatever. There are so many other things I can do with my time. Even just in the category of reading material -I can, for example, read fiction by Liam O'Flaherty or Kafka or literature from ancient Sumeria or Ugarit or read the Silmarillion or read about history or anthropology or psychology or politics or current events or any number of other relevant subjects or authors, fiction and nonfiction. When I read fiction, I can read original fiction rather than stuff by writers writing for a big company to support a franchise. I don't have to waste my time reading the non-original fiction churned out solely to make a buck off fans of a franchise long after such franchise passed its best before date. If you want to read it, feel free to. It's your time, your choice. I don't judge you. I won't claim to understand your choice, but it's your choice to make. Just as it's my choice to not waste my time with it.

If George Lucas slavishly followed every idea laid out in every novel, comic, and RPG supplement, would that somehow make it NOT a 'marketing push?'

That's a good question. Arguably yes, because he'd be taking it seriously and respecting it more. It wouldn't just be this money-maker. Because for him to do that he'd have to have a totally different attitude to it and it wouldn't be just this subordinate storytelling, it would be an equal partner in a big collaborative storytelling effort.

Would ROTS have been one ounce better if it was more closely tied to the adventures of Jangotat, or the BattleStar Space Medics? Would the new Clone Wars be any more enjoyable is the prodcucers made sure it tied in better with the 1970's newspaper strip?

Some people would think so. I don't need it tie in with that stuff. I just note that the degree to which the EU is not binding on the Lucas material underlines its irrelevant just-merchandising status. Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling for Lucas to pay more attention to the EU than he does. In fact, I think I'd prefer if he'd quit paying it any attention at all and ignore it totally like the merchandising it is and do the decent thing and get his employees to quit calling it canon. This is not about whether the Lucas material would be better with added EU. This is about the EU's treatment by Lucas underlining its status and the very nature of what it is. It's just merchandising. It's not the real Star Wars story. Or even what passes for the real Star Wars story nowadays. Or even the subordinate merchandising story that was sold in the age when the real Star Wars story was current and alive to a degree it's never been since.

What would be the product Lucasfilm could produce that is somehow NOT a marketing push?

Some movie or tv series that was meant as mainstream Star Wars material rather than subordinate stuff just for making extra cash, something considered by Lucas and Lucasfilm as being on a level with Lucas's own efforts. But I'm not calling for something like that to be made. I'm just noting that the EU is not that.

Maybe you got my previous post wrong. The view that the EU is just merchandising and of lesser or no relevance is a view I strongly believe in, but most of the post was a personal rambling about how I treat it and how I feel, not about how anybody else here should think or act.

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Gaffer Tape said:

  I think The Outrider in Star Wars is harmless enough in theory (except that it's a SE change and therefore shouldn't have been made in the first place--I'm referring to the practice of tiny, innocuous cameos in general), but it does present a mixed message that causes scratching of heads.  It's like Lucas is saying, "Well, I don't know what this ship even is because I haven't read this book, but I'm sure if I have it wink at the camera and can get my people to add a new entry into the databank, it'll sell a few more toys."

The Outrider in ANH SE. Yeah, that really pisses me off, because I consider Shadows to be a unholy piece of jumped-up fanfiction stuffed into the Star Wars saga and Bash Fendar to be a Mary Sue and Han ripoff. I don't think EU belongs in the OT, even less than other changes (I'm even pissed off about EU stuff being put in the ROTJ radio drama, because the radio dramas and novelizations were being taken more seriously than the rest of the EU). But Lucas knows something about the Shadows story. He must have read some of it (read the comic? (Sue Rostoni said Lucas reads Star Wars comics) Or played the game?) , because he's said to have liked it. It's even been claimed by a poster here that Shadows was accepted into the Lucas canon and that putting the Outrider into the ANH SE was to cement that, though I've had no external confirmation of that. If Shadows was ever accepted into Lucas's canon, it's probably since been dropped, because when he's talked since then of what's his Star Wars he's mentioned movies and tv shows, not novels, video games and comics like made up Shadows. There was no footnote in his comments saying "oh and I also count Shadows of the Empire". But that doesn't mean he's totally forgotten it either, because apparently they put Xizor in the crowd in the podrace (I didn't spot him, but I'm told he's there -I'm glad I've never seen him) and a track from the Shadows soundtrack was included in the ROTS music.

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Well, from what I've heard, the Xizor was just an action figure.  I don't think he's, sigh, canonically supposed to be there.  It's just a little easter egg.

There is no lingerie in space...

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don't exist... then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks... and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming... Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Can somebody provide a photo of his appearance in that scene, so we can see?

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Is anyone still fans of  star wars anyway i mean the film series was ruined and destroyed by George Lucas and now he is doing the same to the EU, and i mean the fans the films were originally made for and not the new kids who don't know the special editions and prequels are garbage.

The canon of projects such as the force unleashed and clone wars are clearly higher than EU because of lucas involvement but they have not stated them as G-canon, As for Karen Traviss quitting because lucash crapped all over her creation of an elaborate culture and mythology for the mandalorians i can't comment.

Though Zahn was pissed when they killed Mara Jade without telling him or even running it past him.  And traviss was the one who wanted that to happen, it was probably also her idea for Jacen to go all sith.

Her idea  to kill off Luke Skywalker was denied, they allowed killing Mara though when the universe has few strong female characters, i will always think they were morons for that.

Its kind of funny how reading the zahn novels in the early nineties made me want to see a sequel trilogy and prequels, i now know better. I wish the special editions and prequels never happened they buried the real star wars and kept it in non anamorphic form even to this day on DVD.

Now Traviss writes for the Halo EU,lol.  I guess it makes sense since her thing was writing either mandos or clone troopers.

I can't blame Mike Stackpole for leaving and not writing star wars anymore he left just when star wars started turning into shit.  I'm truly surprised everyone has not jumped ship now that the EU has been drawn into line with the Lucas canon, there is few creative incentives to work in that universe and write fiction except money. 

Lucas owns all characters the authors write and can have them ruined whenever it so pleased him or the marketing department.  Who wants to write stories for the star warped universe that is not in line with the originals, but is a takeoff of those absolutely horrible prequels.

I mean you had posers pretending to be earlier versions of the characters.  Hayden is not a young version of anakin or vader consistent with the original trilogy, and even Ewan as kenobi was false as written thanks to lucas.  Even Luke and Leia's mom was made into a dumb person who does not even flinch when told of Anakin's murders.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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The canon of projects such as the force unleashed and clone wars are clearly higher than EU because of lucas involvement but they have not stated them as G-canon

I wonder about the Farts Unleashed. There's been all this talk of it being "canon", but when Lucas went and described what's in HIS Star Wars (basically the Lucas canon) in 2008 he sure didn't mention it. And the other canon is the Lucasfilm canon, and by that canon most SW video games are canon, not just Farts. Lucas was involved in it's making, but not all that much. There was talk of how Star wars canon was taken into consideration in its making, but that happens with star wars video games generally, so I don't see what's the big fuss. I wonder if it was all hype. How much does Lucas really take it seriously? There is a rumor that stuff from it will appear in the live action series. Maybe that would mean Lucas takes it seriously or maybe it'd just be like him appropriating Aayla secura and Quinlan Vos from the comics -that didn't mean the comics were suddenly a Lucas project.

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Im liking this season so far. Not a big fan of the whole bounty hunters thing. I think Anakin and Palpatine's relationship would be much more interesting to explore. Looking forward to the next episode. Anyone catch the cameo of Riyo Chuchi in the last episode?

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain.
"A myth is a religion in which no one any longer believes"...James Feibleman (1904-1987)
www . axia . ws/axia

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DANG IT!  STOP TRYING TO MAKE THIS THREAD ABOUT THE CLONE WARS: SEASON II!

Go start your own thread!

DANG IT!

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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I really enjoyed this last episdoe of the clone wars, pure Star Wars goodness.

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain.
"A myth is a religion in which no one any longer believes"...James Feibleman (1904-1987)
www . axia . ws/axia

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AxiaEuxine said:

I really enjoyed this last episdoe of the clone wars, pure Star Wars goodness.

 I dug it too. Lots of action, fun fights, no Jar Jar. It felt very Star Warsy.

Why is Asohka back in her jailbait outfit though? Wasn't she wearing something more befitting the dignity of her office and her underagedness for the first few episoes? Something with a midriff and sleeves?

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I dont think it had a midriff. But the out fit you are talking about was part of her zero-g suit when they went after Bane on board the separatist ship. I perfered the new look myself. More jedi like than what she usually wears

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain.
"A myth is a religion in which no one any longer believes"...James Feibleman (1904-1987)
www . axia . ws/axia

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AxiaEuxine said:

I dont think it had a midriff. But the out fit you are talking about was part of her zero-g suit when they went after Bane on board the separatist ship. I perfered the new look myself. More jedi like than what she usually wears

 I agree it looked better.

If you can see a girls belly, does the shirt have a midriff, or lack a midriff?

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The battles in the last two episodes were nice but they still suffer from being like a video-game. here come the super-duper tanks!

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TheBoost said:

If you can see a girls belly, does the shirt have a midriff, or lack a midriff?

 

Hmm...  I think I'm going to need pics to decide.  Yes.... lots of pics.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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this 2nd season has been coming on nicely..

seems like less episodes, and a longer break now..

 

but i've been enjoying the last few, and the developement

of the padawans.. also a little horror/intrigue/thriller plots

are a nice change from all the battles..

 

later

-1

[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]

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I wish they wouldn't portray Barriss Offee as such a submissive goody two shoes. I'm sick of all this jedi stiffness. Luminara is more of the same. I hope we aren't supposed to see these people as some sort of ideal.