Sign In

clone wars season II — Page 3

Author
Time

Sounds like a horrible idea. It's just the sort of crap I'd expect from this show.

Author
Time

I gotta admit... I'm with VINH! I hope this is false news.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

Author
Time

Aha. Thanks HotRod, for some reason I didn't catch that.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

Author
Time

i'm not someone who looks at a date...

whether it happens or not, i'm not watching it if its gonna be some crappy japanese anime.

Author
Time

rcb said:

i'm not someone who looks at a date...

So all your dates are blind dates?

 

Sorry.

Author
Time

There's no reason why something that was planned in 2005 wouldn't still be planned now.

Author
Time

Yes, yes there is. That sequel trilogy? Remember that?

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

Author
Time

The sequel trilogy ceased being seriously planned back in the early 80s. The live action show was planned back around 2005 and they're going ahead with it, so I don't see why they wouldn't be keeping to their plans for it.

Author
Time

Vaderisnothayden said:

Ziz said:

Well instead of just shitting on everyone else, how about contributing to the conversation - what shows of theirs do you consider worth saving/reviving?  What kind of "art" has come out of the Fox TV network that you consider worthy?

Expressing my wish for certain shows to be cancelled is not shitting on everyone else. To suggest it is suggests overidentification with one's tv shows. You are not your tv show. If I shit on Firefly I am not shitting on you. One needs to put a certain distance between oneself and the things one likes or else it becomes impossible to hang around a place where there's free discussion (which includes criticism) without getting all worked up and hurt all the time (on account of things you like get criticised or dissed). And expressing such opinions as I expressed IS contributing to the conversation. The fact that it's not contributing what you want to hear doesn't mean it's not contributing. Let's not get into the mindset some sites have where anything that is critical of something is "not contributing" and only stuff involving praising stuff is considered contributing. I'm sorry if my opinion bothered you, but I do believe in expressing my opinions even if they're not to everybody's taste.

Firefly was a great television show (clearly not to everyone's taste) but there was a large enough following to keep it going and it could overtime won over a lot more viewers, same with Crusade (which showed a lot of potential if the production crew were left alone to do their job).

Fox comissioned the show on the back of the scripts they received and then mucked the show about before it was aired just as TNT did with the B5 spin off.

Legend Of The Rangers was crap though and I'm glad that never got picked up.

I think they buy up these shows just to stop their competitors from getting hold of them and making a mint and then wreck them so they don't have to keep paying for them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

Author
Time

Crusade was really badly done. All the post-Babylon 5 stuff has been terrible. Crusade had a good cast, but that was all it had. 

Author
Time
 (Edited)

The original episodes were fine but in the series as we saw it (if we saw it at all) they were pushed around so they fitted in with TNT's new vision of what the then unbroadcast show should have been like.

So the pilot ended up being half way through the truncated season, the new pilot wasn't even finished and was rubbish and they had to come up with an instory explanation for why the uniforms and sets had changed and changed back, which is a stupid way to run a show.

Some of the stories were really solid as were some of the characters until TNT got their hands on them.

I don't know if you are familiar with the series bible but it showed it could have been a much stronger show than B5 was.

It annoys me that executives green light things and then back peddle and screw up what they actually agreed to do. The Lost Tales suffered the same problem, it ended up being almost a fan film, so many people actually volunteered their work on that project because Warner Bros wouldn't give them the money they agreed they would. The discs still sold well but JMS wouldn't do anymore on that sort of set up (a huge station full of people and all they could afford was a corridor full of nothing, that's hard to work around in terms of story).

The same thing happened with Firefly with some of the episodes being shunted around so they no longer made sense.

So many potentially interesting shows have suffered the same way with Fox that I'm convinced it's a way of buggering up things for their competitiors rather than actually making shows for themselves.

Tru Calling and Threshold were two other shows shafted just as they were getting off the ground.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

Author
Time
 (Edited)

I've heard the it-was-screwed-around-by-the-network argument for Crusade before. It doesn't hold water. It wasn't a lack of a coherent ongoing story that was the problem with it. The problem was in the individual episodes and the way they were made. Similarly, being seen in order doesn't improve Firefly -it still doesn't connect properly. There was something very dumb and shoddy about Crusade, like an effort was not being made. No way was any of it better than B5. B5 had feeling. Crusade was limp and by-the-numbers.

Threshold was mediocre at best. Worst use of Brent Spiner ever. The rival show Invasion was much better.

 

Author
Time

I'm sorry but it's a very valid observation that's held up by the evidence.

The planned episodes of Crusade followed a very different path to the one it was forced into and Threshold was actually rather fun (no classic but it was beginning to go places especially with the built in direction changes).

Some of the best shows on television show very little clue to their potential in the first season.

B5 was justifiably likened to a poor man's Star Trek going from season one (which had some of the weakest stories) something it found hard to shake off when it went to more interesting and epic places.

NuGalactica's mini-series showed none of the moreish wonder it would later show as a series.

Buffy was fun from the start but if you went by the first season alone you have no idea how great and daring it would get later.

Executives need to take more chances with the shows they commision if they want to get the most from their investment, commercial studios especially.

It's impossible to tell which shows are going to get a large and avid, money generating following going by first season ratings alone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

Author
Time

The networks are in such a rush to force a show to be a success and make instant money that they don't want to let it become successful on its own.

Star Trek:TNG's first TWO seasons were hit and miss.  They didn't work the bugs out of the system until season 3.

 

My outlook on life - we’re all on the Hindenburg anyway…no point fighting over the window seat.

Author
Time

Just out of curiousity, what are some examples of how Firefly doesn't connect properly?

I have only ever watched the episodes in the order in which they appear on the DVD, and other than all the loose plot threads that resulted from its being cancelled, the whole thing seemed to flow fairly smoothly.

 

While we are on the subject of sci-fi shows Fox murdered, I read a few days ago that there is some talks of a Sarah Connor Chronicles direct to DVD film o tie up the series. That would make me a very happy man... I hope it gets made, just to give the show a sense of closure.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

Author
Time
 (Edited)

C3PX said:

Just out of curiousity, what are some examples of how Firefly doesn't connect properly?

I have only ever watched the episodes in the order in which they appear on the DVD, and other than all the loose plot threads that resulted from its being cancelled, the whole thing seemed to flow fairly smoothly.

 

They didn't connect on TV because Fox just showed the eps in whatever order they felt like, so when you watched the show, characters are referring to past events that haven't happened yet and supporting characters who died 3 weeks ago are showing up again like nothing happened.  When you watch them in DVD order, everything makes sense because that's how they should have aired in the first place.  Basic continuity logic that Fox either didn't know about or chose to ignore.

My outlook on life - we’re all on the Hindenburg anyway…no point fighting over the window seat.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Bingowings said:

I'm sorry but it's a very valid observation that's held up by the evidence.

The planned episodes of Crusade followed a very different path to the one it was forced into and Threshold was actually rather fun (no classic but it was beginning to go places especially with the built in direction changes).

Some of the best shows on television show very little clue to their potential in the first season.

B5 was justifiably likened to a poor man's Star Trek going from season one (which had some of the weakest stories) something it found hard to shake off when it went to more interesting and epic places.

NuGalactica's mini-series showed none of the moreish wonder it would later show as a series.

Buffy was fun from the start but if you went by the first season alone you have no idea how great and daring it would get later.

I disagree. B5 was recognizably very good from the first season, as was Buffy. The Battlestar Galactica mini series was a fair guide to what the show was going to be like. So I think the first seasons of Threshold and Crusade are indeed a good guide to what they could have become. And leaving aside the question of what they could have become, we have the question of what they WERE, which can be judged from looking at we what we've got.

Obviously you found Threshold fun. I found it dull and uninspired. As for Crusade, the objections I have to it are unaffected by episode order. The whole nature of that show was massively uninspired. The excuse about it being screwed around by the network is constantly brought up, which ignores the fact that its problems go far deeper than that. It was just poorly done, in multiple ways. Were it merely screwed around by the network, there would be some hint of greater quality, but there was no such thing, no hint that this was something that could be good that was just screwed up by interference. It was just low level all around.

C3PX said:

Just out of curiousity, what are some examples of how Firefly doesn't connect properly?

It's not the sort of thing you can give examples for. It's a general thing that affects the entire show. It lacks depth of emotional connection. And viewing the episodes in the proper order doesn't help that. It's down to the basic mentality and tone of the show. And it just did not connect you with the characters with any strength of feeling.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

@Ziz I know that about the Firefly episodes having been aired out of order. My question was directed at VINH. He said that even in the proper order, they still don't connect.

Here is his exact quote, "being seen in order doesn't improve Firefly -it still doesn't connect properly."

I am interested in hearing him elaborate on this.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

Author
Time

Vaderisnothayden we will have to agree to disagree, I've seen the series bible for Crusade I know what direction they were going in and it was much more interesting than B5's first season and TNT screwed it up. The evidence is not only in dated documentation but also on screen.

B5's first season only really hints at where it is going to go at the end, up until then it's largely a series of not very connected episodic adventures. The worst episode is definately "Grey 17 Is Missing" but that a blip in a strong season of tightly knitted episodes, there are plenty of clunkers in Season One of which most of the episodes of Crusade stand well above despite the studio interference.

I'd much rather watch "The Path Of Sorrows" or "The Needs Of Earth" than "Infection" or "The War Prayer".

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Dp2OfIT_M

Author
Time

Bingowings said:

Vaderisnothayden we will have to agree to disagree, I've seen the series bible for Crusade I know what direction they were going in and it was much more interesting than B5's first season and TNT screwed it up. The evidence is not only in dated documentation but also on screen.

B5's first season only really hints at where it is going to go at the end, up until then it's largely a series of not very connected episodic adventures. The worst episode is definately "Grey 17 Is Missing" but that a blip in a strong season of tightly knitted episodes, there are plenty of clunkers in Season One of which most of the episodes of Crusade stand well above despite the studio interference.

I'd much rather watch "The Path Of Sorrows" or "The Needs Of Earth" than "Infection" or "The War Prayer".

 

I would put B5's season 1 episodes well above Crusade's. The station in season 1 was a well-realized setting, well brought to life, interesting stuff. There were multiple interesting episodes. Crusade was just one weak episode after another.

As for Crusade having a planned interesting direction in the bible, such a direction would not make up for the faults. An interesting overall story would not fix the fact that the way they were bringing their story to the screen in each individual episode was screwed up and low-grade. There simply was no fire of inspiration in the way it was done. And an inspired overall story would not mean an inspired way of portraying that story, and that's what Crusade was lacking. The show lacked feeling or conviction and lacked some other important things too. Every individual episode had the feeling of something perfunctory and unenthusiastically made. The only good thing about Crusade was the cast. Other than that, it had nothing going for it.

Legend of the Rangers and the recent stuff (I forget what it was called) being awful was not an abberation. The spinoff quality has been universally bad since after the B5 show ended. I think every franchise eventually reaches a point when it is loses it. That happened to Star Wars and it happened to B5 after the main show ended. I don't think they should have tried to continue the franchise past the main show, just as I don't think the SE or PT should have been made. Creators should know when to end a story, but people like making money and many fans want their stories to go on for ever. Personally, I prefer a story to end when it's still good. Like Frank Herbert should have kept Dune to one book and not have gotten into worm rulers and endless fucking clones. 

Author
Time

episode one of clone wars season II premiers tonight.

if there's one thing i never liked about the series, it would have to be the stupid endings, they're always so random.

Author
Time

well, yea watever.

anyways one hour season premier, no two half hour episodes, a hour long episode. yea. one hour!!!

Author
Time

so, what'd we all think? pretty good for a season premier.

i know it's supposed to be a kids show, but did anyone else notice the troopers head fly off when bane shot him?