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Cassian Andor - Live-Action Series — Page 11

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timdiggerm said:

I do think, however, the music has been all over the place from bad (the rock drums) to forgettable (the rest)

Oh, I LOVED the rock drums!

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I love the music in general. Nicholas Britell has always been a favourite of mine.

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

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timdiggerm said:

How about the latest episode?

Watched it now: it’s a bit better, using the same formula as the first arc, meaning being bored to death for 2 episodes and having some reward for the last one. Action is a bit generic and the human like Gungans are ridiculous (especially when Disney keeps pushing the “united colors of beneton” even on tribes that could not really experience mixity, but Disney is what it is nowadays…). Top Imp guy is too much of the bad guy cliché for the show to pretend to be more than a “Nolan’s kind of serious stuff for teenagers”, so I’m really not sold on it to be so layered and adult (again, it requires more than people not smilling to get this label, but I see the efforts the show provides to try to be more than pretentious pulp stories). It was a bit mediocre but not worse than the average shows on tv. Visually it’s a good job: too grey oriented but some photography work that here and there pumps up tension with “oh, it looks cool” moments (ie the Tie fighters short scene). I’ll probably keep watching to see if the second part of the season can build on something satisfying; if it doesn’t, that’s ok: I don’t have high expectations about it. The music is totally lame btw.

Sometimes when I see this show, I wonder what a really good star wars high tech thriller could have been in the hands of the great Tony Scott (who knew how to make adult movies - Spy games, Enemy of the state, Man on fire, etc. - where you can still be entertained; something Gilroy doesn’t quite know how to do).

Still way better than the Ben show for sure (the lowest point of Disney wars on tv).

So long 🙌

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MalaStrana#2 said:

timdiggerm said:

How about the latest episode?

Watched it now: it’s a bit better, using the same formula as the first arc, meaning being bored to death for 2 episodes and having some reward for the last one. Action is a bit generic and the human like Gungans are ridiculous (especially when Disney keeps pushing the “united colors of beneton” even on tribes that could not really experience mixity, but Disney is what it is nowadays…). Top Imp guy is too much of the bad guy cliché for the show to pretend to be more than a “Nolan’s kind of serious stuff for teenagers”, so I’m really not sold on it to be so layered and adult (again, it requires more than people not smilling to get this label, but I see the efforts the show provides to try to be more than pretentious pulp stories). It was a bit mediocre but not worse than the average shows on tv. Visually it’s a good job: too grey oriented but some photography work that here and there pumps up tension with “oh, it looks cool” moments (ie the Tie fighters short scene). I’ll probably keep watching to see if the second part of the season can build on something satisfying; if it doesn’t, that’s ok: I don’t have high expectations about it. The music is totally lame btw.

Sometimes when I see this show, I wonder what a really good star wars high tech thriller could have been in the hands of the great Tony Scott (who knew how to make adult movies - Spy games, Enemy of the state, Man on fire, etc. - where you can still be entertained; something Gilroy doesn’t quite know how to do).

Still way better than the Ben show for sure (the lowest point of Disney wars on tv).

Considering your use of the term “Disney Wars” and the way you seem to search for things to rant about, i’m sorry but i can’t take this post seriously.

You’ve already made up your mind about the show and nothing will ever change your opinion. As long as the franchise belongs to Disney, nothing will ever be good or good enough for you.

I would almost bet that if the show would have been made exactly like this under GL’s supervision (or without Disney being involved), you would be far more generous to the show.

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I like the show a lot but I wish people wouldn’t throw around terms like “spy thriller” or “political thriller” or talk about how it dissects capitalism or something.

Those are corporate buzzwords just as much as anything else. The MCU does the same thing, they put out a movie and they’ll call it a “political thriller” or a “heist movie” or a “horror movie” and then they just make a normal superhero action movie with some genre flavoring. And I like those movies a lot, I just don’t like it when people read marketing materials and then spout them verbatim from whatever Kevin Feige or whoever said. People here did it with “The Skywalker Saga.” That was a marketing term used to promote Rise of Skywalker. Even though most here hated that movie, they bought it hook, line, and sinker and felt compelled to make unnecessary 9 movie mega edits because of it, because you have to have the complete Skywalker Saga.

Guarantee most people today who use the term “political thriller” would not even know that genre existed if it weren’t for these corporate brands using it in that way.

Star Wars stands on its own without feeling insecure and talking about how this is ADULT and SERIOUS and INTELLIGENT. It’s just a well written, well made, well directed show.

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Darth Caliban said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

timdiggerm said:

How about the latest episode?

Watched it now: it’s a bit better, using the same formula as the first arc, meaning being bored to death for 2 episodes and having some reward for the last one. Action is a bit generic and the human like Gungans are ridiculous (especially when Disney keeps pushing the “united colors of beneton” even on tribes that could not really experience mixity, but Disney is what it is nowadays…). Top Imp guy is too much of the bad guy cliché for the show to pretend to be more than a “Nolan’s kind of serious stuff for teenagers”, so I’m really not sold on it to be so layered and adult (again, it requires more than people not smilling to get this label, but I see the efforts the show provides to try to be more than pretentious pulp stories). It was a bit mediocre but not worse than the average shows on tv. Visually it’s a good job: too grey oriented but some photography work that here and there pumps up tension with “oh, it looks cool” moments (ie the Tie fighters short scene). I’ll probably keep watching to see if the second part of the season can build on something satisfying; if it doesn’t, that’s ok: I don’t have high expectations about it. The music is totally lame btw.

Sometimes when I see this show, I wonder what a really good star wars high tech thriller could have been in the hands of the great Tony Scott (who knew how to make adult movies - Spy games, Enemy of the state, Man on fire, etc. - where you can still be entertained; something Gilroy doesn’t quite know how to do).

Still way better than the Ben show for sure (the lowest point of Disney wars on tv).

Considering your use of the term “Disney Wars” and the way you seem to search for things to rant about, i’m sorry but i can’t take this post seriously.

You’ve already made up your mind about the show and nothing will ever change your opinion. As long as the franchise belongs to Disney, nothing will ever be good or good enough for you.

I would almost bet that if the show would have been made exactly like this under GL’s supervision (or without Disney being involved), you would be far more generous to the show.

I really regret that this forum is trapped in this way of running discussions : the show / movie / etc is never discussed, just assumptions about some kind of « hidden agenda » of the guy who wrote a post is discussed. Whatever I write, if it’s positive it will get unnoticed. If it’s negative, I will get the garbage whining comments of « you’re so mean it’s because you hate Disney 😭 ». Very immature and happens EACH fucking time.

But I’m not surprised when a mod (who has a deep issue of acting as an attention whore) is himself going in this kind of hunts. I thought the forum would get better with mean spirited people leaving this past couple years (unfortunately losing along actuel nice people such as Jason). Disappointing.

Well, I won’t lose more time posting in such a close minded forum. My connection to Star Wars has been severed multiple times these past decades, from disappointing choices for the SE, to very disturbing ideas for the PT, to huge embarrassment during the ST era. A few glimpses of light don’t weigh much.

Anyway. I leave you along people always satisfied with anything you watch, deriving any theory to pretend you saw some depth in Hux like vilains…

So long guys and wish you the best 🙌

So long 🙌

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Vladius said:

I like the show a lot but I wish people wouldn’t throw around terms like “spy thriller” or “political thriller” or talk about how it dissects capitalism or something.

Those are corporate buzzwords just as much as anything else. The MCU does the same thing, they put out a movie and they’ll call it a “political thriller” or a “heist movie” or a “horror movie” and then they just make a normal superhero action movie with some genre flavoring. And I like those movies a lot, I just don’t like it when people read marketing materials and then spout them verbatim from whatever Kevin Feige or whoever said. People here did it with “The Skywalker Saga.” That was a marketing term used to promote Rise of Skywalker. Even though most here hated that movie, they bought it hook, line, and sinker and felt compelled to make unnecessary 9 movie mega edits because of it, because you have to have the complete Skywalker Saga.

Guarantee most people today who use the term “political thriller” would not even know that genre existed if it weren’t for these corporate brands using it in that way.

Star Wars stands on its own without feeling insecure and talking about how this is ADULT and SERIOUS and INTELLIGENT. It’s just a well written, well made, well directed show.

I think the counter-shill can be just as unproductive, because I do think someone like Tony Gilroy put a lot of thought and effort into making his show.

I think it’s a shame that all other media more or less gets to be taken in as their own pieces, to be analyzed with all the nerdy film stuff that I fell in love with as a film fan in the first place. But Star Wars doesn’t get to have that anymore, because of The Boss, I guess. Not saying every project released under Disney deserves it, but I lament how we can have threads discussing stuff like what balance in the Force means to us individually + other headcanons, or even how much George Lucas may/may not have known what he was doing, etc… But Andor - dense with its own substance and cool things to dissect - is still stuck in the culture proxy war. Even when it’s positive, it’s just, “Can you believe how much better it is than BOBF or Kenobi???”

Either way, I think drawing attention to Disney [The Nebulous Entity] Doesn’t Care, as though that’s news to anyone, is ironically far shallower a direction to lead discussion than anything the show is putting down itself. I’d rather appreciate where studio and artist meet in the middle and that there can be wins on the creative side of this soul-crushing churn, than rehash the same tired cynicism that fundamentally misunderstands how the industry works anyway.

I haven’t used the “political thriller” moniker myself, but I do think this show is very, un-accidentally political. I don’t see the purpose in handwaving any intentions or themes in the material.

It’s just a little disheartening to write up an earnest, excited breakdown of cool things I could take away from the work, and then for someone to twist it as corporate shilling

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Vladius said:

People here did it with “The Skywalker Saga.” That was a marketing term used to promote Rise of Skywalker. Even though most here hated that movie, they bought it hook, line, and sinker and felt compelled to make unnecessary 9 movie mega edits because of it, because you have to have the complete Skywalker Saga.

Sure, but it’s not like the only reason people see some overarching something between 1-9 is because of marketing. Although I think I agree with you that there are probably more 9 movie mega edits than we probably need.

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jedi_bendu said:

I do really like Syril Karn as a very different kind of Star Wars antagonist because he’s not an evil space wizard, he’s just a cog in the system.

Yeah, lots of cool stuff like this in the show. Learned all the right things from the PT, which is the only other SW material that really deals with the themes the show is tackling that everyone keeps praising.

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NFBisms said:

Vladius said:

I like the show a lot but I wish people wouldn’t throw around terms like “spy thriller” or “political thriller” or talk about how it dissects capitalism or something.

Those are corporate buzzwords just as much as anything else. The MCU does the same thing, they put out a movie and they’ll call it a “political thriller” or a “heist movie” or a “horror movie” and then they just make a normal superhero action movie with some genre flavoring. And I like those movies a lot, I just don’t like it when people read marketing materials and then spout them verbatim from whatever Kevin Feige or whoever said. People here did it with “The Skywalker Saga.” That was a marketing term used to promote Rise of Skywalker. Even though most here hated that movie, they bought it hook, line, and sinker and felt compelled to make unnecessary 9 movie mega edits because of it, because you have to have the complete Skywalker Saga.

Guarantee most people today who use the term “political thriller” would not even know that genre existed if it weren’t for these corporate brands using it in that way.

Star Wars stands on its own without feeling insecure and talking about how this is ADULT and SERIOUS and INTELLIGENT. It’s just a well written, well made, well directed show.

I think the counter-shill can be just as unproductive, because I do think someone like Tony Gilroy put a lot of thought and effort into making his show.

I think it’s a shame that all other media more or less gets to be taken in as their own pieces, to be analyzed with all the nerdy film stuff that I fell in love with as a film fan in the first place. But Star Wars doesn’t get to have that anymore, because of The Boss, I guess. Not saying every project released under Disney deserves it, but I lament how we can have threads discussing stuff like what balance in the Force means to us individually + other headcanons, or even how much George Lucas may/may not have known what he was doing, etc… But Andor - dense with its own substance and cool things to dissect - is still stuck in the culture proxy war. Even when it’s positive, it’s just, “Can you believe how much better it is than BOBF or Kenobi???”

Either way, I think drawing attention to Disney [The Nebulous Entity] Doesn’t Care, as though that’s news to anyone, is ironically far shallower a direction to lead discussion than anything the show is putting down itself. I’d rather appreciate where studio and artist meet in the middle and that there can be wins on the creative side of this soul-crushing churn, than rehash the same tired cynicism that fundamentally misunderstands how the industry works anyway.

I haven’t used the “political thriller” moniker myself, but I do think this show is very, un-accidentally political. I don’t see the purpose in handwaving any intentions or themes in the material.

It’s just a little disheartening to write up an earnest, excited breakdown of cool things I could take away from the work, and then for someone to twist it as corporate shilling

I don’t necessarily mean Disney specifically, I just mean the marketing around the show and the way people talk about it. The show is good in large measure because it seems like they permitted a lot of creative freedom and budget, which is unusual for them and deserves credit. Like I said, it’s a good show. But I think it can stand on its own without people exaggerating how mature and “political” it is. It’s like they feel ashamed that Star Wars is perceived as childish, so they have to compensate by describing it in serious terms. And generally not serious terms that they would use in other cases, serious terms that come from marketing or from reading thinkpieces about it or watching YouTube essays.
It’s like people that don’t want to admit they read comic books, so they call them “graphic novels.”

The other thing that bugs me is when people say things like “Star Wars has NEVER been this realistic/grounded/detailed etc.” because that’s not true either. There are lots of Star Wars stories that get into that kind of mindset. It’s just that most people only know the movies, and movies by their very nature can’t be too slow or too detailed because of their runtime. The show reminds me of an EU book, in a good way.

edit: Obviously it is political in some ways and some of that is intentional. But I think it should be acknowledged that it is much more subtle and well done than what the people who say “Star Wars was always political” generally mean. Star Wars politics are a mishmash of the Roman Republic and Empire, Napoleon, the American Civil War, World War 2, and the Vietnam War, but when people say “Star Wars was always political” they’re generally defending the sequel trilogy or people in real life interpreting Rogue One in the lens of the 2016 election, for example. An oversimplistic us vs. them narrative that just calls the Empire “fascist space Nazis” as though there’s nothing else to it and nothing else going on. Although Andor seems like it’s aimed at those people and the marketing and some creator statements point that way, the show itself is much smarter than that. People in the Empire are portrayed as real people with real motivations, emotions, and reasons for what they do. People in the rebellion have to make difficult decisions and don’t always come off as sympathetic and heroic. This is good stuff strictly BECAUSE it does not agree with any particular real world political philosophy, it just depicts the realities of bureaucracy and the use of force in various ways.

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What’s your archetype psychoanalysis for someone who thinks the sequel trilogy is extremely apolitical, but that Andor is antifa lmao?

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NFBisms said:

What’s your archetype psychoanalysis for someone who thinks the sequel trilogy is extremely apolitical, but that Andor is antifa lmao?

Someone who actually understands how politics works, rather than succumbing to oversimplified good-vs-evil propaganda. I love the politics of Andor for the same reasons you described: it has a strong message about rebelling against fascism, without showing said fascism in the ridiculous cartoonish way that the sequels did. The villains all have three-dimensional, compelling motivations, but that doesn’t mean they’re not evil. It toes the line between “Everyone who disagrees with me is literally Satan” and “Both sides are equally right somehow”, and does so brilliantly.

My preferred Skywalker Saga experience:
I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX

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Friendly reminder that discussing the politics presented in-universe is fine but real world politics is not allowed.

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Episode 7 is one of the best Star Wars things I’ve ever seen.
I would love some nuts and bolts stuff like this for some of the other movies, like, while you’re at it, can you film some scenes of palpy dissolving the senate for episode 4 iserts and some mon mothma/rebel stuff to add, too, to bridge it?

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This show could have been called Mon Mothma. Genevieve O’Reilly is absolutely terrific in this. All of the performances are actually as good as anything in live-action Star Wars. And while it could probably benefit from some trimming, I really dig the storytelling. Reminds me of the 90s pre-PT X-Wing book series for some reason.

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I don’t think it needs trimming at all. I know this is a fanedit site and that is probably herersy, some things are fine just like they are.
And I agree, Mon Mothma is the bomb. I love all of this however I am really enjoying anything that has to do with the ISB and Mon Mothma.

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Agreed. This show is absolute peak Star Wars. Can’t wait for next Wednesday!!

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Tobar said:

Friendly reminder that discussing the politics presented in-universe is fine but real world politics is not allowed.

Noted , and also noted that I am not the one who brought that word into the conversation . Two wrongs don’t make a right however , so apologies on my part . Moving on , I thought episode 7 was great , though I had a hard time believing a certain character got so careless after everything that has happened so far . Kept thinking about how a one could learn to think quickly on their feet … Take some cues from Lando . Specifically , a scene in the original Marvel Star Wars comic issue 51 ,where Lando bribes some Stormtroopers with some " Narco Spice " to get them off his tail . I know , the comic has a different tone from the show …just struck me funny . I also like the way the director handled the shot compositions …felt very Star Wars to me .

https://screamsinthevoid.deviantart.com/

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Question for the group. Contains a spoiler

Do you think Kleya is acting on her own by arranging a meeting with Vel and telling her to kill Cassian? I get the feeling from the secretive nature of the meeting and Vel wondering why Luthen isn’t there with her that Kleya may not have told Luthen about her plan. I also get the impression that Vel isn’t going to do it since Cassian protected her by doing away with Skeen and leaving her all the money. He did the right thing for her, I think she’ll return the favor.

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Anchorhead said:

Question for the group. Contains a spoiler

Do you think Kleya is acting on her own by arranging a meeting with Vel and telling her to kill Cassian? I get the feeling from the secretive nature of the meeting and Vel wondering why Luthen isn’t there with her that Kleya may not have told Luthen about her plan. I also get the impression that Vel isn’t going to do it since Cassian protected her by doing away with Skeen and leaving her all the money. He did the right thing for her, I think she’ll return the favor.

I totally agree

ROTJ Storyboard Reconstruction Project

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Anchorhead said:

Question for the group. Contains a spoiler

Do you think Kleya is acting on her own by arranging a meeting with Vel and telling her to kill Cassian? I get the feeling from the secretive nature of the meeting and Vel wondering why Luthen isn’t there with her that Kleya may not have told Luthen about her plan. I also get the impression that Vel isn’t going to do it since Cassian protected her by doing away with Skeen and leaving her all the money. He did the right thing for her, I think she’ll return the favor.

Spoilers:

I have a feeling there’s more to the relationship between Luthen and Kleya than meets the eye. She seems to be his assistant, but the way she spoke to him at the end of episode 5 made it feel like she was the one in control, and now I agree it seems like Luthen has no knowledge of her meeting with Vel.

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

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jedi_bendu said:

Anchorhead said:

Question for the group. Contains a spoiler

Do you think Kleya is acting on her own by arranging a meeting with Vel and telling her to kill Cassian? I get the feeling from the secretive nature of the meeting and Vel wondering why Luthen isn’t there with her that Kleya may not have told Luthen about her plan. I also get the impression that Vel isn’t going to do it since Cassian protected her by doing away with Skeen and leaving her all the money. He did the right thing for her, I think she’ll return the favor.

Spoilers:

I have a feeling there’s more to the relationship between Luthen and Kleya than meets the eye. She seems to be his assistant, but the way she spoke to him at the end of episode 5 made it feel like she was the one in control, and now I agree it seems like Luthen has no knowledge of her meeting with Vel.

I like this very much. I am not sure it will be correct, but it is much fun to think about.

That is something else great about this show, it makes us think about it, what is happening, what will happen, what we would like to see. The characters, their motivations and actions, and the world building in Andor has been fantastic.

I think Kleya may “clean up” for Luthen much more than Luthen is aware of. She IS loyal to him, but she gets her hands dirty more than he or anyone else knows about.

This whole series has blown me away. Each episode leaves me wanting more, and just don’t want this series to end at all. Much credit and thank you to everyone involved in making this show. I hope we see a little more Star Wars shown in a similar way to the Andor show in the future.

I even want more time on Niamos, with synth soundtracks and Miami Vice feel.

The Imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear.