Sign In

Ahsoka Tano - discussion — Page 2

Author
Time
 (Edited)

StarkillerAG said:

Rodney-2187 said:

StarkillerAG said:

he seems intent on shoehorning Ahsoka into every project he works on.

She is not in every project he works on. She was not in Resistance. Also, I wouldn’t say being a supporting character in just a few episodes of Rebels would constitute shoehorning. Her popularity makes it seem like she’s everywhere because she is frequently mentioned, but shes mostly just in The Clone Wars.

I completely forgot about Resistance, actually (I think everyone has). And I guess she really isn’t in that much of Rebels, but the thing that set me over the edge of “This character is clearly the author’s favorite” is when Ezra traveled back in time in order to save her from Darth Vader. Like, she didn’t need to survive past that fight, it was a perfect end for her character. But Filoni contrived the situation so that he can break the rules of space and time in order to save his author’s pet.

StarkillerAG said:

making it so that she can never die causes her to overstay her welcome somewhat.

I’m sure she can die, but It would be hard for a character as popular as you’ve mentioned Ahsoka is to overstay her welcome.

I actually don’t know if she can die. Besides the aforementioned time travel, there’s also the moment in TROS where she spoke to Rey. It made it seem like she died, but then Filoni was like “No, she actually survives past TROS,” and Ahsoka’s dialogue was retconned in the subtitles to “Female Jedi #4.” That also made me wonder if Filoni will ever just let this character rest. And I do think it’s possible for a popular character to overstay their welcome, and that’s generally what’s happening with me for Ahsoka.

It’s not like Filoni wrote that she died fighting Vader then changed his mind and rescued her. We see her walking away after the fight. I think it was his idea to do something like that from the beginning.

I’d never heard of “Female Jedi #4” before. I turned on subtitles for TRoS on D+ and still see Ahsoka written, and in the credits under Voices of Jedi Past it still says Ashoka Tano - Ashley Eckstein.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

it still says Ashoka Tano

I hope it wouldn’t make such an egregious spelling error! 😉 Every time I see Ashoka I read it in Sean Connery’s voice (RIP).

My hot take is that Ahsoka is a ridiculous Mary Sue author-insert shoehorned-in overpowered OC - it’s absurd that Anakin Skywalker would have a padawan he never mentioned, who was the only Jedi with sufficient foresight to leave the Order (and in doing so became a key influence on Anakin’s fall), was a key founding member of the Rebel Alliance, has held her own against Grievous, Maul, Vader and Sidious, survived the entire Original Trilogy, and has even had her life saved by time travel. I would however, love to see her in everything: I want to see her meet Luke Skywalker and help set up the New Jedi Order, I want an elderly Ahsoka to inspire and pass knowledge down to Rey, and I want her to talk to have an emotional conversation with Anakin’s force ghost. She’s great.

Author
Time

A big disappointment I realize I had with her Rebels appearances is that she was actually really boring there? Every Jedi that wasn’t Obi-Wan or Anakin essentially had the same personality as one another in TCW, and Ahsoka seemed to become that to Ezra. Your basic older mentor figure. Which as an Ahsoka fan was disappointing. I get that she was supposed to have matured, but they really didn’t do anything with her “I’m no Jedi” thing. She was a Jedi in every way, and they couldn’t even come up with a pedantic reason why she wasn’t. She just wasn’t, I guess.

I wish they had come up with a more interesting personality and arc for adult Ahsoka, is all. The most interesting stuff to come out of what they did do, was her dealing with the fallout of Anakin’s turn - but that pretty much writes itself anyway. And they still did the bare minimum: Ahsoka is sad, Ahsoka has regrets. Even Eckstein’s performance was pointedly less expressive and more matronly.

Author
Time

If Ahsoka’s first appearance is in Revenge of the Sith along with Rex, Bo-Katan, and the other characters that appear in the Siege of Mandalore as well as the siege of Mandalore arc is in Revenge of the Sith, Rosario portrays Ahsoka.

Author
Time

NFBisms said:

A big disappointment I realize I had with her Rebels appearances is that she was actually really boring there?

Snips is not snippy anymore ?

Han: Hey Lando! You kept your promise, right? Not a scratch?
Lando: Well, what’s left of her isn’t scratched. All the scratched parts got knocked off along the way.
Han (exasperated): Knocked off?!

Author
Time
 (Edited)

I don’t know, it’s not even that, although that is noticeable.

To me, the character of Ahsoka in TCW grappled with a lot of different themes and developed through them genuinely pretty interestingly: The gradual breakdown of an upbringing she romanticized, learning to roll with those punches, and adapt her teachings in increasingly less black and white scenarios, eventually leading to a disillusionment of the larger system, and her trying to rediscover trust in its base ideologies… She went through a lot, and grew from it.

She was Anakin Skywalker’s padawan, and his influence - good and bad - reflected in her choices. But she was still her own person, overcoming some of his failures and falling short of some of his successes. She was three dimensional and endearing; young but quickly maturing.

Put her through betrayal and a genocide of everyone she’d ever known, forced to hide from an Empire, and you’d think there would be a lot to unpack for a complex character like her. But Rebels just treated her as fanservice and a plot device. She shows up as a moment of relief: “Look! It’s that character you love!” and serves as a reassuring presence to the audience proxy of Ezra from time to time. She’s a wise and matronly mentor. Obviously all that hardship and strife just made her a stronger and better person. That’s such a boring cop-out catch-up. And now she’s just there. Sad about Vader, but still.

Whether or not she was snippy in Rebels, she was too perfect, so to speak. I would have wanted more from her disavowment of the Jedi, not just the vague “something else” that was never elaborated on. And surely that lack of commitment to those philosophies would have opened her up more to the grief she must feel for what she’s lost. Especially in light of the complicated relationship she had to it anyway. Something more along the lines of where Kanan was.

My hopes or headcanon for her going forward, is that they’ll finally lean into the elements that made Ahsoka interesting. That she only came off as boring in Rebels because we were tied to a young Ezra’s POV. And maybe that’s true, if she is showing up only halfway through season 2 of The Mandalorian. She’s not a Jedi, maybe they’ll finally elaborate.

And further into hopes for the larger canon, I’m a fan of the idea that she maybe doesn’t help Luke build the New Jedi Order. I would honestly like if they cast her in an antagonistic role at some point. Not as a villain villain, but someone opposed to rebuilding the Jedi in the way it was. And that could tie into TLJ, where Luke is disillusioned himself.

Author
Time

sade1212 said:
the only Jedi with sufficient foresight to leave the Order

Others left too, most notably Count Dooku.

sade1212 said:
has held her own against Grievous, Maul, Vader and Sidious

I don’t remember her fighting Sidious.

sade1212 said:
survived the entire Original Trilogy,

Lots of people did.

Author
Time

NFBisms said:

I would honestly like if they cast her in an antagonistic role at some point. Not as a villain villain, but someone opposed to rebuilding the Jedi in the way it was. And that could tie into TLJ, where Luke is disillusioned himself.

This is a great idea! I don’t want to get my hopes up but it would be nice if they did this.

I was thinking about this issue the other day. Ahsoka was ‘no Jedi’ in the sense that although she was a force wielder, she wasn’t part of the Jedi Order. At this point in the timeline, that order and their dogma are long gone… so I wonder where she stands now. Having Din Djarin find her only for her to say, “well, TECHNICALLY I’m not a Jedi…” feels a little silly, because it is a bit of a technicality and an invalid one for the above reason. A new Jedi Order is starting, and she’ll either partake in forming it or she won’t.

Also I like Rebels Ahsoka because she really is mostly a guest appearance. She comes across as much more mature, and even more compassionate, than she was in The Clone Wars - and because of her limited appearance, guilt over leaving the Jedi Order and contributing to Anakin’s fall was all I feel they could have touched on. A lot of people were afraid that pre-existing characters like Ahsoka would take away the spotlight from the Mandalorian, and I feel that if the Rebels creative team had explored Ahsoka’s mindset any more than they did, season 2 would have turned into the Ahsoka Tano Show.

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Rodney-2187 said:
Others left too, most notably Count Dooku.

While this is true, he leaves it over a decade before Order 66, and then goes on to become a Sith, whereas Ahsoka leaves within a year of the end and for more “correct” reasons. The audience is on Ahsoka’s side but not Dooku’s.

Rodney-2187 said:
I don’t remember her fighting Sidious.

In Rebels. There’s no clash of sabers but she holds him out of the WBW for a few moments.

Rodney-2187 said:
Lots of people did.

Yes, but not many Jedi did (despite what Mace Windu may insist, Ahsoka doesn’t quite count as an ordinary civilian). We’re led to believe in the OT that Luke is literally the Last Jedi - the fact that Ahsoka has rejected the actual Jedi Order by that point so she doesn’t count is a very smart bit of weaving between the lines of the pre-existing text. “Luke, when gone I am, last of the Jedi will you be. Your… father’s apprentice is still alive, but count not, does she, because white her lightsabers are, so bother to mention her ever, I will not.”

“No… there is another.”
“Oh, Ahsoka? Yeah I suppose I probably could make a ghostly appearance to her and try to get her back on side -”
"No, Obi-Wan! A foolish idea, that is. I mean Leia - who, convincing Luke to let die, we were, just a moment ago… "

Obviously I slightly exaggerated Ahsoka’s unlikely list of accomplishments for my previous post, because it was essentially just a set-up for the punchline that I love seeing her character despite knowing she’s overused. NFB makes some great points on how Ahsoka could be made more interesting in the post-OT era - I can only imagine the YouTube meltdown about how dIsNeY rUiNeD aHsOkA if they did place her at odds with Luke Skywalker, though.

Author
Time

NFBisms said:

A big disappointment I realize I had with her Rebels appearances is that she was actually really boring there? Every Jedi that wasn’t Obi-Wan or Anakin essentially had the same personality as one another in TCW, and Ahsoka seemed to become that to Ezra. Your basic older mentor figure. Which as an Ahsoka fan was disappointing. I get that she was supposed to have matured, but they really didn’t do anything with her “I’m no Jedi” thing. She was a Jedi in every way, and they couldn’t even come up with a pedantic reason why she wasn’t. She just wasn’t, I guess.

I wish they had come up with a more interesting personality and arc for adult Ahsoka, is all. The most interesting stuff to come out of what they did do, was her dealing with the fallout of Anakin’s turn - but that pretty much writes itself anyway. And they still did the bare minimum: Ahsoka is sad, Ahsoka has regrets. Even Eckstein’s performance was pointedly less expressive and more matronly.

The problem with Rebels is that the new original characters are simply not all that good or interesting. If they put Ahsoka upfront and fleshed her out a bit more, she would easily steal the whole show. This is probably why Vader and Tarkin are missing from seasons 3 and 4.

Author
Time

Who’s betting that Ahsoka will appear in the Kenobi show ?!

Han: Hey Lando! You kept your promise, right? Not a scratch?
Lando: Well, what’s left of her isn’t scratched. All the scratched parts got knocked off along the way.
Han (exasperated): Knocked off?!

Author
Time

Woohoo!

Sorry, couldn’t resist. Anyone have any thoughts on whether Chapter 13 takes place before or after the Star Wars Rebels epilogue? I always assumed it was after, but seeing as Sabine wasn’t in the episode - it’s possible that Ahsoka now uses the information she’s presumably gathered about Thrawn to finally begin her search. Alternatively, the search has proved difficult and Corvus is just one stop on a long quest.

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

Author
Time

Shouldn’t the prosthetics designers made her Lekkus and Montrals the same length as Rebels?

Author
Time

SandMTV said:

Shouldn’t the prosthetics designers made her Lekkus and Montrals the same length as Rebels?

I’m bothered about that a lot, because I think it’s the only thing stopping her look from being perfect. But I think Lucasfilm has confirmed that they were shortened for practicality - Rosario has to do backflips etc in this episode, and backflips are better performed without long rubbery tentacle things bouncing off your face. I wonder if there was anything to be said for having two different headpieces, one with the correct Rebels head-tail length for non-action scenes, one with the head-tails cut off at a point for them to be digitally added later? But if the prosthetics dept. tried to have them longer and it just didn’t work, I’ll be at peace with it.

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

Author
Time

I wonder how long Rosario has to turn into Ahsoka… (The hair andmake-up, prosthetics, and wardrobe).

Author
Time

SandMTV said:

I wonder how long Rosario has to turn into Ahsoka… (The hair andmake-up, prosthetics, and wardrobe).

I’m sure interviews will be coming soon, Katee Sackhoff had one with Entertainment Weekly very shortly after her episode.

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

Author
Time

I don’t mind the shorter montrals. Ahsoka’s TCW look is most iconic, and they always looked a bit over the top to me in Rebels. I know that Shaak Ti’s were huge, but some size variance amongst Togruta hardly breaks my suspension of disbelief. I was really impressed by the makeup and costume design being so faithful otherwise.

Author
Time

SandMTV said:

I wonder how long Rosario has to turn into Ahsoka… (The hair andmake-up, prosthetics, and wardrobe).

It doesn’t appear overly complicated to me : I don’t think there is any prosthetics to change her facial features, so it’s basically just makeup, blue contact lenses, and the head tails are just a hat !

Han: Hey Lando! You kept your promise, right? Not a scratch?
Lando: Well, what’s left of her isn’t scratched. All the scratched parts got knocked off along the way.
Han (exasperated): Knocked off?!

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Character Poster
There’s a clone helmet graffiti and her fulcrum symbol in the back.

Reckon she’ll be back for the season finale, like how some characters came back together at the end in Mando Season 1? Or is her backdoor pilot done and awaiting the Rebels sequel series to be announced?

Author
Time

sade1212 said:

There’s a clone helmet graffiti and her fulcrum symbol in the back.

I didn’t notice that at first, well spotted! Rosario Ahsoka looks great here, but then all the character posters have been very good. Time to update my phone wallpaper.

Reckon she’ll be back for the season finale, like how some characters came back together at the end in Mando Season 1? Or is her backdoor pilot done and awaiting the Rebels sequel series to be announced?

I always assumed she’d be a one-episode guest appearance, but Rosario Dawson recently posted an Instagram story with a photo of her and Simon Cassianides from another film premiere and said it was great to work with him again. It might not mean anything, but then again it might… we could be seeing another teamup of Ahsoka and Bo Katan in the retaking of Mandalore, you never know.

I’m not sure if I want to see Ahsoka again in this season or not. One part of me wants to see her back in animation again, or maybe in live-action with Rebels-accurate head tails, but another part of me feels that Chapter 13 was more small-scale than I was expecting and she should have another appearance in the show.

“Remember, the Force will be with you. Always.”

Author
Time

I believe Ahsoka is done for this season but she’ll eventually appear later as a guest star. Or feature her in any of the spin-off live action shows that have been rumored. Maybe the Rebels sequel isn’t animated after all?

Now Bo-Katan I can see her coming back for the Season 2 finale or whenever the storyline catches up with Moff Gideon.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Knight of Kalee said:

I believe Ahsoka is done for this season but she’ll eventually appear later as a guest star. Or feature her in any of the spin-off live action shows that have been rumored.

Of course she will, she apparently needs to be shoehorned into everything.

I like the character as much as the next person but I’m getting pretty tired of her needing to be part of literally every possible Star Wars show going forward. People criticised Lucas for making the universe feel smaller by connecting 3PO and Anakin, and now we have Miss Omnipresent Being floating around the galaxy interacting with every storyline we see. It gets to a point where the character needs to be given an actual ending because she’s just starting to feel like Filoni’s embodied ego.

Author
Time

According to the New EU, there’s this weird line of Jedi that all realized the Jedi Order was super bad. Most of them end up leaving, through good or bad circumstances. A lot of the fandom is of the opinion that these guys are super based and the reason they’re the most important Jedi is because they recognized the Jedi were super evil and stuff. Which is really weird if you think about that idea even in the context of the PT, let alone the OT.

Yoda > Dooku > Qui-Gon > Obi-Wan > Anakin > Ahsoka, although maybe Yoda doesn’t count since he doesn’t fit as well. So Dooku > Qui-Gon > Obi-Wan > Anakin > Ahsoka?

The only ones who didn’t leave were Yoda and Obi-Wan, but even Obi-Wan was super critical of the Jedi according to the New EU.

I’m probably not expressing this idea very well

Death of the Author

Author
Time

Qui-Gon didn’t actually leave, though. He just treaded the fine line between following the Code and listening to the actual will of the Force.

Though yeah, the portrayal of the Jedi in the prequels has given place to this revisionist, critical approach to a overtly dogmatic Order. Personally I’m fine with it, it makes sense how Palpatine preyed on the Order’s weakness to wipe them out, and I liked to see this referenced in The Last Jedi. The perceived hipocrisy of the Order also feels like a more reasonable reason for Anakin’s turn to the dark side (since it made Ahsoka leave, among other things). Honestly I would have liked to see this pay off with a reformation of the Jedi ideology in the sequels
Maybe influenced by the teachings in Luke’s ancient texts, Rey could have gone on to found a new kind of order to correct the wrongs of the old one after Luke failed to do so. Instead the situation was left fairly ambiguous and there’s no sort of assurance that another Jedi revival (or a third Republic, for that matter) won’t repeat their past mistakes.