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Your first reaction to Hayden is ROTJ — Page 4

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Gaffer Tape said:

Yeah, they did use some weird footage of Hayden. I mean, there's the embarrassed grin and then looking down at his shoes, and then off in the opposite direction. Yeah, I really feel like he's a part of this scene. Whereas, originally, Sebastian shared a look with Obi-Wan, which does the heart good, and then he beams proudly at his son. No comparison.

I think if you look at a split screen image, that really shows how there is no comparison. Hayden looks down at the fricken ground. Meanwhile Sebastian is looking right at Obi Wan who is smiling right back. The visual imagery of the original scene looks so much better, by any objective standard of filmmaking principles. I didn't realize how bad it was until I recently saw a split screen image on youtube that has since been taken down. Luckily I took a screencast.

I already posted what my first reaction was so I'll share what my current feeling is now.

http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/2212/haydenvssebastianrlm.jpg[/IMG]

What do you guys think?

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To be honest, both of the versions aren't perfect, but overall I prefer Sebastian Shaw.  However, Shaw is just some random old dude who we've never seen before (don't tell me about how we saw him as Vader in the unmasking, I couldn't tell who the hell that was), and Shaw looks nothing like Anakin (who's supposed to look about 20 years younger).  

But Hayden's is also bad, because when he's supposed to look at Obi Wan, he looks at his feet.  (?)  The ideal scene to me would be Hayden with an "older" haircut (not some pretty boy haircut), and actually LOOK at Obi Wan while actually being part of the scene. 

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mfastx said:

The ideal scene to me would be Hayden with an "older" haircut (not some pretty boy haircut), and actually LOOK at Obi Wan while actually being part of the scene. 

The ideal scene would be to restore the film to its original 1983 form.  Changing classic movies at all is just wrong.

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mfastx said:

However, Shaw is just some random old dude who we've never seen before (don't tell me about how we saw him as Vader in the unmasking, I couldn't tell who the hell that was)

In that case, he's not 'some random old dude who we've never seen before', but 'some random old dude YOU'VE never seen'.

Shaw looks nothing like Anakin (who's supposed to look about 20 years younger). 

The prequel trilogy version of Anakin, you mean.

“I’m in a dark theater. The movie starts, and I start to see things that I recognize.” - James Cameron on Terminator Genisys

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 (Edited)

Judge said:

In that case, he's not 'some random old dude who we've never seen before', but 'some random old dude YOU'VE never seen'.

 

The prequel trilogy version of Anakin, you mean.

 No, I was talking about before that point in time in the movie.  Before the end scene, the first time you watched ROTJ, are you telling me you know exactly who was gonna be there? When I said "we've never seen," I meant a first time viewer of the saga as a whole. 

And yes, I mean the PT trilogy of Anakin, I'm assuming you dislike the PT and think it is irrevalent, so I respect your opinion, and I won't discuss this topic anymore, because it seems that neither of our opinions will change anytime soon.  :)

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Every time I see this thread title pop up, it brings warm feelings to my heart.

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Maybe I'm not entirely opposed to seeing Hayden there, but one, it just doesn't make any sense at all to me.  Secondly, it looks like Lucas just took a random outtake of Hayden and spliced it into the shot.  It comes off as a half-assed attempt.  If it was done with some care and real thought behind it, the end result might be more acceptable.

-NJM

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Nicholas J. Michalak said:

Maybe I'm not entirely opposed to seeing Hayden there, but one, it just doesn't make any sense at all to me.  Secondly, it looks like Lucas just took a random outtake of Hayden and spliced it into the shot.  It comes off as a half-assed attempt.  If it was done with some care and real thought behind it, the end result might be more acceptable.

-NJM

 Exactly.  If you look closely, you will notice that the only thing replaced is Shaw's head.  His body is still there, just with Hayden's head on top of it.  THAT is half-assed. 

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mfastx said:

Shaw looks nothing like Anakin (who's supposed to look about 20 years younger).  

Uh...ok, even if you go the "replace Shaw with Hayden" route, you still run into the same problem. Now, Anakin looks like he did in Ep. 3, so rather than being twenty years too old, he's twenty years too young. Not exactly an improvement.

So unless you're going to suggest replacing Alec with Ewan, this observation won't work as a supporting argument for the Shaw replacement...

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Akwat Kbrana said:

Uh...ok, even if you go the "replace Shaw with Hayden" route, you still run into the same problem. Now, Anakin looks like he did in Ep. 3, so rather than being twenty years too old, he's twenty years too young. Not exactly an improvement.

So unless you're going to suggest replacing Alec with Ewan, this observation won't work as a supporting argument for the Shaw replacement...

 If you read my other post I believe I mentioned that GL should replace the current Hayden with a Hayden that looks older (meaning a different haircut, etc.) to try to match the age he is (which should be about 40-something). 

Most 40 year olds still look sort of young, all he needs is an "older" haircut (not a pretty boy haricut LOL), and maybe some makeup to make him look older, but he still shouldn't look as old as Sebastian Shaw. 

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I don't care for Hayden at the end of ROTJ, but the Victory Celebration music is SOOO much better than the original.  It's the only track of all 6 Star Wars soundtracks that I repeatedly listen to over and over.

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My first reaction was the same as when i read it as a rumor, wtf.  The same thing with rumored aliens and area 51 in indy 4.  Wish that was wrong and never happened.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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I first saw Hayden superimposed over shaw during an airing of ROTJ on spikeTV.  I wanted to kick in the screen and went through 5 minutes of expletives directed at Luca$.  I hated the SE's, but these further changes just tore me apart.  I still havent seen the latest greedo vs han change where lucas has them shooting about the same time instead of greedo shooting 1st like the SE's. And I really dont want to.  Lucas even wore a "han shot 1st" t-shirt around the set of indiana jones KOTCS.  And I hate how lucas is repetitively letting SpikeTV air these SE 2.0 abominations!  Its like he's trying to get people to forget the OOT by shoving this garbage trilogy down our throats!

"There's no cluster of midiclorians that controls my destiny!" -Han Solo, from a future revision of ANH

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Never saw it.

Heard about it.

Was aghast.

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Hoth-Nudist said:

I first saw Hayden superimposed over shaw during an airing of ROTJ on spikeTV.  I wanted to kick in the screen and went through 5 minutes of expletives directed at Luca$.  I hated the SE's, but these further changes just tore me apart.  I still havent seen the latest greedo vs han change where lucas has them shooting about the same time instead of greedo shooting 1st like the SE's. And I really dont want to.  Lucas even wore a "han shot 1st" t-shirt around the set of indiana jones KOTCS.  And I hate how lucas is repetitively letting SpikeTV air these SE 2.0 abominations!  Its like he's trying to get people to forget the OOT by shoving this garbage trilogy down our throats!

It is even funnier when you realize hayden was only 2 when jedi was released in 1983,lol.  And he was always intended to play that part, Lucas is either trying to pull the wool over our eyes, or a huge joker.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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I've deliberately not read the other responses, only read the opening post (well, that's all I need to reply to, right?) simply because I'm sure there's nothing new being said amongst the OT fans.  Why am I here, then?  Well, I was five when Star Wars came out, which puts me amongst the first generation of fans, and our voice is the one that needs to be heard first.  I will say, before I go, that I am often out of synch with the OT fans, but viva la difference say I, and ultimately we're all Star Wars fans and we are all equally passionate about these films.

Sebastian Shaw was a Shakespearean actor and I loved his involvement in ROTJ.  Who would have thought that beneath that mask was the kindly face of an old man?  And I loved the little look he exchanged with Obi-Wan when he re-appeared in spirit form at the end of the film.  However, as someone who followed the prequels and didn't deny their existence (as some OT fans prefer to) I accept that the face of Anakin is Hayden's.  Anakin views himself as the person who died in his twenties, not his forties.  The spirit is not a literal representation of a person when they die - otherwise, that ghost would have no legs and one arm - so it's perfectly acceptable that Anakin return in this way. 

So, in answer to the question "what was my response", I was perfectly fine and understood the reason for the change in terms of tying in with the prequels and in terms of believability in the concept of the story. 

I hope that this view, although unpopular amongst some - many? - of the forum members doesn't cause us to fall out in a big way.

That's some bad hat, Harry
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Disgust. The same reaction to every change to the originals.

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mfastx said:

Judge said:

In that case, he's not 'some random old dude who we've never seen before', but 'some random old dude YOU'VE never seen'.

 

The prequel trilogy version of Anakin, you mean.

 No, I was talking about before that point in time in the movie.  Before the end scene, the first time you watched ROTJ, are you telling me you know exactly who was gonna be there? When I said "we've never seen," I meant a first time viewer of the saga as a whole. 

And yes, I mean the PT trilogy of Anakin, I'm assuming you dislike the PT and think it is irrevalent, so I respect your opinion, and I won't discuss this topic anymore, because it seems that neither of our opinions will change anytime soon.  :)

1) One could tell it was the same guy, yes. At the very least, one could readily believe that. Not so much with Hayden, no matter with what kind od haircut.

2) Then you're dumb - it's an older movie, and he's not SUPPOSED to look like the one from the newer one, no matter how "itrelevant" you consider the PT. The new Anakin looks nothing like Shaw, as well, so there's another reason to have cast a different actor for the PT. And the Vader without mask still looks like Shaw, not Hayden. Vayder ain't Hayden.

This is STUPID.

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Every time this thread gets bumped, I LOL at the title.

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While I am not a fan of this change and agree that HC lookin down is no improvement, I have to say that the original scene isn' t the bee's knees either. But to me it's a change that I can live with, there is a certain logic to it (from a certain point of view), and it does not interrupt the flow, unlike the Jabba scene in ANH or Jedi Rocks.

In my opinion, about 98 per cent of the choices for the SEs are okay and perfectly agreeable, it's the last 2 per cent that stick out like a sore thumb and spoil the experience.

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Rage.  Pure, undiluted fanboy rage.

That was not the Anakin that returned from the Dark Side.

Since they're like poetry, what with the rhyming and all, I find that I only need to watch three out of the six films.

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When I saw the screencap on AintItCoolNews, it did not occur to me that it was anything other than a bad joke. I paid it no mind at all.

Initiating self-destruct countdown…

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My first reaction to seeing this when watching Return of the Jedi in the 2004 SE DVD box set was shock, just couldn't believe Lucas did that, followed immediately by disgust and anger. Just totally unacceptable. It was the final straw, there are so many changes in the 2004 even-more-SE version that I intensely dislike, but this... grr...

It made it an even easier decision that I didn't plan on watching the 2004 set again. Just can't stand it, the 1997 SE is bad enough in a few places, but the 2004 set is much worse with all these crazy changes. A shame, too, because the overall picture quality is so nice that it was hard to have to give that up. But to this day I still haven't watched the 2004 set again.

The Star Wars trilogy. There can be only one.

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Monolithium said:

Rage.  Pure, undiluted fanboy rage.

This. I had that same reaction. I have not watched that version since that scene.

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