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Yoda: CGI vs Puppet — Page 4

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Baronlando said:

Well, doesn't matter how you take it, the point was that when the FX guys, not me, are aiming to make it look photoreal they don't mean that. I wasn't being super-literal with the midget thing, just trying to illustrate that THEIR (the fx people) goal was to make it look like something that was always there.

Always there as a character. Not an object.

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No, always there as both a character and an object.

I have nothing against the use of CGI where there's no other way to do something that needs to be done but IMO a model or a really good animatronic puppet or make-up will always look more "real" than CGI, especially in close-up. Even now, I watched Avatar on Blu-Ray the other day and it does look like an animated film for the most part, especially in 2D.

One other recent example is the Rise of the Planet of the Apes; while I thought the film itself was great, the monkeys looked incredibly fake. Now take a look at Tim Burton's PotA remake, they used animatronics and makeup and the monkeys look absolutely real.

Both technologies have their limitations, so it is usually a combination of both that yields the best results (like eg. in Jurassic Park).

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    IF YOU DON’T FIND WHAT YOU’RE LOOKING FOR THERE, TRY ASKING IN THE APPROPRIATE THREADS - MOST REGULAR POSTERS KNOW ALL THE ANSWERS AND SOMEONE WILL LIKELY BE ABLE TO HELP YOU.
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 (Edited)

FIRST VIEW: my new animatronic Yoda, restored from original molds’:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rObexmlEa0 - by Nick Maley
 

The blurb…

‘At last I can show what I have been working on in my spare hours this last 2 years. Meticulously assembled, this is the Yoda that you saw in clay form a year ago. Devised by compositing original relics, it is now fabricated and mechanized with a newly designed hand control allowing it to be operated by one puppeteer instead of the usual 3. It is built to take to conventions and charity events. There will be a more in depth video about it coming soon, but this is a first taste to wet your appetite. Yoda lives, once again.’

 

It is well worth checking out Nick Maley’s youtube channel - https://www.youtube.com/user/cinesecrets/videos - some really insightful and informative videos on there.
 

His website, facebook, & twitter too.

 

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

I find that answer vague and unconvincing. Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves?
Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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Wow, that’s so cool! To me, it looks a lot more like the ESB Yoda than the puppet in TLJ.

  • www.facebook.com/despecialized
  • IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE DESPECIALIZED EDITIONS, PLEASE READ THE FIRST POSTS OF THESE THREADS, WHICH HAVE UP-TO-DATE INFORMATION: SW, ESB, ROTJ, 97SE RE-ED
    IF YOU DON’T FIND WHAT YOU’RE LOOKING FOR THERE, TRY ASKING IN THE APPROPRIATE THREADS - MOST REGULAR POSTERS KNOW ALL THE ANSWERS AND SOMEONE WILL LIKELY BE ABLE TO HELP YOU.
    IF I GET A PM WITH A QUESTION, WHICH COULD HAVE BEEN ANSWERED THROUGH THESE MEANS, IT WILL BE IGNORED. SORRY BUT I AM NOT THE LOCAL INFO BOOTH. THANK YOU.
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That looks amazing! Just the Yoda I remember.

Still can’t figure out why Yoda looks off in TLJ, don’t know how they screwed that up.

I still eagerly wish to see what OT yoda would look like in the PT, or PT yoda look like in the OT. I just wish we could have a consistent yoda.

JEDIT: Someone should try and deepfake OT Yoda onto PT yoda or vise versa. That would be interesting.

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I think the problem with TLJ Yoda was a combination of weird lighting, different latex/rubber material and they changed the interior puppetry mechanics.

He looks okay under normal lighting:

But his face gets puffy when he’s being actively puppeted:

Help finish ROTJ: Revisited!

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Maybe that’s how he looked in his 820’s.

PM me for links to my edits; apparently, some feel shy about this.

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Then again…

A side by side:

There’s definitely more going on here. TLJ almost looks like what you’d get if you tried to convert the animated Clone Wars Yoda back into a puppet.

Help finish ROTJ: Revisited!

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How is it a big budgeted film can’t get Yoda spot on but a dedicated fan can?

Also, TLJ Yoda needs a fun nickname like Creepy Puppet Yoda™ has.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Tobar said:

Then again…

A side by side:

There’s definitely more going on here. TLJ almost looks like what you’d get if you tried to convert the animated Clone Wars Yoda back into a puppet.

Viewed side by side TLJ Yoda almost looks older.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Could one deepfake one puppet onto another?

PM me for links to my edits; apparently, some feel shy about this.

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The skin is too dark and there’s slight change to the eyelids, nose and lower mouth. Which is why it looks best when lit by the fire and shown from a low angle.

Yub Nub for life

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I remember thinking TLJ’s Yoda looked like Yoda himself had a Yoda puppet on his arm.

PM me for links to my edits; apparently, some feel shy about this.

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TLJ Yoda’s eyes are also weirdly shiny with hard bright reflections, like they’re made from marbles, rather than the softer, more muted reflections of organic human eyes, which the ESB puppet captured better.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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Wouldn’t a comparison to ROTJ Yoda be correct?

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Hal 9000 said:

Could one deepfake one puppet onto another?

I’m not sure if deepfake software works on non-human faces, I don’t think so (but if it does, it could be a good solution). But something I’ve been thinking about trying (other than just manually animating and overlaying an improved face in After Effects) is using the free EbSynth software https://ebsynth.com/ which can replace the texture of a moving shot using keyframes as a guide. So what you would do is to create a few keyframes in Photoshop where Yoda looks how you want him to look, and then the software will try to make the rest of the frames match that look. It might work.

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Very interesting. Similar idea of software trying to work on the footage, but you craft the references directly onto the footage.

PM me for links to my edits; apparently, some feel shy about this.