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Yeah, its us OLD people George- thanks! — Page 2

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"Because comparing his saying "My two trilogies seem to appeal to two different fanbases" to someone who's ON TRIAL FOR MOLESTING CHILDREN seems pretty goddamned far-fetched to me. As a matter of fact, it doesn't even seem to be a comparison."

Of course it doesn't - because you've turned his comparison into something it never was. In no way was child molestation part of the comparison - it was his emotional troubles. You know...the reason why he's changing his skin color from black to white, or having babies with white women. We are talking about the mindset, not specific acts. Let's keep some perspective on this, okay?

"The two trilogies seem to have two completely different audiences." -- George Lucas
"I never leave my bed and have my blood completely replaced with virgin mormon blood every other week, and I hate niggers." -- Howard Hughes.

Yet JOE is the psychotic one."


BTW, in case you didn't notice, Joe didn't mention anything in regards to Lucas' statement. He didn't mention his own age, nor his opinion about one trilogy or the other. In point of fact, he was completely off-topic, and yet here you are, berating us for our responses to him. And as for being off-topc, you bring up more strained comparisons...are you deliberately trying to miss the point? The point revolved around Hughe's reclusivness, as well as his drive to achieve huge but questionable goals, like the Spruce Goose. This has nothing to do with blood or blacks.

I don't know why you feel this need to completely misrepresent the actual discussion, but it's not helping your stance at all.

"It's like you guys KNOW you've gone flying off the deep end, you just don't care."

The same could be said for Lucas. In fact, the same could be said for your post - perhaps even more so.

"Is there anything particularly WRONG with his GENERAL characterization of the two fanbases these trilogies seem to have? Because from where I'm sitting--I don't see it. Yes, it's a generality, which means there will be exceptions, and sometimes a fair amount of them, but jesus--I don't think his analogy is that far-fetched."

And Heaven forbid we should disagree with you.

"I could make this entire thread swallow their own tongues in about 5 minutes with the moronic self-serving histrionics you guys spew daily, but I'm nice and I save my efforts for when you guys go REALLY over the top and need to be spanked for it."

Spank away, for all the good it will do you. We'll still be here. I can't imagine you and Joe feel this need to try to change other people's minds, much less "spank" them for a difference of opinion, but this board exists for a reason, and it's a waste of your time to think you are going to make any kind of difference here, especially with the caliber of your above responses.
MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They're certainly beyond any repair you're capable of making.


MeBeJedi: You aren't one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can't say I find that very disappointing.


JediRandy: I won't suck as much as a fan edit.
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Bizzle, I personally take most of the comments here with a grain of salt. I don't think they really mean GL is like Howard Hughs or Jackson, it's just a way of colorizing the point. Green Capt didn't say he was like MJ, merely that he's going off te deep end like him. And that's his opinion.

Joe on the other hand is a troll that is only here to act superior than us and call us childish names. If he actually contributed to the forum I could let it slide, but he doesn't from what I've seen. We're merely playthings to him. He wait's for an easily twistable comment and attacks. I really don't see why you'd defend him. All forums have people like them.

I seriously don't get why people hang around boards they don't agree with just to say, "you guys are all nuts". If they think that way, why are they here? It's not like we hang around the TF.N boards telling everyone how much the SE sucks or that they're insane for thinking otherwise.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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*sigh*

Quite an emotional stir here. Glad I can raise some dust.

Of course I didn't mean to characterize GL as a child molester. That's a ridiculous assumption. I will admit that perhaps the timing of that comment was off a bit with the Jackson trial, but I don't see that anyone who has commented took it that way Bizzle. Klingon_Jedi is spot on with his comments. But fame and extreme amounts of money can work wicked ways on people, even the most innocent and creative. And I find it hard to believe that anyone who has worked and lived in conditions similar to Lucas, Jackson, Hughes, Bill Gates, etc etc etc can really have a firm grasp on what us- the common folk (take that as you will)- feel and want in life. No one here is starting a jihad against GL; instead we debate and joke and speculate and ramble as any group of friends who share similar interests would. We express opinions. Very few people here express their opinions in a manner that pretends to be *fact* or even superior to other's opinions. But occasionally one pops in. Such is life. But how can anyone respect the opinion of someone whose stance is "you guys are dickheads because you express opinions"? I find it hard to.

One thing I like about the OT.Com forums is that most of the comments seem to be from educated, worldy individuals who love the subjects that they talk about. Even if some (myself included) like to poke fun at things and occasionally run rampant with analogies. There are plenty of websites where one can read endless posts of 'this sucks', 'that sucks', 'you suck', 'he/she/it sucks' if that's what you enjoy reading. I personally don't. So I'll stick around and I'd wager others will too. At least Bizzle's posts are expressed like an opinion- I can respect that.
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MeBe: On ignore, being as all your debates boil down to you ham-handedly trying to turn everyone's words around in a tedious and boring line-by-line debate style that's older than your grandparents bacon strips. At least the Capt knows how to formulate a response worth a crap without having to rely on 30 different quotes to frame your mindless variations on "I know you are but what am I." Having someone like you insult my intelligence is like being kicked in the shins by a mosquito.

Capt: At least you attempted to explain your outlandish statement, and that's cool, but it still doesn't really hold up--because it wasn't the MONEY that made Michael loopy. He was already loopy. If Michael Jackson had never been famous he'd STILL be a white girl who touches boys, only he'd be buried on page 6 of the Gary Indiana Times instead of on trial.

The reason your comparison breaks down is that the "falling over the edge" you're using as experiences are things that are ACTUALLY CRAZY. Howard Hughes was mentally ill. Michael Jackson is very troubled. They've done things that are pretty abhorrent. George Lucas has tinkered with his movies and gave a theory as to why and how there appears to be two different fanbases for this saga. The comparison fails there. He's done nothing out of the ordinary anywhere NEAR the levels of Jackson or Hughes. Him making movies you don't like is not a indication of his mental health, and it's pretty specious to even go there with that, much less take it to the level where he's brain-addled and seriously damaged in ways that Hughes and Jackson were BEFORE they got famous. THAT is why the comparison looks like slobbering overreaction. I mean--I don't understand why I'm being told to get some perspective and stop reacting poorly when all I'm doing is trying to shine a light on how absurd these comparisons are and how faulty they are at the root.

I can understand a certain level of frustration after not getting what you want. that's perfectly understandable. But to not only make comparisons like this, but to get angry at people who poke holes in them? C'mon. You're setting up the fact that he's done nothing but make kids movies and then set up some sort of CLASS STRUGGLE scenario to support it. And I don't even really see how that applies to the subject of this THREAD even. Lucas offers up a pretty decent analogy as to WHY there appears to be two fanbases for his movies. Somehow, between there and here, we've gone from that to comparisons to crazy people and the suggestion that because Lucas is rich, he's lost touch with 'The common man.' Suddenly we've gone from two fanbases to the communist manifesto.

And I understand that you'd get pissed that I shine a light on how ludicrous that is, how fanatically navel-gazing and mental masturbation the trip from the beginning of this thread to your last post has been, but that doesn't mean I'm invalidating your existence or trying to invalidate your opinions because you're dickheads or whatever.
The Best Show You've Never Heard
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Bizzle, my points still stand, regardless of your opinion of how I express them, and unwillingness to respond. I prefer to address specific points in order. You don't like it? Tough, but I notice your subsequent post was much better argued as a result.

"C'mon. You're setting up the fact that he's done nothing but make kids movies and then set up some sort of CLASS STRUGGLE scenario to support it. "

I'll point out again that Lucas created the "class struggle" in his statement, and we are responding to it. As to "setting up facts", how about your attempts to bring in child molestation and racism in the arguments in this thread? Notice any similarities there?

"I mean--I don't understand why I'm being told to get some perspective and stop reacting poorly when all I'm doing is trying to shine a light on how absurd these comparisons are and how faulty they are at the root."

By bringing up even worse comparisons such as child molestation and swapping blood? I take it the misrepresentation was on purpose then?
MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They're certainly beyond any repair you're capable of making.


MeBeJedi: You aren't one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can't say I find that very disappointing.


JediRandy: I won't suck as much as a fan edit.
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If you think that's bad, type "Emperor Jar-Jar" into the Google search engine and see what you get.

Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side

Emperor Jar-Jar
“Back when we made Star Wars, we just couldn’t make Palpatine as evil as we intended. Now, thanks to the miracles of technology, it is finally possible. Finally, I’ve created the movies that I originally imagined.” -George Lucas on the 2007 Extra Extra Special HD-DVD Edition

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Originally posted by: Trooperman
If you think that's bad, type "Emperor Jar-Jar" into the Google search engine and see what you get.


**shudders** I'll try it when I get home and have a drink in my hand... lol
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"type "Emperor Jar-Jar" into the Google search engine"

LOL...I typed it into Yahoo, but I see what you mean. Looks like Bizzle's got his work cut out for him
MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They're certainly beyond any repair you're capable of making.


MeBeJedi: You aren't one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can't say I find that very disappointing.


JediRandy: I won't suck as much as a fan edit.
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I'm so tired of George Lucas and his "middle finger" attitude towards the "older" fans. If he wants them to go away, all he has to do is release the unmolested OT on DVD. Plain and simple. I've always had the position that Lucas is free to do what he wants, as long as he gives fans the choice of which versions they want to see. He's just being a stubborn ass.

To quote LucasFilm's Jim Ward, "This is not a democracy."

The "older" fans made him what he is today, so the least he could do is show some respect. At this point I think he's so unwilling to say he screwed his own franchise, he resorts to poor excuses and lame statements. He's probably so used to having his butt kissed at Lucasfilm by yes-men and ILM lackeys 24 hours a day, he can't take constructive criticism anymore.

I don't think it's the fans who have the problem, after all, it was Lucas who forgot largely who his target audience was, namely the people who grew up with the original trilogy. At least they're the ones smart enough to know he's been pulling the PT stories out of his ass for the past 5 years or so, making most of it up as he went along.

His repeated assertions that Star Wars is for kids is total bunk. The OT appealed to all audiences, and it never really pandered down to a child's humor level (can you say poodoo jokes?). The Ewoks were cute but I didn't find them so awful as to induce groans every time I saw them. I remember being there in 83' in the theatre and people were cheering, Ewoks and all. Now we're stuck with awful characters such as Watto and alien pod-race commentators.

Lucas is like someone with strong body odor, who can't smell his own stench. Everyone else gags while he goes happily on his way because he's too naive to see how bad he's smelling it up.

Personally, I can't see why the older fans don't make a stand and cast votes against his revisionist garbage by not buying what he's selling. The people who complain and yet give Lucas their hard earned cash make me sick.

Unmolested OT forever, Prequels never took place. That's my stance.

-G
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To Bizzle and Joe_H:

I'm not going to get into a flame war with you. I'm going to ignore your worthless comments for now on.


E!-A!-G!-L!-E!-S! EAGLES!!!
SUPERBOWL LII CHAMPS!!!

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Originally posted by: joe_H
You guys are pretty frickin' pathetic. Please spare us the psychoanalyzing of George Lucas. None of you know a damn thing about the man, and have never met the man. George Lucas is probably more sane than any twat on this board. After all, I don't see him sitting around on a message board whining like a frickin' baby because he didn't get his way. Get out and perhaps find a girl and stop whining because some filmmaker you don't even know didn't give you what you want. That's truly sad. Insulting Lucas doesn't change a damn thing, and it's not going to help you get what you want.


blah blah blah blah...
im surprised you can talk with that much bullshit in your mouth....

but i guess that helps you talk shit on your daddy's computer while he's at work right?

get to bed little one... its past your bedtime
"Never. I'll never turn to the darkside. You've failed your highness. I am a jedi, like my father before me."
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Anyway, in reference to the *original* topic, I'm 17 and I grew up watching the SE's.

I had only seen the OOT a year before the SE's came out with the "faces" boxset, so I didn't have the 19+ years experience with them as some of you had, but after the "new car smell" so to speak faded from the SE's, I realized that they were just revisionist crap and that most of the scenes were redundant and pointless.

When the Prequels came along 3 years later they just didn't have the feel or the "soul" that I found in every movie of the OOT, I don't think they are the finest movies in the world but I am not a Prequel-hater.
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them during the long winter evenings."
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unfortunatly I am a Prequil-hater. I wish I could say I wasn't.


E!-A!-G!-L!-E!-S! EAGLES!!!
SUPERBOWL LII CHAMPS!!!

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Maybe Ep III will change your "old" mind
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself. They're pretty bad. I grieve over them during the long winter evenings."
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Thank you Sessler. That's the type of thing I was wondering about. It disturbs me when anyone generalizes about a demographic group (ie 25 and under) and just assumes that they have different standards of quality based on their age. Especially when its used by a 60 year old man to justify a sub-par body of work.
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Originally posted by: TheSessler
Maybe Ep III will change your "old" mind


I hope so, but I doubt it.


E!-A!-G!-L!-E!-S! EAGLES!!!
SUPERBOWL LII CHAMPS!!!

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Try to approach it with an open mind Warbler, and try to focus on the good. At least there may be moments you enjoy, and that can count for something. That's my theory at least.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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Truthfully I'm liking AotC less and less. That (expletive delted) fireplace scene gets worse and worse everytime I watch it.

I serioulsy hope RotS redeems it.

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Originally posted by: Klingon_Jedi
Try to approach it with an open mind Warbler, and try to focus on the good. At least there may be moments you enjoy, and that can count for something. That's my theory at least.


*sigh* I shall try.


E!-A!-G!-L!-E!-S! EAGLES!!!
SUPERBOWL LII CHAMPS!!!

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And if not, you can always wait for MagFans inevitable third edit.

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Originally posted by: G.L.
"We have two fan bases. One is over 25 and one is under 25," Lucas said. "The over-25 fan base is loyal to the first three films. They actually are in their 30s and 40s now, so they're in control of the media, they're in control of the Web, they're in control of everything, basically. So mostly, what you're hearing from are people over 25 years old.


Beep! Wrong! I'm still 24, so I saw the both prequels being below 25... and I really prefer OT to PT.
[Palpatine's voice]I'm afraid you are mistaken, George ...about a great many things. [/Palpatine's voice]

C'mon, guys, there is no point to argue about it... G.L. is living in his own "neverland" that he created in his mind and will feverishly defend "his point of view", his vision of the world... hey, men in their sixties are prone to be stubborn...

How about a poll?
I saw the original theatrical release of the Old Trilogy on the big screen and I'm proud of it...
How did I accomplish that (considering my age) is my secret...
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I went through every page and read every post. I would just like to say real quick about the Michael Jackson thing, and this is not towards the person who originally used MJ as an example. Watching the news, the family sueing MJ supposedly went to Jay Leno and asked him for money, Jay Leno is going to testify against that family. I don't really follow the case so I don't want to say anything else to dig myself into a hole. But is there really any proof that MJ is a child molestor? That's all I have to say on that.

Now back to the original post. I turned 19, so I saw Episode I when I was 13 and Episode II when I was 15. When I first saw them I didn't know about all this "controversy". But as I watch them now, I thought I liked the PT better, but I am realizing that the OT is what made SW what it is. Watching the PT, it definitely seems that Lucas didn't think about what he was doing and just put the movies together quickly. One thing that sticks out in my mind is that in the OT it was said that Obi-Wan was Yoda's apprentice but in episode I he was Qui-Gon Jinn's apprentice? Yeah, he wasn't thinking there. In other posts you can find out more contradictions. I am hoping that ROTS is better than the first two PT movies. But I definitely prefer the OT.
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well ill be the lone horse. im 20 and like the pt and ot equally.

but the pool is not exactly going to be democatic seeing as this is a site devoted to the OT.

one thing gorge is wrong about is his age threshold, it the age of 20 not 25.
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Thanks again to all here, both young and old for posting your comments. Interestingly, NPR's 'Morning Edition' show had some ROTS stories today (of course) but one focused on a biography (that I think is coming out soon, I'll check on the details on the replay) of Lucas that takes much of the same stance that many of us do- that GL is/was an incredibly talented creator and idea man who was (in the biographer's words) 'destroyed' by his creation.

The biographer likened GL to the fictional character of Charles Foster Kane, of whom the film 'Citizen Kane' was about. Its a very valid comparison I think. If you haven't seen the film give it chance some day and see why its a classic, but watch it with GL in mind. Makes the story of GL seem much more tragic.

Also, the age division question was more of a curiousity on my part. We all fall in love with whatever it is we grew up with. My first James Bond was Roger Moore, as that's who I saw in the theaters first. That said though as I watched the other Bond films I was able to recognize that to my mind Sean Connery was a superior Bond- though Moore is always my fondest movie-going memory of Bond. And Christopher Reeve as Superman, etc, etc, etc.... you get the idea.

Wait- what the hell am I posting for??? I have to get in line for ROTS... lol