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Worst Ideas in Star Wars/Good Ideas that went Horribly Wrong — Page 2

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Especially with his disagreements with some of Kershner’s decisions, I doubt it. ESB went overbudget and he didn’t want that to happen again, which I’m guessing is partly why he had a tighter grip on ROTJ.

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Making the Prequels with the attitude of “everybody knows the originals.” They should have assumed nobody knew anything going into it, teaching them along the way. That way, continuity with the OT would be respected.

The oddly unhealthy attitude towards women in the Prequels is iffy. Like that Pop Culture Detective guy said, “women lead to a loss of control for the hero, driving him to the dark side” (I’m paraphrasing here). It sounds like Lucas didn’t get his divorce out of his system that easily.

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DominicCobb said:

act on instinct said:

DominicCobb said:

act on instinct said:

I don’t agree with Kasdan’s take on ROTJ but I do think they blinked and if anything could truly be undone I would have wished Gary Kurtz never left, but that’s not really an idea so instead I’ll go with Leia really shouldn’t have been so sidelined in ROTJ.

I think the truth of the matter is having Kurtz around wouldn’t have changed much. Most of the issues present in ROTJ were brought up in the Lucas/Kasdan/Marquand/Kazanjian story meetings. The fact is that Lucas was calling the shots, and Kurtz would have ultimately acquiesced to him, same as the others (the reason TESB is great is because Kurtz basically let Kershner do what he wanted, not because he was keeping Lucas in check).

I’d want Marquand out too, no offense Marquand, but he was less of a creative drive whereas having Kurtz around just on set was another layer of someone who really did understand the story, certain silly things might have been averted but we’ll of course never know, and of course I still think ROTJ pulls it together by the end, just not quite firing on all cylinders to the degree I’d qualify the first two.

It’s kind of a chicken or egg thing though. If there was a better director with a stronger vision for the film (like Kersh for TESB), it would have been a better movie. But would Lucas have hired such a director?

After his falling out with the DGA over Kershner’s credit placement in ESB, a good number of directors he could have hired (like Spielberg) were unavailable to him.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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RogueLeader said:

Especially with his disagreements with some of Kershner’s decisions, I doubt it. ESB went overbudget and he didn’t want that to happen again, which I’m guessing is partly why he had a tighter grip on ROTJ.

Yes that’s exactly the case.

SilverWook said:

DominicCobb said:

act on instinct said:

DominicCobb said:

act on instinct said:

I don’t agree with Kasdan’s take on ROTJ but I do think they blinked and if anything could truly be undone I would have wished Gary Kurtz never left, but that’s not really an idea so instead I’ll go with Leia really shouldn’t have been so sidelined in ROTJ.

I think the truth of the matter is having Kurtz around wouldn’t have changed much. Most of the issues present in ROTJ were brought up in the Lucas/Kasdan/Marquand/Kazanjian story meetings. The fact is that Lucas was calling the shots, and Kurtz would have ultimately acquiesced to him, same as the others (the reason TESB is great is because Kurtz basically let Kershner do what he wanted, not because he was keeping Lucas in check).

I’d want Marquand out too, no offense Marquand, but he was less of a creative drive whereas having Kurtz around just on set was another layer of someone who really did understand the story, certain silly things might have been averted but we’ll of course never know, and of course I still think ROTJ pulls it together by the end, just not quite firing on all cylinders to the degree I’d qualify the first two.

It’s kind of a chicken or egg thing though. If there was a better director with a stronger vision for the film (like Kersh for TESB), it would have been a better movie. But would Lucas have hired such a director?

After his falling out with the DGA over Kershner’s credit placement in ESB, a good number of directors he could have hired (like Spielberg) were unavailable to him.

While true, there was plenty of talent outside of the union, so Marquand wasn’t the only option.

Arguably were it not for Marquand’s lobbying, Lucas might have gone with someone who would have had a stronger vision and might have challenged him more. I mean, Lucas did pick Lynch first, before he turned him down. You could easily point out as well that Lucas’s co-directing on that movie was as much because of Marquand’s wishes as they were George’s - Marquand did request he be on set most shooting days after all, which Lucas had not planned to do.

So yeah, I guess I probably do wish the film had a better director (not that I hate what Marquand came up with).

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BedeHistory731 said:

Making the Prequels with the attitude of “everybody knows the originals.” They should have assumed nobody knew anything going into it, teaching them along the way. That way, continuity with the OT would be respected.

I would agree with this as being one of the worst things in Star Wars so far. It would have been so much more interesting to follow a new cast of characters which only occasionally interacted with known heroes in order to tell a story with the potential to be surprising.

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That is such a difficult question for me. I mean, would the prequels not be about Anakin’s fall?

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RogueLeader said:

That is such a difficult question for me. I mean, would the prequels not be about Anakin’s fall?

They could have been about Obi-wan’s failure as a teacher instead.

Back to terrible ideas: The Neimodians and Trade Federation. Nothing scares me more then something called The Trade Federation. And their ships were unimposing and nonthreatening in design. Compare them to the Star Destroyer. However they did give us the best dialogue in the prequels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV8QO9dZKVc

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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But could you show Obi-Wan’s failure and still save the reveal? Inevitably, it would be hard to make the prequels and not have Obi-Wan seem like he is lying to Luke in ANH.

I do agree with that. A clone Mandalorian army would’ve been a more exciting antagonists for the prequels.

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Let’s face it; the worst idea was to do prequels. They should have done sequels way earlier. Ford, Fisher, and Hamill would have been younger and more convincing as action heroes, and Lucas would probably have respected their input.

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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theprequelsrule said:

Let’s face it; the worst idea was to do prequels. They should have done sequels way earlier. Ford, Fisher, and Hamill would have been younger and more convincing as action heroes, and Lucas would probably have respected their input.

He didn’t when he made the OT, not sure why that would change if he made more.

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DominicCobb said:

theprequelsrule said:

Let’s face it; the worst idea was to do prequels. They should have done sequels way earlier. Ford, Fisher, and Hamill would have been younger and more convincing as action heroes, and Lucas would probably have respected their input.

He didn’t when he made the OT, not sure why that would change if he made more.

Don’t be such a theoretical pessimist!

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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I’ll just toss in having TLJ’s timeline starting immediately after TFA was a big mistake. Feels like Mockingjay or Deathly Hallows split up into two movies. Every film has a lengthy amount of time passed between each one. The point is to have characters grow and change, or at least see significant development from the last movie. Everyone basically feels the same from TFA to TLJ.

The Hope Awakens

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theprequelsrule said:

RogueLeader said:

That is such a difficult question for me. I mean, would the prequels not be about Anakin’s fall?

They could have been about Obi-wan’s failure as a teacher instead.

Back to terrible ideas: The Neimodians and Trade Federation. Nothing scares me more then something called The Trade Federation. And their ships were unimposing and nonthreatening in design. Compare them to the Star Destroyer. However they did give us the best dialogue in the prequels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gV8QO9dZKVc

That might have been the point though? That the Trade Federation wasn’t taken as serious as threat as they could have been. And let’s face it, clowns like Nute Gunray would not have been players without Palpatine pulling the strings.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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TavorX said:

I’ll just toss in having TLJ’s timeline starting immediately after TFA was a big mistake. Feels like Mockingjay or Deathly Hallows split up into two movies. Every film has a lengthy amount of time passed between each one. The point is to have characters grow and change, or at least see significant development from the last movie. Everyone basically feels the same from TFA to TLJ.

What are TFA and TLJ?

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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theprequelsrule said:

Let’s face it; the worst idea was to do prequels. They should have done sequels way earlier. Ford, Fisher, and Hamill would have been younger and more convincing as action heroes, and Lucas would probably have respected their input.

I doubt Lucas would’ve respected much of anything. An ST made in the '90s would’ve been preferable to the schlock we got in its place, but only if Lucas left the writing and directing to persons with actual talent and humility.

TRANSMODERNISM > POSTMODERNISM > MODERNISM > PREMODERNISM

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DuracellEnergizer said:

theprequelsrule said:

Let’s face it; the worst idea was to do prequels. They should have done sequels way earlier. Ford, Fisher, and Hamill would have been younger and more convincing as action heroes, and Lucas would probably have respected their input.

I doubt Lucas would’ve respected much of anything. An ST made in the '90s would’ve been preferable to the schlock we got in its place, but only if Lucas left the writing and directing to persons with actual talent and humility.

Lucas has talent, but yeah, the humility had disappeared by the 90s.

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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theprequelsrule said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

theprequelsrule said:

Let’s face it; the worst idea was to do prequels. They should have done sequels way earlier. Ford, Fisher, and Hamill would have been younger and more convincing as action heroes, and Lucas would probably have respected their input.

I doubt Lucas would’ve respected much of anything. An ST made in the '90s would’ve been preferable to the schlock we got in its place, but only if Lucas left the writing and directing to persons with actual talent and humility.

Lucas has talent, but yeah, the humility had disappeared by the 90s.

He HAD talent, certainly. Somewhere between 1977 and 1997, it evaporated. I see very little artistry in the “shot reverse shot” cinematography of the PT, and absolutely none in the kludgy alterations to the OT.

TRANSMODERNISM > POSTMODERNISM > MODERNISM > PREMODERNISM

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DuracellEnergizer said:

theprequelsrule said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

theprequelsrule said:

Let’s face it; the worst idea was to do prequels. They should have done sequels way earlier. Ford, Fisher, and Hamill would have been younger and more convincing as action heroes, and Lucas would probably have respected their input.

I doubt Lucas would’ve respected much of anything. An ST made in the '90s would’ve been preferable to the schlock we got in its place, but only if Lucas left the writing and directing to persons with actual talent and humility.

Lucas has talent, but yeah, the humility had disappeared by the 90s.

He HAD talent, certainly. Somewhere between 1977 and 1997, it evaporated. I see very little artistry in the “shot reverse shot” cinematography of the PT, and absolutely none in the kludgy alterations to the OT.

Possibly less collaboration and exchanges of ideas with those in their respective fields too… fewer people around who’ll say ‘no, that’s a bad idea’ or ‘how about this, instead?’ to him?

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I find that answer vague and unconvincing. Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves?
Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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I would attribute a lot to rust as well, and the fact that not all the same people were involved. He asked his director pals but everyone would rather place their bets on the guy who hadn’t directed since the first one and basically retired for 10 years, I think you can see it just in the quality of TPM compared to ROTS, the clunk factor is considerably lower. But on ideas I sympathize, how many after the first Star Wars would have said Yoda was a seriously bad idea if they only ever read it on paper? It’s harder to judge than in retrospect the bad ideas from the good.

Honestly I think if the prequels were built up to and George tested more of his prototype visual ideas like he did with young indiana jones via a television show produced sometime during the mid 90s establishing this prequel setting with maybe an even older Jedi order, we would be in MUCH better shape by the first prequel.

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theprequelsrule said:

The Phantom Menace. It just dawned on me that the story it tells is nothing more than the backstory to the backstory. We did not need it at all. In fact we don’t need AOTC either; we could have started the PT with the opening scene of ROTS and gone from there.

That’s why i always rank AOTC higher than TPM, at least it gave us the start of the Clone Wars. The Naboo conflict is wholly insignificant to the rest of the galaxy, other than Palpatine abusing Queen Amidala and Nute Gunray to become Supreme Chancellor. I don’t care if droids slaughter Gungans in the swamp or what Anakin did with 9. Sorry Lucas, Jar Jar is not my favourite character either.

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Making changes to the films outside the scope of fixing technical issues or mistakes.

Other changes - grand revisionist ‘visions’ claimed by man in charge of the studio and director of only one film… have tainted them, especially in not making availaible the unaltered theatrical originals…

(I think I may be preaching to the choir? 😃)

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Force-Abel said:

Making changes to the films outside the scope of fixing technical issues or mistakes.

Other changes - grand revisionist ‘visions’ claimed by man in charge of the studio and director of only one film… have tainted them, especially in not making availaible the unaltered theatrical originals…

(I think I may be preaching to the choir? 😃)

Or for fixing some details for consistency with other installments (e.g. like how Adywan changed the Emperor in his ESB:R to look consistent with Return of the Jedi).

Adywan’s Star Wars Revisited edits are to Blade Runner: The Final Cut as the original theatrical releases of the original trilogy are to the original version of Blade Runner.

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Qui-Gon Jinn wasn’t necessary. All that was needed was Obi-wan and Anakin. The prequels could have begun with them already Master and apprentice, building their bond right from the beginning of Ep. 1 - instead of pissing away the first chapter on a little boy and his mom.

Obi-Wan should have been older, and already a Jedi Master in Ep. 1, and Anakin, a teenager not a small boy.

Lucas traveled too far back into Anakin’s past for the prequels. We could have been spared all the childish crap that swamped Ep. 1.

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Slavicuss said:

Qui-Gon Jinn wasn’t necessary. All that was needed was Obi-wan and Anakin. The prequels could have begun with them already Master and apprentice, building their bond right from the beginning of Ep. 1 - instead of pissing away the first chapter on a little boy and his mom.

Obi-Wan should have been older, and already a Jedi Master in Ep. 1, and Anakin, a teenager not a small boy.

Lucas traveled too far back into Anakin’s past for the prequels. We could have been spared all the childish crap that swamped Ep. 1.

Completed agreed. That’s why I am a fan of (much of) Clone Wars - it does what the Prequel Trilogy should have been all about: Anakin and Obi-Wan’s relationship. Also, this is why the Machete Order is the superior watching order - it skips Ep. 1 and is better for it!