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Worst Ideas in Star Wars/Good Ideas that went Horribly Wrong

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What are the worst ideas in Star Wars? I will start with two. First; the conception of the Jedi being a creepy-weirdo-religious cult that takes children away from it’s parents and views “attachments” as something to be avoided.

Second; the nature of the force as presented in ESB. If there is no difference between moving a rock and moving a starfighter, then it follows that there is no difference between a starfighter and a Star Destroyer or a Star Destroyer and the Death Star, or…etc. THE FORCE IS ^$#@% OVERPOWERED.

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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I get what you’re coming from but I don’t think they’re the worst ideas, personally.

I felt the Jedi of the prequels were based off Buddhist monks who grow up in the temple and follow of a doctrine of non-attachment. George creating the flaws of this mindset were intentional, and the Jedi fearing attachment was meant to be their downfall.

Pop Culture Detective’s video The Case Against The Jedi Order highlights the problems you mention, but also comes to the conclusion that it was a mistake on Lucas’ part to portray them this way. But like I said, I believe portraying them this way was the point. Maybe the Jedi weren’t always this way, but after countless wars against Sith and fallen Jedi, the Order eventually became more dogmatic in an attempt to avoid that cycle.

Regarding the Force, I think it really depends on your interpretation. If the Force is meant to be taken as a form of religious belief, then the Jedi’s power stems purely from faith, believing in the Force. For Luke in ESB, the idea that he could lift his lightsaber from the snow, or a rock from the ground, is more believable than lifting a large ship from a swamp. Like Yoda says, size matters not. But of course, believing in yourself, or the Force, is still easier said than done, and this ability to let go of control is what separates a student from a master.

Really, the belief in lifting a ship is an extension of Luke believing he could make that impossible shot when destroying the Death Star. He let go and put his faith in the Force, and he did it.

All power in the Force stems from one’s belief that the Force can do anything, and letting go of one’s own preconceptions of what they, and the Force, are capable of. I think the simplicity in this message regarding the Force, which is faith and the power of belief, is what makes Star Wars so universal.

EDIT: Since this is a worse ideas thread I’ll throw out one or two.

I think Jar Jar Binks was one of George’s worst ideas, or at least the execution of it.

I also think Starkiller Base was a totally unnecessary idea. I can live with it but if I could change it I would.

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Admiral Holdo’s hyperspace-kamikaze in The Last Jedi. I mean, why hasn’t anyone used this in any space battle before, ever?

Adywan’s Star Wars Revisited edits are to Blade Runner: The Final Cut as the original theatrical releases of the original trilogy are to the original version of Blade Runner.

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FreezingTNT2 said:

Admiral Holdo’s hyperspace-kamikaze in The Last Jedi. I mean, why hasn’t anyone used this in any space battle before, ever?

+100000000000000000000.

Also: NOT having Mandalorians as the main evil faction in the Prequels. WTF was Lucas thinking???!?!?!

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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It’d already been done.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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I don’t agree with Kasdan’s take on ROTJ but I do think they blinked and if anything could truly be undone I would have wished Gary Kurtz never left, but that’s not really an idea so instead I’ll go with Leia really shouldn’t have been so sidelined in ROTJ.

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RogueLeader said:

Pop Culture Detective’s video The Case Against The Jedi Order highlights the problems you mention, but also comes to the conclusion that it was a mistake on Lucas’ part to portray them this way. But like I said, I believe portraying them this way was the point. Maybe the Jedi weren’t always this way, but after countless wars against Sith and fallen Jedi, the Order eventually became more dogmatic in an attempt to avoid that cycle.

At least for me, while that’s definitely the way it feels it should be taken, how it was received by the audience seems off. While I can look at it and go, “Yeah, if the Jedi have lost their way, it makes sense,” a lot of the fans I’ve interacted with, (and significant chunks of Legends Continuity) seem to have taken it as not just, “The way Jedi are,” but inherently part of the Light Side of the Force.

I’m of the belief that the films missed the mark on what they wanted Jedi to be, but that I can at least see what it was aiming for.

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I think it’s a good idea, but in practice it comes across as a bad idea because it never properly becomes part of the story.

act on instinct said:

I don’t agree with Kasdan’s take on ROTJ but I do think they blinked and if anything could truly be undone I would have wished Gary Kurtz never left, but that’s not really an idea so instead I’ll go with Leia really shouldn’t have been so sidelined in ROTJ.

I think the truth of the matter is having Kurtz around wouldn’t have changed much. Most of the issues present in ROTJ were brought up in the Lucas/Kasdan/Marquand/Kazanjian story meetings. The fact is that Lucas was calling the shots, and Kurtz would have ultimately acquiesced to him, same as the others (the reason TESB is great is because Kurtz basically let Kershner do what he wanted, not because he was keeping Lucas in check).

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Jedi Robes. Put on some armour you dumb fucks!

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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Anakin and Obi Wan did wear some armor in The Clone Wars, and mind the salty language.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

Anakin and Obi Wan did wear some armor in The Clone Wars, and mind the salty language.

Correct (and it looked good), and I will.

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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  • The quasi-Objectivist moral absolutism.
  • Padme dying of a broken heart.
  • Palpatine with a lightsaber.
  • Yoda with a lightsaber.
  • Leia as Luke’s sister.
  • Dumbshit names like Plagueis, Tyrannis, Greedo, Porkins, Savage Opress, Elan Sleazebaggano, etc.
  • That darksiders only use red lightsabers.
  • That lightsiders almost only use blue/green lightsabers.
  • That Jedi bring knives to gunfights (put away your ceremonial laser swords and use blasters, you stupid ****s).
  • The notion that there were only 10,000 Jedi in existence during the Clone Wars — all of whom fought directly on the front lines.
  • That Force powers such as telekinesis or Force lightning aren’t incredibly difficult skills only seasoned practitioners can utilize with any ease.
  • Death Star II: Superlaser Boogaloo.
  • Everything in the ST.

TRANSMODERNISM > POSTMODERNISM > MODERNISM > PREMODERNISM

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Lando having a sexual relationship with his droid. It is difficult to believe that someone NOT named George Lucas could come up with that.

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Dumbshit names like Plagueis, Tyrannis, Greedo, Porkins, Savage Opress, Elan Sleazebaggano, etc.

Don’t forget Palpatine, Anakin, Yoda, Dooku, Padmé, Obi-Wan, Bail, Organa, Skywalker, Shmi, Binks, Panaka, and literally every made-up name in the whole franchise, whether it be your first name or surname.

Adywan’s Star Wars Revisited edits are to Blade Runner: The Final Cut as the original theatrical releases of the original trilogy are to the original version of Blade Runner.

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theprequelsrule said:

Lando having a sexual relationship with his droid. It is difficult to believe that someone NOT named George Lucas could come up with that.

If it was the blonde gynoid from Shadows of the Empire, that I could understand.

TRANSMODERNISM > POSTMODERNISM > MODERNISM > PREMODERNISM

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FreezingTNT2 said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Dumbshit names like Plagueis, Tyrannis, Greedo, Porkins, Savage Opress, Elan Sleazebaggano, etc.

Don’t forget Palpatine, Anakin, Yoda, Dooku, Padmé, Obi-Wan, Bail, Organa, Skywalker, Shmi, Binks, Panaka, and literally every made-up name in the whole franchise, whether it be your first name or surname.

You’re right — Dooku, Padme, Bail, Shmi, and Binks do suck, too.

TRANSMODERNISM > POSTMODERNISM > MODERNISM > PREMODERNISM

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FreezingTNT2 said:

Admiral Holdo’s hyperspace-kamikaze in The Last Jedi. I mean, why hasn’t anyone used this in any space battle before, ever?

Because they couldn’t afford to lose large cruisers like that before and also a damn lightsabre didn’t just split in two erupting a huge flash of force energy at the exact same time. Why do you think the explosion trails were pure white? 😉

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

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FreezingTNT2 said:

Admiral Holdo’s hyperspace-kamikaze in The Last Jedi. I mean, why hasn’t anyone used this in any space battle before, ever?

These may be of some interest / information / alternative viewpoints etc…
 

Did Hyperspace Ramming exist before THE LAST JEDI?’:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scFX3fdp1f0 - by EckhartsLadder
 

Hyperspeed Ramming: Does it break Star Wars lore?’:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pLdjf2NSiU - by EC Henry
 

& maybe…

The Last Jedi SOLVES Space Combat’:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmk3YS7xLOo - also by EC Henry

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

I find that answer vague and unconvincing. Why don’t you knock it off with them negative waves?
Why don’t you dig how beautiful it is out here? And say something righteous and hopeful for a change?

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adywan said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

Admiral Holdo’s hyperspace-kamikaze in The Last Jedi. I mean, why hasn’t anyone used this in any space battle before, ever?

Because they couldn’t afford to lose large cruisers like that before and also a damn lightsabre didn’t just split in two erupting a huge flash of force energy at the exact same time. Why do you think the explosion trails were pure white? 😉

To be fair it tore a wing off of the Supremacy and took down other ships in the way

Adywan’s Star Wars Revisited edits are to Blade Runner: The Final Cut as the original theatrical releases of the original trilogy are to the original version of Blade Runner.

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I think calling for “worst ideas” is just asking for arguments. But the second part sounds interesting.

I’d say most of Lucas’s PT sounds interesting in theory but falls apart because of the lack of character drama. I think if Lucas was better at directing characters we would have some solid Star Wars movies. A better directed Anakin could have been likable from the start, so we feel for him when he fails to gain Padme’s attention or feels constrained by Obi-Wan. Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan’s interactions with the Trade Federation could have been funny. And the one time they actually show great emotion - the High Ground scene - we would feel far more for these characters.

I also wonder if had Lucas written these as books, not screenplays, we would have liked, maybe even praised the storytelling.

Maul- A Star Wars Story

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flametitan said:

At least for me, while that’s definitely the way it feels it should be taken, how it was received by the audience seems off. While I can look at it and go, “Yeah, if the Jedi have lost their way, it makes sense,” a lot of the fans I’ve interacted with, (and significant chunks of Legends Continuity) seem to have taken it as not just, “The way Jedi are,” but inherently part of the Light Side of the Force.

I’m of the belief that the films missed the mark on what they wanted Jedi to be, but that I can at least see what it was aiming for.

Yeah, I think that is fair point! I think a way future stories could alleviate the discrepancy between the Prequel-Jedi and how fans saw Jedi before the prequels would be to have a story set in the Old Republic that shows how the Jedi transitioned into fundamentalism. Maybe the Jedi of the past had more freedom and were more swashbuckler, but maybe one or several Jedi fell to the dark side due to their attachment and the war that followed really wreaked havoc on the galaxy. And this conflict caused the Jedi to re-evaluate their code and they reacted by becoming more dogmatic and traditional (raising Jedi from birth, no possessions, monk robes, etc).

It could be one way to handle it at least.

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The Phantom Menace. It just dawned on me that the story it tells is nothing more than the backstory to the backstory. We did not need it at all. In fact we don’t need AOTC either; we could have started the PT with the opening scene of ROTS and gone from there.

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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RogueLeader said:

flametitan said:

At least for me, while that’s definitely the way it feels it should be taken, how it was received by the audience seems off. While I can look at it and go, “Yeah, if the Jedi have lost their way, it makes sense,” a lot of the fans I’ve interacted with, (and significant chunks of Legends Continuity) seem to have taken it as not just, “The way Jedi are,” but inherently part of the Light Side of the Force.

I’m of the belief that the films missed the mark on what they wanted Jedi to be, but that I can at least see what it was aiming for.

Yeah, I think that is fair point! I think a way future stories could alleviate the discrepancy between the Prequel-Jedi and how fans saw Jedi before the prequels would be to have a story set in the Old Republic that shows how the Jedi transitioned into fundamentalism. Maybe the Jedi of the past had more freedom and were more swashbuckler, but maybe one or several Jedi fell to the dark side due to their attachment and the war that followed really wreaked havoc on the galaxy. And this conflict caused the Jedi to re-evaluate their code and they reacted by becoming more dogmatic and traditional (raising Jedi from birth, no possessions, monk robes, etc).

It could be one way to handle it at least.

I agree and hope this will be explored. In fact, TLJ seemed to touch on this very thing.

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theprequelsrule said:

The Phantom Menace. It just dawned on me that the story it tells is nothing more than the backstory to the backstory. We did not need it at all. In fact we don’t need AOTC either; we could have started the PT with the opening scene of ROTS and gone from there.

To be fair it is episode 1, but yeah it’s just so boring, that’s definitely the longest lasting problem for me, plays out like a tv pilot, ROTS might be too far in I still want the arc, but we got a whole Luke arc without starting when he was 9…

DominicCobb said:

act on instinct said:

I don’t agree with Kasdan’s take on ROTJ but I do think they blinked and if anything could truly be undone I would have wished Gary Kurtz never left, but that’s not really an idea so instead I’ll go with Leia really shouldn’t have been so sidelined in ROTJ.

I think the truth of the matter is having Kurtz around wouldn’t have changed much. Most of the issues present in ROTJ were brought up in the Lucas/Kasdan/Marquand/Kazanjian story meetings. The fact is that Lucas was calling the shots, and Kurtz would have ultimately acquiesced to him, same as the others (the reason TESB is great is because Kurtz basically let Kershner do what he wanted, not because he was keeping Lucas in check).

I’d want Marquand out too, no offense Marquand, but he was less of a creative drive whereas having Kurtz around just on set was another layer of someone who really did understand the story, certain silly things might have been averted but we’ll of course never know, and of course I still think ROTJ pulls it together by the end, just not quite firing on all cylinders to the degree I’d qualify the first two.

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act on instinct said:

DominicCobb said:

act on instinct said:

I don’t agree with Kasdan’s take on ROTJ but I do think they blinked and if anything could truly be undone I would have wished Gary Kurtz never left, but that’s not really an idea so instead I’ll go with Leia really shouldn’t have been so sidelined in ROTJ.

I think the truth of the matter is having Kurtz around wouldn’t have changed much. Most of the issues present in ROTJ were brought up in the Lucas/Kasdan/Marquand/Kazanjian story meetings. The fact is that Lucas was calling the shots, and Kurtz would have ultimately acquiesced to him, same as the others (the reason TESB is great is because Kurtz basically let Kershner do what he wanted, not because he was keeping Lucas in check).

I’d want Marquand out too, no offense Marquand, but he was less of a creative drive whereas having Kurtz around just on set was another layer of someone who really did understand the story, certain silly things might have been averted but we’ll of course never know, and of course I still think ROTJ pulls it together by the end, just not quite firing on all cylinders to the degree I’d qualify the first two.

It’s kind of a chicken or egg thing though. If there was a better director with a stronger vision for the film (like Kersh for TESB), it would have been a better movie. But would Lucas have hired such a director?