Working with DVD Storylines (seamless branching) - TEST FILE

Anyone have experience creating alternative playback storylines options in DVDs? (not sure of the correct terminology) It sounds simple, just add chapter markers to the -in- & -out- points and then have the storyline skip or shift to the desired markers during playback. Curious what other issues to be aware of when starting this process.

The goal is to take a TV recording and have a playback option which skips the commercials. Possibly might have a third option which will offer up a second set of commercials instead of the original ones.

My initial concern is the main VOB, i'm guessing I should have the main feature contain all the video material, instead of moving the commercials to a separate VOB, since this will be a DVD9 project if they're moved playback will be stilted. Also the parts which will be swapped in the storylines should be edited so they are next to each other.

The other thing i'm afraid of is the 99 chapter marker limit. the SW movies have at least 50 by themselves, so with additional commercial breaks that's around 70-75, so with a double set of commercials, that's getting close to the limit.

Thinking out loud, any idea concerns suggestions welcomed.

none

I think you're talking about seamless branching?

I don't know anything tech-wise but I have heard that it is very difficult to pull off in a way that most people's players can handle.

none said:

The goal is to take a TV recording and have a playback option which skips the commercials.  Possibly might have a third option which will offer up a second set of commercials instead of the original ones.

Why do you need the commercials?  Is it nostalgia?  I have no experience with seamless branching.  Instead, if I were you, I would:

1.  Edit out the commercials for the main feature, in your editing program.

2.  Make the original commericals into a video featurette.  Make another featurette with the alternative commercials.

3.  Author a DVD with the main feature, and add two extras: original commercials featurette and alternative commercials featurette.

That way you could edit without having to worry about seamless branching, avoid compatibility problems and preserve the commercials.  Just a thought!

Seamless branching was also the term I too was familiar with, but looking through the glossary of DVD Studio Pro, they used the Storyline terminology.

All the options Chewtobacca mentioned are possible.  But for now this thread is for researching issues related to seamless branching/storylining.

Once the 'Preservation' forum thread is created then this might all change as the project specifics get discussed.  The projects inspiration is the tv format and separating out the elements for the convience of production, is something I can afford to look past at this time.

none

CompMovieGuy said:

From what I have read about seamless branching, is just like what chewie said, its very hard to pull off with the player actually liking the end result.

I think I said it first.

;-)

none said:

All the options Chewtobacca mentioned are possible.  But for now this thread is for researching issues related to seamless branching/storylining.

Once the 'Preservation' forum thread is created then this might all change as the project specifics get discussed.  The projects inspiration is the tv format and separating out the elements for the convience of production, is something I can afford to look past at this time.

I understand, and am sorry for not really answering the question.  :-) I did try to find out how to do this a while back, and could not find any precise information.  (To be clear, I intended the three points in my first post to be successive steps, rather than different options.)

I believe DVD Lab Pro is your best bet for seamless branching. 

CompMovieGuy wrote: I believe it has to do with how the video is muxed and stored on the DVD, with the branched part not being in the same location of the media on the disc and instead being at the end of the disc or something of that sort

It sounds like having the video materials (which in this case are getting swapped) as close as possible will alleviate this kind of problem.  And having the starting chapter marker also a compression marker might also make the muxing playback easier.  Again since this is a commercial segment which will be jumped it's maximum 8 minutes, more like 4-6, and that shouldn't cause massive studder or wait as it re-find the next playlist marker.  Since the film has a built in fade-out/in at the breaks, that could mask the wait.  Guessing that the most often play option, the commercial break should be right next to the fade out of the movie, so that the skip happens at the end of the most often played back, and the reverse for the secondary option. (since it'll have to seek to find the alternative commercial break)

DVD-BOY wrote: The Storyline Approach that DVD Studio Pro refers to is more commonly known as 'playlists', whereby you can re-arrange your chapters into a new order without increasing space on the disc.

This is the process i'll be looking into.  Do you know how it differs then seamless branching?  or is it just a similar term and the differences are in how the programs sort it out.

none

If anyone's into beta-testing, please download:

http://noneinc.com/SWUE/SWUE-Test001.img

(250 mg)

It's 10 minutes of video, with the various play back options which are being considered for the project.  It's not a perfect test, in that if burned to a disc, it'll be at the center which will have a faster seek time.  but on my computer it plays ok, need to be aware of audio issues when selecting the markers in the future.  Let me know what problems you forsee.

Also feel free to comment on the visuals, that's the lowest quality settings, and it looks ok, the source is VHS LP.

none

Returning to this idea again, have used the playlist option on multiple DVDs since this thread and no one's said anything, so guessing they've worked.

Am now considering a project which follows more of the Seamless Branching Multi-Angle mentioned by DVD-BOY.  The DVD format is a fall back position, but as there are all these other formats/containers gaining popularity, looking to understand if any of them should be considered.  MP4 and MKV or AVCHD?

The idea is to have two audio and two video streams, randomly chosen, but swappable on the fly.  Hoping that two streams of upconverted LD rip (720x576) to 1280x544ish will fit in the bit rate space of a DVD9.  or whatever format can be figured out.

The multi-angle option i'm attempting to work through.  The main hurdle just solved for a 10 minute section is the multi-angle video needs to be almost exact.  The GOP (Group of Pictures) the i,b,p frames need to be consistant, between sources.  Which is easy if the two videos matched but these do not share any one shot at any one time.  Figured out how to auto insert thousands of compression markers so the two videos which wouldn't normally share common GOP characteristics, now can.  About to find out how bad that affects the video compression.  I'm playing with the minimum being in the high 3's.  So that an H.264, 2hr can fit in 4gb so two full movies can exists in the multi-angle video.  Slow progress, but getting closer to working.

Anyone know any other multi-angle things to consider when making the DVD? 

In several wiki pages, they say that the SW dvds have multi-angle material, but don't remember hearing anyone mention it.  Is this correct?  If yes, which release:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Video

Chapters and angles

DVD Video may contain chapters for easy navigation (and continuation of a partially watched film). If space permits, it is also possible to include several versions (called "angles") of certain scenes, though today this feature is mostly used—if at all—not to show different angles of the action, but as part of internationalization to, for example, show different language versions of images containing written text, if subtitles will not do (e.g., the Queen's spell book in Snow White, and the scrolling text in the openings of the Star Wars films). Multiple angles have found a niche in markets such as yoga and erotica.