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Why we love the prequels @ SW.com — Page 3

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Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

The truth is, I really don't care if there are people who actually prefer the prequels...

That's where I've always been too.  Fact is, I never give it a moment's thought.

As has already been mentioned; these six people were picked by Lucas specifically to gush over the prequels - the three Star Wars films that always have people apologizing for them and\or defending them. 

The prequels don't speak for the franchise.  They're just a revisit that, while they made tons of money, failed artistically and were panned mercilessly by critics.  The most attention they received was for the software that created them - not for their influence on culture or film, which is none. 

That "panel" of Lucas employees gushers is nothing more than marketing. 

The fact that Lucas is still trying to spin the prequels speaks volumes.

 

 

Forum Moderator
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CO said:

I like this guy on the panle named Hodges who says that the Prequels were all laid out in 1976, so that should debunk all the PT haters that Lucas made this up as he went along.

Hey genius, he started making this shit up in 1980!!!!  Uh, Lucas gets a hard-on for incest because he had Leia kiss her brother!  Unless he considers dying when I was very young the same as dying at childbirth.  Unless he would have Uncle Owen forget he owned C3PO for 10 years when Episode IV rolls around as he is buying droids from the Jawas.

Oh yeah, and that one detail that Lucas calls the Saga now 'The Tragedy of Darth Vader,' yet the novel of Star Wars in 1977 is called, "Star Wars and the Adventures of Luke Skywalker."

Its a shame these fucking morons have to sit side by side with us as Star Wars fans.  I swear this shows me that PT defenders are the biggest fucking idiots!

 Fuck you man. Just because I love the OOT, doesn't mean I have to stand here and take your shit for enjoying the prequels.

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sunday256 said:

CO said:

I like this guy on the panle named Hodges who says that the Prequels were all laid out in 1976, so that should debunk all the PT haters that Lucas made this up as he went along.

Hey genius, he started making this shit up in 1980!!!!  Uh, Lucas gets a hard-on for incest because he had Leia kiss her brother!  Unless he considers dying when I was very young the same as dying at childbirth.  Unless he would have Uncle Owen forget he owned C3PO for 10 years when Episode IV rolls around as he is buying droids from the Jawas.

Oh yeah, and that one detail that Lucas calls the Saga now 'The Tragedy of Darth Vader,' yet the novel of Star Wars in 1977 is called, "Star Wars and the Adventures of Luke Skywalker."

Its a shame these fucking morons have to sit side by side with us as Star Wars fans.  I swear this shows me that PT defenders are the biggest fucking idiots!

 Fuck you man. Just because I love the OOT, doesn't mean I have to stand here and take your shit for enjoying the prequels.

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Here is the heart of PT apologism:

Taking the whole thing personally, and taking aesthetic criticism of a film one did not make as a personal affront.

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I can't imagine being told that I only like a univrsally loved best picture nominated classic film more than I like a critically panned CGI-fest with atrocious acting because of nostalgia. Who would say:  

"You only like The Godfather more than the new Clash of the Titans because it was out when you were a kid!"

George Lucas is demonstrably a liar, and to believe in the "master plan" theory requires either overwheling cognitive dissonance or just being criminally naive.

Lucas: "Despite all evidence to the contrary, including my own words and actions, I've always had this all planned out and just kept it secret, including contradicting myself and reworking things decades later in order to trick people.'

If someone loves the PT more than the OT for real, why weren't their points about the quality of the PT.

"I prefer my lightsaber combat manic and FX enhanced"
"I was deeply moved by the great love story"
"Finding out Boba Fett was some kind of clone kid really increased my enjoyment of the character."
"I was intrigued that young slave Anakin somehow made droids in his spare time."

But none of this is said. One dude said something he liked about the PT. The rest was all SE justifying and explanations why what fans don't like about the PT is invalid.

"Yoda's a crazy non-wise monkey in the PT because he's not there yet."
"Hayden in ROTJ really clicked!"
"The PT somehow improved the OT! Really!"
"Lucas always had a plan! "

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sunday256 said:

CO said:

I like this guy on the panle named Hodges who says that the Prequels were all laid out in 1976, so that should debunk all the PT haters that Lucas made this up as he went along.

Hey genius, he started making this shit up in 1980!!!!  Uh, Lucas gets a hard-on for incest because he had Leia kiss her brother!  Unless he considers dying when I was very young the same as dying at childbirth.  Unless he would have Uncle Owen forget he owned C3PO for 10 years when Episode IV rolls around as he is buying droids from the Jawas.

Oh yeah, and that one detail that Lucas calls the Saga now 'The Tragedy of Darth Vader,' yet the novel of Star Wars in 1977 is called, "Star Wars and the Adventures of Luke Skywalker."

Its a shame these fucking morons have to sit side by side with us as Star Wars fans.  I swear this shows me that PT defenders are the biggest fucking idiots!

 Fuck you man. Just because I love the OOT, doesn't mean I have to stand here and take your shit for enjoying the prequels.

 Lighten up Francis ;)

If you agree with this guy about how Lucas laid everything out for the PT back in 1976 (which is a blatant lie), then you are a moron too.  Again, if you enjoy the PT, thats cool with me, but I get annoyed with the PT fans who shovel this shit of revisionism about the SW movies these days. 

 

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Objectively speaking, I would agree that it doesn't matter if people like the prequels and special editions or not, if the originals weren't being deliberately suppressed.  However, on an emotional level, it in fact does disturb me a great deal.  I fervently wish they had never been made at all, both because I loathe the revisionism and because I hate the fact that this whole 'controversy' even has to exist.

Moreover, I feel like a fool looking back on the time when I actually did like them and was taken in by their flashiness.  Like Marion's father towards Indiana Jones, it took a hell of a lot to alienate me from Lucas.  For a long time I cheerfully accepted the company line that the SE's were so much better, and thought TPM was just dandy.  AotC began to set me on the path of realising something wasn't right, but RotS at first seemed to make it all okay again.  It wasn't until the sheer awfulness of the 2004 dvd's, which I didn't buy until after RotS came out, that it fully sunk in for me just how rotten things had become in Denmark . . . er, Star Wars.  Being as focused on sound as I am, I could possibly have even accepted those further changes if the dvd sound mix hadn't been so disgustingly terrible.  At that point I finally took a good hard look back at all the stupid things Lucas had been doing, and for the first time saw them for what they truly were.  It was a sobering experience to say the least.

Watching the original versions of the films again for the first time in eight years was like getting back together with old friends I hadn't even known I'd missed, that I had unthinkingly abandoned to be with the superficial popular crowd.  How could I have ever been made to think they were lacking or in need of revision?  Then I discovered this forum and learned about all the sound mixes and other small differences even the originals have had over the years, and became interested in them from a technical perspective as well as what made them artistically superior.  I also re-read Timothy Zahn's works and saw how much better his ideas were than what Lucas actually did.

So in the face of this tremendous unwilling disillusionment with something that has meant so much to me over the years, the notion that people would continue to actively believe and support LFL's nonsense is something I find utterly repugnant.  It might sound snobbish to say, but I think I learned a valuable lesson about what it means to have good taste, as opposed to lapping something up simply because it has the name "Star Wars" on it.  I hate that it has to be this way, and part of me still longs for the days when there was no split and the creator hadn't ruined the integrity of his own story, which could only be if the prequels and special editions had never been made.

Undoubtedly Star Wars means different things to different people, but that the now-official view bears no resemblance to what it used to be, and cannot be reconciled with the way I myself see it, means that the people who do support the party line on some fundamental level just do not get it.  They don't know what Star Wars is really about, they don't understand what it is that makes it work or not work, and seem to be incapable of distinguishing between the two.

Still, despite how much it took to alienate me, I was never really one of them, because I never actively derided the original versions of the films.  To me, they used to be one and the same.  I didn't extracate myself until it sunk in that Lucas meant to suppress the real films and replace them, and that the prequels' contradictions were meant as active retcons rather than simple oversight.  Unlike prequel gushers, I do not want to think about the ways the newer material fundamentally (and nonsensically) alters aspects of the story.  Unfortunately, the vile truth is that many people will continue to believe Lucas' revisionist crap, either not knowing how the story has been changed and destroyed, not caring, or thinking it to be a genuine improvement.

And that is why I hate the fact the prequels and special editions even exist.

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CO said:

sunday256 said:

CO said:

I like this guy on the panle named Hodges who says that the Prequels were all laid out in 1976, so that should debunk all the PT haters that Lucas made this up as he went along.

Hey genius, he started making this shit up in 1980!!!!  Uh, Lucas gets a hard-on for incest because he had Leia kiss her brother!  Unless he considers dying when I was very young the same as dying at childbirth.  Unless he would have Uncle Owen forget he owned C3PO for 10 years when Episode IV rolls around as he is buying droids from the Jawas.

Oh yeah, and that one detail that Lucas calls the Saga now 'The Tragedy of Darth Vader,' yet the novel of Star Wars in 1977 is called, "Star Wars and the Adventures of Luke Skywalker."

Its a shame these fucking morons have to sit side by side with us as Star Wars fans.  I swear this shows me that PT defenders are the biggest fucking idiots!

 Fuck you man. Just because I love the OOT, doesn't mean I have to stand here and take your shit for enjoying the prequels.

 Lighten up Francis ;)

If you agree with this guy about how Lucas laid everything out for the PT back in 1976 (which is a blatant lie), then you are a moron too.  Again, if you enjoy the PT, thats cool with me, but I get annoyed with the PT fans who shovel this shit of revisionism about the SW movies these days. 

 

I could care less what people are saying or not saying over at sw.com. I didn't read it. But I did read your blanket flame against all prequel defenders. I'm old enough to have seen SW in the theater. And my opinion I could come up with enough crap to say what's wrong with every one of Lucas' Star Wars films. They all have things about them in which I think could be improved upon, but the point is that I don't sit and nitpick every damn thing. Some people find ways to enjoy the films. I'm one of them. So go ahead and lump us all of us fuckers together. But don't expect everyone to take your comments up the ass. What am I getting at? Don't just assume everyone reading this board agrees that the prequels are shit and you have the right to just say whatever the hell you want without rebuttle.

Francis my ass. Winger for the win.

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sunday256 said:

I could care less what people are saying or not saying over at sw.com. I didn't read it. But I did read your blanket flame against all prequel defenders. I'm old enough to have seen SW in the theater. And my opinion I could come up with enough crap to say what's wrong with every one of Lucas' Star Wars films. They all have things about them in which I think could be improved upon, but the point is that I don't sit and nitpick every damn thing. Some people find ways to enjoy the films. I'm one of them. So go ahead and lump us all of us fuckers together. But don't expect everyone to take your comments up the ass. What am I getting at? Don't just assume everyone reading this board agrees that the prequels are shit and you have the right to just say whatever the hell you want without rebuttle.

Francis my ass. Winger for the win.

http://files.myopera.com/BOSOX/albums/36990/stfu28ce.png

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sunday256 said:

 

I could care less what people are saying or not saying over at sw.com. I didn't read it. But I did read your blanket flame against all prequel defenders. I'm old enough to have seen SW in the theater. And my opinion I could come up with enough crap to say what's wrong with every one of Lucas' Star Wars films. They all have things about them in which I think could be improved upon, but the point is that I don't sit and nitpick every damn thing. Some people find ways to enjoy the films. I'm one of them. So go ahead and lump us all of us fuckers together. But don't expect everyone to take your comments up the ass. What am I getting at? Don't just assume everyone reading this board agrees that the prequels are shit and you have the right to just say whatever the hell you want without rebuttle.

Francis my ass. Winger for the win.

 

Listen Francis, you sound like a typical PT fan, bring down the OT in the process to lower the standards of all the movies.  I heard that argument before.

The problem is people like you enjoy mediocrity, and that is why Lucas keeps peddling average shit your way for the last 13 years.  Sorry, but I don't think Star Wars and Empire need a damn thing improved on, thats why I love those films, cause they're pretty damn good. 

If you like the PT, god bless you, but don't give me that shit that the OT had the same problems the PT did, because if it did, it would have never been as popular, and the Prequels, or even Empire or Jedi wouldn't exist. 

Go enjoy your 6 film saga of mediocrity Francis!

 

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TV's Frink said:

btw, what the hell is a rebuttle?

There's this buttled thing and it gets unbuttled and then they pour the contents out and stick it in a new buttle.

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 (Edited)

Ok, but in this context...

sunday256 said:

Don't just assume everyone reading this board agrees that the prequels are shit and you have the right to just say whatever the hell you want without rebuttle.

...if CO takes the thing in the buttle, pours it out, and then puts it into a different buttle...he can say whatever he wants?

Damn, I gotta find me one of these buttles.

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TV's Frink said:

Ok, but in this context...

sunday256 said:

Don't just assume everyone reading this board agrees that the prequels are shit and you have the right to just say whatever the hell you want without rebuttle.

...if CO takes the thing in the buttle, pours it out, and then puts it into a different buttle...he can say whatever he wants?

Damn, I gotta find me one of these buttles.

 I found the buttle!

OK, Sunday256, you're a Prequel Defending moron!

;)

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Heh-heh, you forgot to rebuttle it.  Go back two spaces.

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Is it wrong of me to be annoyed when an articulate post gets swallowed up amidst inane feuding?  Is it unreasonable to expect to be able to engage in any sort of intelligent discussion?

Oh wait, this is the internet, sorry.

:p

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Oh wait, this is the internet, sorry.

Internet?

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hairy_hen said:

Is it wrong of me to be annoyed when an articulate post gets swallowed up amidst inane feuding?  Is it unreasonable to expect to be able to engage in any sort of intelligent discussion?

Oh wait, this is the internet, sorry.

:p

 I'm just having fun with Francis (aka Sunday256), as I couldn't help it after he called me out on the schoolyard today ;)

I'll stop derailing this thread.  I apologize :)

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hairy_hen said:

Objectively speaking, I would agree that it doesn't matter if people like the prequels and special editions or not, if the originals weren't being deliberately suppressed.  However, on an emotional level, it in fact does disturb me a great deal.  I fervently wish they had never been made at all, both because I loathe the revisionism and because I hate the fact that this whole 'controversy' even has to exist.

Moreover, I feel like a fool looking back on the time when I actually did like them and was taken in by their flashiness.  Like Marion's father towards Indiana Jones, it took a hell of a lot to alienate me from Lucas.  For a long time I cheerfully accepted the company line that the SE's were so much better, and thought TPM was just dandy.  AotC began to set me on the path of realising something wasn't right, but RotS at first seemed to make it all okay again.  It wasn't until the sheer awfulness of the 2004 dvd's, which I didn't buy until after RotS came out, that it fully sunk in for me just how rotten things had become in Denmark . . . er, Star Wars.  Being as focused on sound as I am, I could possibly have even accepted those further changes if the dvd sound mix hadn't been so disgustingly terrible.  At that point I finally took a good hard look back at all the stupid things Lucas had been doing, and for the first time saw them for what they truly were.  It was a sobering experience to say the least.

Watching the original versions of the films again for the first time in eight years was like getting back together with old friends I hadn't even known I'd missed, that I had unthinkingly abandoned to be with the superficial popular crowd.  How could I have ever been made to think they were lacking or in need of revision?  Then I discovered this forum and learned about all the sound mixes and other small differences even the originals have had over the years, and became interested in them from a technical perspective as well as what made them artistically superior.  I also re-read Timothy Zahn's works and saw how much better his ideas were than what Lucas actually did.

So in the face of this tremendous unwilling disillusionment with something that has meant so much to me over the years, the notion that people would continue to actively believe and support LFL's nonsense is something I find utterly repugnant.  It might sound snobbish to say, but I think I learned a valuable lesson about what it means to have good taste, as opposed to lapping something up simply because it has the name "Star Wars" on it.  I hate that it has to be this way, and part of me still longs for the days when there was no split and the creator hadn't ruined the integrity of his own story, which could only be if the prequels and special editions had never been made.

Undoubtedly Star Wars means different things to different people, but that the now-official view bears no resemblance to what it used to be, and cannot be reconciled with the way I myself see it, means that the people who do support the party line on some fundamental level just do not get it.  They don't know what Star Wars is really about, they don't understand what it is that makes it work or not work, and seem to be incapable of distinguishing between the two.

Still, despite how much it took to alienate me, I was never really one of them, because I never actively derided the original versions of the films.  To me, they used to be one and the same.  I didn't extracate myself until it sunk in that Lucas meant to suppress the real films and replace them, and that the prequels' contradictions were meant as active retcons rather than simple oversight.  Unlike prequel gushers, I do not want to think about the ways the newer material fundamentally (and nonsensically) alters aspects of the story.  Unfortunately, the vile truth is that many people will continue to believe Lucas' revisionist crap, either not knowing how the story has been changed and destroyed, not caring, or thinking it to be a genuine improvement.

And that is why I hate the fact the prequels and special editions even exist.

Damn good post,  hairy_hen.

The poster also known as, "Tosche-Station"

"This is spurious business!" -  'Anonymous'

"Don't freakin' dissemble!" - Jack Nicholson as the Joker if he were in the movie 'Anger Management'

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Bocce_Linguist said:

Damn good post,  hairy_hen.

Indeed.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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 (Edited)

CO said:

sunday256 said:

 

I could care less what people are saying or not saying over at sw.com. I didn't read it. But I did read your blanket flame against all prequel defenders. I'm old enough to have seen SW in the theater. And my opinion I could come up with enough crap to say what's wrong with every one of Lucas' Star Wars films. They all have things about them in which I think could be improved upon, but the point is that I don't sit and nitpick every damn thing. Some people find ways to enjoy the films. I'm one of them. So go ahead and lump us all of us fuckers together. But don't expect everyone to take your comments up the ass. What am I getting at? Don't just assume everyone reading this board agrees that the prequels are shit and you have the right to just say whatever the hell you want without rebuttle.

Francis my ass. Winger for the win.

 

Listen Francis, you sound like a typical PT fan, bring down the OT in the process to lower the standards of all the movies.  I heard that argument before.

The problem is people like you enjoy mediocrity, and that is why Lucas keeps peddling average shit your way for the last 13 years.  Sorry, but I don't think Star Wars and Empire need a damn thing improved on, thats why I love those films, cause they're pretty damn good. 

If you like the PT, god bless you, but don't give me that shit that the OT had the same problems the PT did, because if it did, it would have never been as popular, and the Prequels, or even Empire or Jedi wouldn't exist. 

Go enjoy your 6 film saga of mediocrity Francis!

 

I don't need to bring down the OT to lower the standards. Hell half of you already know ROTJ was ruined by the Ewoks. If you think for one moment that people in this world don't live with mediocrity on a daily basis then you're absolutely blind.

As for enjoying it, lets get something straight...it's more like tolerate to enjoy. I can look past certain defects to see the good things. That doesn't take the defects away, but hell if I'm going to dwell on them all day long. People like you are the ones that post here bitching and complaining about what you don't have.

Just because I "enjoy and tolerate" the prequels, does NOT mean that I'm not on your side for getting the OOT cleaned-up on blu-ray in it's original form. I am and that's why I signed the petition in the first place. There are also a lot of preservationists here that I enjoy seeing the work of. But your attitude against people who may be even one foot over the other side of the fence is completely bullshit.