Just the fact that this has its own pannel, web page and forum speaks volumes. Are these people really that blind? It is all right in front of their faces! I don't understand it. I couldn't even finish reading it. It is depressing.
The way I see it is this.
George's avid fans will be happy with whatever he gives them, he doesn't have to try hard to please and they don't have to fight to be pleased.
Fans of his original films, are frequently sidelined, frequently given the cold shoulder and have to fight for what they love and work to make what they have palatable.
Which makes our position a less passive more passionate, more interactive and engaging experience.
So don't be depressed, be rebellious in the spirit of the films as they were originally presented to us.
CO wrote:
if you listen to their arguments, they are all bullshit, or excuses why they think the PT is good.
Take each comment and refute it. The problem is you're dealing with opinions and feelings...
But with quotes like these below, where do you want the debate to go?
CO wrote:
I have never tried to convince someone that the PT is bad,
*edit*
excuses why they think the PT is good.
So one of them is working on a documentary about the fandom split. I recommended that he consider looking into the other splits fandom has gone through. As CO has explained:
CO wrote:
If you ask a majority of OT fans, MOST of us readily admit Jedi is the worst of the 3 and understand its shortcomings
*and*
Atleast the fans of the OT will readily admit that Jedi is not as great as SW & Empire
This is an example of one of the fissions in OT fandom. There's also the camp who only believe in the original SW. Spelling out the creative decisions which lead to splits or how the audience changed sounds more interesting then continually reading this stuff and face palming yourself.
20th Century Mark wrote:
Just the fact that this has its own pannel
Hard to say if LFL is just latching onto this part of fandom or do they really believe there is need for this.
The truth is, I really don't care if there are people who actually prefer the prequels, or that there are people who think Jar Jar is the best thing since Yoda. That's cool. But as long as the original trilogy is suppressed, stuff like this just sorta rubs salt in the wound. I think that if the OT were restored properly, we all - OT fans / prequel fans / SE fans / CGI fans / CW fans / ... would just celebrate together.
"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars
none said:
The problem is you're dealing with opinions and feelings...
None, I want you to know I am not attacking you personally, but I think these PT fans are giving us 'spin' as Bill O'Reilly calls it.
I am not saying these guys don't enjoy the PT, but what I believe happened is that the PT crowd who enjoyed it dug in towards ANYONE who bashed the movie after Episode I. And once Episode II was bashed the same way, the lines were drawn for a fandom fight.
The PT got crushed by critics, but also by fans, so I believe they feel it is their duty now to defend Lucas on anything he does: SE changes, quality of the PT, etc.
That is why you hear these stupid arguments from their side to justify the movies. The reason I feel this way is when I was a member of TFN I used to be-friend many PT gushers and talk to them off the record in private messages. They would gush, gush and gush all day and when I would get them off the record they would readily admit the PT wasn't as good as the OT. There was a guy Cryogenic who would gush about the deepness of the PT, yet when I got him off the record, he didn't even own them on DVD!!! And admitted to me that the TPM was pretty bad when he watched it again. But he also admitted he was sick of the bashers and just felt he had to defend Lucas.
I'm sorry, I don't buy their true love for the movies, I think it is just a true devotion to George Lucas. There is no one i know who goes around saying Rocky V is better then Rocky I or Jaws 3-D is better then Jaws, but you hear idiots on TFN say that TPM is better then The Original Star Wars???? Sorry, I don't buy it.
CO said:
Like this guy on the panel named Hodges who says that the Prequels were all laid out in 1976, so that should debunk all the PT haters that Lucas made this up as he went along.
This guy's example of "having the Prequels laid out in 1976" - i.e. the prologue to SW novel explaining the political situation from the fall of the Republic to the beginnings of the Rebellion - does not constitute TPM and AOTC* as having been 'mapped out since 1976'. Hodges et al are blowing smoke...
*two movies which even Lucas lately admitted consisted of a lot of 'filler'
The poster also known as, "Tosche-Station"
"This is spurious business!" - 'Anonymous'
"Don't freakin' dissemble!" - Jack Nicholson as the Joker if he were in the movie 'Anger Management'
I don't get why we can't all get along and accept people have differing opinions without cutting them down and judging them or their motives. It's all OPINION anyway not fact. Crazy that some wish physical violence on people who disagree on movies with them. Geez.
Sevb32 said:
I don't get why we can't all get along and accept people have differing opinions without cutting them down and judging them or their motives. It's all OPINION anyway not fact.
Say that to "them". They think that we're wrong and we should just get over it etc. At least we can admit that everything isn't perfect unlike these who think everything that has GL's name on it must be flawless.
And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.
Sevb32 said:
I don't get why we can't all get along and accept people have differing opinions without cutting them down and judging them or their motives. It's all OPINION anyway not fact. Crazy that some wish physical violence on people who disagree on movies with them. Geez.
The threats of physical violence is mostly just trash-talking... But other than that, if people just "got along" when they had differing opinions the world would be a far different place.
I really don't have a problem with people who enjoy the PT. I think the problem is how Lucas treats the OT. Historical revisionism is a trait that I cannot abide in anything, let alone in a pop cultural phenom that is the original Star Wars trilogy.
I know a lot of people who are not a freakishly into Star Wars as myself (not a huge nerd like me) who hated the PT, yet who still like Star Wars. All the revisionism is tarnishing any respect for Lucas from the non fanboy public. There was a time when Star Wars was cool, everybody knew and talked about it. Even in the so called dark ages of the late 80's and early 90's, it was still relevant in all the kids I went to school with. We may not have talked about as much as when we were in grade school, but every time we mentioned films that we liked, the OT always was near the top. The new films never resonated with the public. The PT made a lot of money because they were fricking Star Wars, everybody had to see them, even though they disappointed the majority of the film going public.
There is nothing wrong with being popular. The Beatles are still remembered as being one of the greatest bands of all time. They were extremely popular in their time, as well as such artists like Louis Armstrong, or Frank Sinatra. Regardless if you like their music or not does not deny them of their influence on their contemperaires, or the musicans who followed.
I believe that in the future, the OT will be remembered as cinematic classics, not unlike The Wizard of Oz. Or how the great animated features of Walt Disney, such as Snow White and Fantasia, are remembered today. The PT will slide into obscurity, remembered only by a select few.
I'll give an example. Everybody knows of Mark Twain's masterpieces The Adventures of Tom Sawyer, and The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. How many people know of Tom Sawyer Abroad, or Tom Sawyer Detective? Both where written late in Twain's career, and both failed to live up to the originals. (On a personal note, i believe them to still be better than the craptastic quality of the PT.)
"I'm making ice cream!"
"Filoni: I actually really like the scene where [Lucas] put Hayden [Christensen] in at the end of Return of the Jedi. I heard that was controversal, but I liked it, it really tied it all together for me."
From Dave "full of baloney" Filoni.
Who has replaced McCallum as the biggest kissass employee of Luca$h.
“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.
Lucasfilm rep: Hi, Mr. Filoni, how are you?
Dave Filoni: Good, busy finishing the third season of Clone Wars, what's up?
Lucasfilm rep: Well, we're doing a panel on the positive fan reaction to the prequels and we'd like you to take part.
Dave Filoni: Uh, um, well, you know, I'd love to but I'm a bit busy here with all this work...
Lucasfilm rep: Please Mr. Filoni, it would really be a big help to us here, and George personally would appreciate it. Think of it as part of the Clone War promotion, pushing the next-generation material.
Dave Filoni: Hmm, well I guess if its that important I can take a few hours to do it...
Lucasfilm rep: Thank you very much Mr. Filoni, I'm sure you'll stay with us for many more season of the Clone Wars. You might be asked about Hayden Christensen in Return of the Jedi as well.
A panel organized by the very company promoting the "hated" films, and full of employees of the very same companies....Please. This is as artificially constructed as the prequels themselves. What the fuck do you expect Filoni to say when they tell him to go on the panel and talk about Return of the Jedi?
I was hoping he'd break down, sobbing uncontrollably.
So, this was a panel at an officially sanctioned Lucasfilm event, filled with it's employees? The odds of that being an open and unbiased affair, are about the same as having a snowball fight on Tatooine. ;)
I'd be willing to bet any Lucasfilm employee who publicly criticized any aspect of SW would be pinkslipped pretty fast.
The interesting question is, why the PR attempt at blowing sunshine up the garbage chute now, five years after the last film?
Where were you in '77?
Why?
Blu.
Yes, they have to justify combining all six films in one package.
Because, really, they are a strange and unwieldy group of movies to stick together in one box set. No matter how long the prequels have been around, the trilogies still just don't seem to have anything to do with each other. The tone and level of sophistication are just so incongruous.
Airing this apologia is kind of necessary to create public perception that the movies are of like quality / aesthetically related. Necessary, but not sufficient.
People are pretty set in their opinions at this point though. Either they buy the prequels to get the OT, (or vice versa) or they don't buy it at all because they can't suffer the SE's.
Where were you in '77?
Sevb32 said:
I don't get why we can't all get along and accept people have differing opinions without cutting them down and judging them or their motives. It's all OPINION anyway not fact.
Generally you're right. But in this case, maybe the opinions of this new breed of superfans are having an actual consequence: they help keep the original movies from being taken care of properly. Maybe LFL might come up with some real quality discs if these minions weren't so easy to please. (there was a review of the Family Guy Star Wars who said it's the perfect union because it's the two fan groups with the lowest standards).
Sevb32 said:
I don't get why we can't all get along and accept people have differing opinions without cutting them down and judging them or their motives. It's all OPINION anyway not fact. Crazy that some wish physical violence on people who disagree on movies with them. Geez.
Nobody ever wishes anyone physical violence, as you have to take the internet with a grain of salt ;)
I guarantee you if the OOT were released on DVD in the same quality as the SE in 2004, and then there was a release of the OOT on BluRay next year, none of us here would even give a crap about PT fans.
First, this site wouldn't exist, because the only reason we are here is because Lucas wont release them, so ironically he created the OOT fanbase!
The reason fans like me have resentment on the PT and its fans, is because THEIR the reason we are in the situation we are right now. Back in 1980's, even if you were just a Star Wars '77 fan, and didn't like Empire and Jedi, Lucas didn't change the movie to jive with the sequels. (Other then putting in Episode IV: A New Hope). But he didn't go a redo the conversation between Obiwan and Luke talking about his father that would jive better with the revelation in Empire.
The bottom line is Original Star Wars didn't resent Star Wars Trilogy fans, because essentially we could watch the movie, or movies we loved in their original form. But now because of these moron PT fans, the only way to watch the OOT is in shitty laserdisk quality, which makes it my worst quality DVD in my collection!!!!!
SilverWook wrote:
why the PR attempt at blowing sunshine up the garbage chute now, five years after the last film?
The Prequel Appreciation Society wasn't started by LFL, but LFL did latch onto it for the panel, don't know who approached who. The host of the event is the person who is retorting the RedLetterMedia TPM review.
For me the problem with liking the addition of Hayden, sure it makes the visual correllation easier to follow, but the problem is young Hayden is the one who fell. Shaw's performance is the Anakin which turned away from the dark side and should be the ghost. Seems weird giving screen time to the incarnation of the character which defines the side the movies are always complaining about.
SilverWook continued:
I'd be willing to bet any Lucasfilm employee who publicly criticized any aspect of SW would be pinkslipped pretty fast.
At CV most of the OT people -Kurtz, Daniels, Hamill & Fisher- all were vocal in different ways about the SW regime. (mostly just adult suggestive material, but some elaboration in Kurtz's story on the different directions he thought the series was going instead of what happened) Was entertaining watching the moderators -Hidalgo, Laga'aia- attempts to stamp out or steer the discussion.
Why does it have to be either/or why can't it be both?
--edited--
I responded to your question in the Blu-Ray thread.
Sevb32 said:
Why does it have to be either/or why can't it be both?
Sorry, was there a high def transfer of the OOT from the original negatives like there was for the SE? I certainly couldn't have missed that bit of news...
SilverWook said:
I'd be willing to bet any Lucasfilm employee who publicly criticized any aspect of SW would be pink-slipped pretty fast.
Well.....that would happen only if they criticized any aspect of the PT . If they criticized anything from the OT, especially SW '77, they'd probably get an automatic pay raise.
The poster also known as, "Tosche-Station"
"This is spurious business!" - 'Anonymous'
"Don't freakin' dissemble!" - Jack Nicholson as the Joker if he were in the movie 'Anger Management'
I'd heard that Lucasfilm employees weren't paid very well....
I hope they at least get an extra Christmas bonus for this. ;-)
