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Why don't people hate the Palpatine re-casting in ESB yet despise Force ghost Anakin's re-casting in RotJ? — Page 4

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Anakin Starkiller said:

Z6PO said:

It primarily has to make sense to the people that watch the movie. If it doesn’t look like the burnt guy we saw earlier on, if we can’t recognize him, the movie makers have failed at story telling.

Star Wars is not an historical documentary about the GFFA, it’s a fairy tale that is maybe somewhat based on true facts. Like all fairy tales, entertainment is more important than the truth!

If you’re gonna argue that, I found it extremely jarring as a child the first time I saw the pre-SE version of RotJ with some weird old guy in the place of Anakin.

It’s funny/sad that you can’t follow the simple story or remember a character you met minuets ago & also dismiss Sebastian Shaw as “some weird old guy”.
The problem isn’t the film.
I’m happy Adywan is rightful restoring Shaw. That way he’s in all the versions I watch.

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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But honestly, if Vader’s face ever had to be revealed, it should’ve been David Prowse playing the part.

When’s that fan-edit coming out?

“If you err it is not for me to punish you. We are punished by our sins not for them.”

— Elbert Hubbard

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Even the SE version still had Shaw, at least it did before 2004.

Anyway, I can sort of see how people might not immediately recognize the Shaw ghost as Anakin since the ghost form is healed and in Jedi robes. But that’s what’s cool about it. It requires the audience to turn a few cogs in their brains to figure it out: Obi-Wan was a Jedi and he died…now he’s a ghost. Yoda was a Jedi and he died…now he’s a ghost. So who is that 3rd guy with them? He must be a Jedi…oh, it’s Anakin, because he became good and died as a Jedi! Things don’t need to be so explicitly spelled out as to awkwardly paste Hayden’s head from episode 3 onto the scene, especially when the Hayden ghost fails on both a visual and thematic level.

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screams in the void said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

If you’re gonna argue that, I found it extremely jarring as a child the first time I saw the pre-SE version of RotJ with some weird old guy in the place of Anakin.

^ and I am going to guess here that you only saw that pre-SE version after you saw the SE version .

That can be the only explanation. I saw the Shaw scene zillions of time before ‘04 and never had trouble distinguishing who the third Force ghost was. Who else was it supposed to be???

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I had trouble discerning whether or not Force ghost Anakin had hair or was bald (standard definition television, remember), but I had absolutely no trouble telling both he and Uncle Fester were played by the same actor.

“If you err it is not for me to punish you. We are punished by our sins not for them.”

— Elbert Hubbard

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Just because someone prefers some SE stuff doesn’t mean they don’t want the OUT released.

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theMaestro said:

Even the SE version still had Shaw, at least it did before 2004.

Anyway, I can sort of see how people might not immediately recognize the Shaw ghost as Anakin since the ghost form is healed and in Jedi robes. But that’s what’s cool about it. It requires the audience to turn a few cogs in their brains to figure it out: Obi-Wan was a Jedi and he died…now he’s a ghost. Yoda was a Jedi and he died…now he’s a ghost. So who is that 3rd guy with them? He must be a Jedi…oh, it’s Anakin, because he became good and died as a Jedi! Things don’t need to be so explicitly spelled out as to awkwardly paste Hayden’s head from episode 3 onto the scene, especially when the Hayden ghost fails on both a visual and thematic level.

In '83 I didn’t think Shaw was in Jedi robes - I thought he was dressed as a Tatooine moisture farmer. Which seemed appropriate at the time…

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Omni said:

Just because someone prefers some SE stuff doesn’t mean they don’t want the OUT released.

this doesn’t change the fact that I am still baffled by someone preferring this particular SE change on a site that was explicitly created to preserve and promote/petition for the original theatrical versions of the Original Trilogy .

https://screamsinthevoid.deviantart.com/

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Anakin Starkiller’s obviously a younger member of this forum, and was first exposed to SW by way of the PT/SE '04. I can understand gravitating to what one was first exposed to.

What baffles me is his inability to comprehend why Sebastian Shaw as the redeemed Anakin isn’t horribly illogical.

“If you err it is not for me to punish you. We are punished by our sins not for them.”

— Elbert Hubbard

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Wanderer_ said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Marjorie Eaton with chimp eyes looks like “a guy in a cheap mask”, whilst Ian McDiarmid in cheap ROTS makeup looks “remastered”.

I don’t share that opinion, either.

Both have make up effects applied, the original holds up poorly whereas Ians make up looks a lot more organic and believable. In fact while watching the original version i always felt the emperors face was about to melt off at any stage of the movie.
https://images.app.goo.gl/kVczqCH7ggaiEoDM9

Well, if you compare Revisited Palpatine to OUT Palpatine, of course the former’s gonna look superior to the latter.

I assumed that was the comparison :p
Unless there is yet another change i haven’t seen.

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Wanderer_ said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Wanderer_ said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Marjorie Eaton with chimp eyes looks like “a guy in a cheap mask”, whilst Ian McDiarmid in cheap ROTS makeup looks “remastered”.

I don’t share that opinion, either.

Both have make up effects applied, the original holds up poorly whereas Ians make up looks a lot more organic and believable. In fact while watching the original version i always felt the emperors face was about to melt off at any stage of the movie.
https://images.app.goo.gl/kVczqCH7ggaiEoDM9

Well, if you compare Revisited Palpatine to OUT Palpatine, of course the former’s gonna look superior to the latter.

I assumed that was the comparison :p
Unless there is yet another change i haven’t seen.

We’re discussing the 2004 change where George replaced the original ESB Emperor with the horrible RotS monster face Emperor. Not Adywan’s excellent fanedit.

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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ray_afraid said:

Wanderer_ said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Wanderer_ said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Marjorie Eaton with chimp eyes looks like “a guy in a cheap mask”, whilst Ian McDiarmid in cheap ROTS makeup looks “remastered”.

I don’t share that opinion, either.

Both have make up effects applied, the original holds up poorly whereas Ians make up looks a lot more organic and believable. In fact while watching the original version i always felt the emperors face was about to melt off at any stage of the movie.
https://images.app.goo.gl/kVczqCH7ggaiEoDM9

Well, if you compare Revisited Palpatine to OUT Palpatine, of course the former’s gonna look superior to the latter.

I assumed that was the comparison :p
Unless there is yet another change i haven’t seen.

We’re discussing the 2004 change where George replaced the original ESB Emperor with the horrible RotS monster face Emperor. Not Adywan’s excellent fanedit.

I honestly never noticed the difference, in my mind the emperor was always Ian.

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Wanderer_ said:

ray_afraid said:

Wanderer_ said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Wanderer_ said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Marjorie Eaton with chimp eyes looks like “a guy in a cheap mask”, whilst Ian McDiarmid in cheap ROTS makeup looks “remastered”.

I don’t share that opinion, either.

Both have make up effects applied, the original holds up poorly whereas Ians make up looks a lot more organic and believable. In fact while watching the original version i always felt the emperors face was about to melt off at any stage of the movie.
https://images.app.goo.gl/kVczqCH7ggaiEoDM9

Well, if you compare Revisited Palpatine to OUT Palpatine, of course the former’s gonna look superior to the latter.

I assumed that was the comparison :p
Unless there is yet another change i haven’t seen.

We’re discussing the 2004 change where George replaced the original ESB Emperor with the horrible RotS monster face Emperor. Not Adywan’s excellent fanedit.

I honestly never noticed the difference, in my mind the emperor was always Ian.

See, now this is the kind of stuff I can’t believe is said on a site dedicated to preserving the OUT.

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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 (Edited)

I believe what he means is he thought Ian was already playing the part in 1980 original cut and later changed the make up for ROTJ. It’s what I thought as a kid.
What I can’t understand is why Lucas didn’t shoot the new scene during ROTJ filming. Had this changed been made in 1985 video releases of TESB it would have been seamless but also people wouldn’t have much to complain about.

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Wanderer_ said:

ray_afraid said:

Wanderer_ said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Wanderer_ said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Marjorie Eaton with chimp eyes looks like “a guy in a cheap mask”, whilst Ian McDiarmid in cheap ROTS makeup looks “remastered”.

I don’t share that opinion, either.

Both have make up effects applied, the original holds up poorly whereas Ians make up looks a lot more organic and believable. In fact while watching the original version i always felt the emperors face was about to melt off at any stage of the movie.
https://images.app.goo.gl/kVczqCH7ggaiEoDM9

Well, if you compare Revisited Palpatine to OUT Palpatine, of course the former’s gonna look superior to the latter.

I assumed that was the comparison :p
Unless there is yet another change i haven’t seen.

We’re discussing the 2004 change where George replaced the original ESB Emperor with the horrible RotS monster face Emperor. Not Adywan’s excellent fanedit.

I honestly never noticed the difference, in my mind the emperor was always Ian.

You don’t seem to get what we’re saying - the comparison you posted was 1980 monkeylady Emperor and Adywan’s fan edit alteration of the 2004 Emperor, which is vastly superior to the official 2004 Emperor because he literally cut and pasted images of McDiarmid’s ROTJ makeup on top of it.

THIS is the official 2004 one, which is just McDiarmid in his ROTS makeup and it looks like absolute trash.

a trolling bantha

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ChainsawAsh said:

Wanderer_ said:

ray_afraid said:

Wanderer_ said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Wanderer_ said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Marjorie Eaton with chimp eyes looks like “a guy in a cheap mask”, whilst Ian McDiarmid in cheap ROTS makeup looks “remastered”.

I don’t share that opinion, either.

Both have make up effects applied, the original holds up poorly whereas Ians make up looks a lot more organic and believable. In fact while watching the original version i always felt the emperors face was about to melt off at any stage of the movie.
https://images.app.goo.gl/kVczqCH7ggaiEoDM9

Well, if you compare Revisited Palpatine to OUT Palpatine, of course the former’s gonna look superior to the latter.

I assumed that was the comparison :p
Unless there is yet another change i haven’t seen.

We’re discussing the 2004 change where George replaced the original ESB Emperor with the horrible RotS monster face Emperor. Not Adywan’s excellent fanedit.

I honestly never noticed the difference, in my mind the emperor was always Ian.

You don’t seem to get what we’re saying - the comparison you posted was 1980 monkeylady Emperor and Adywan’s fan edit alteration of the 2004 Emperor, which is vastly superior to the official 2004 Emperor because he literally cut and pasted images of McDiarmid’s ROTJ makeup on top of it.

THIS is the official 2004 one, which is just McDiarmid in his ROTS makeup and it looks like absolute trash.

I understand, but while its not as good as aparent fan made version, its still much better than the original i watched on tape. I dont understand whats so bad about the sample you posted.

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Wanderer_ said:

I dont understand whats so bad about the sample you posted.

It’s the same make-up/mask used in RotS, which is much different than the RotJ look.
I get that anal retentive fans like that it’s the same actor, but the execution is awful. As are the stupid changes to the dialog in the scene.
I personally love the original Emperor & wish they’d stuck closer to that. Clive Revel’s voice is awesome & the look is creepy & mysterious.
I dig Ian too, though. (In Jedi. He’s silly in everything else.)

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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 (Edited)

ray_afraid said:

I personally love the original Emperor & wish they’d stuck closer to that. Clive Revel’s voice is awesome & the look is creepy & mysterious.

This 110%.

I dig Ian too, though. (In Jedi. He’s silly in everything else.)

He’s silly in ROTS once he whips out his laser dildo and goes full Henrietta. Before that point, he’s very good; I’ll go so far to say he’s better in most of the PT than he is throughout ROTJ.

“If you err it is not for me to punish you. We are punished by our sins not for them.”

— Elbert Hubbard

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DuracellEnergizer said:

He’s silly in ROTS once he whips out his laser dildo and goes full Henrietta. Before that point, he’s very good; I’ll go so far to say he’s better in most of the PT than he is throughout ROTJ.

I’m not familiar with that expression… Is it an obscure reference to Evil Dead II, or am I way off?

Regarding the casting of the emperor, I much prefer the calm, eerie portrayal of the original. Already in ROTJ, I thought McDiarmid’s cackling was a bit over-the-top, nevermind in ROTS. But then many things are over-the-top in ROTJ, so I guess a Revill-style emperor may not have worked as well without also darkening the tone elsewhere in the film. But I can accept that from a continuity point of view, the recasting in ESB makes sense in principle. It’s a shame they messed around with the make-up, hood and dialogue.

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^I’m certain he’s referencing Evil Dead II.

Regarding Palpy, I mostly saw the '04 DVD when I was younger, but started watching P&S VHS copies eventually because I ended up liking the originals and didn’t own the GOUT DVD. Suffice to say a younger viewer who grew up with the PT and SEs should be able to see why the Emperor replacement is so poorly executed it’s embarrassing. The original Emperor is a small but incredibly memorable performance, and it outshines the phoned in Ian shoot by a mile.

And Shaw makes way more sense than Hayden in ROTJ.

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