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Why doesn't Lucus just release both versions? — Page 2
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Originally posted by: jimbo
Listen OK people like effects. Thats why just about every new movie has em. People prefer seeing the Wampa to just hearing him. People prefer digital creatures to puppets that I didn't even know were suppose to be creatures.
Again, I ask... you know this how? We challenged you with this before and you never brought forth the evidence. In fact, as I recall, you disappeared for a while. Show us your proof.
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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The only things I think that weren't possible due to technical limitations back then were:
*Luke's Landspeeder without the 'forcefield' and blurry vehicle shadow.
*The Jabba the Hutt scene in ANH (although I think even that was only left out because they hadn't decided what Jabba should look like, fact is that the technological hurdle arose when they decided to make Jabba a huge slug-like creature in RotJ). The scene in ANH was left out on purpose back then, not because of technical hurdles, imho.
*More agile Dewbacks.
*The Jawa riding on the huge beast of burden.
*Fancier blastoff of the Falcon from Mos Eisley
*Censoring the violent scenes aboard the Death Star shootouts
*Adding the "Close the blastdoors!" line to the stormtroopers (Hehe, in fact that seems to be a goofup from the sound-editors,
because that line is in the 1977 version of the german voiceover. So it was truly intended to be in there from the start.)
*Rebel ships starting from Yavin IV.
*More vivid space battle during the assault on the Death Star.
*Extended Whampa creature footage.
*Toned down opacity of snowspeeder cockpits.
*More flexible camera paths during the Falcons approach to Cloud City
*Mass scene of people listening to Lando's announcement.
*"Jedi Rock" Musical scene in Jabba's palace.
Everything else could have been done in the first place without much of a hassle, imho. Lucas is just not being honest about this and I really can't understand why. It almost feels like he knew he'd be sneaking in stuff that fans wouldn't like. Instead of being honest and saying "Well, I changed my mind about some of the decisions and compromises I made back then and they don't fit in my Star Wars agenda nowadays, so I went in and adjusted them.", he hides behind the 'technological limitations at that time' statement as some sort of universal excuse for every change he made.
Many of the cool things that got into the special editions (meeting Biggs Darklighter before the Death Star assault, extended Whampa scene, removing the 'forcefield' from Luke's landspeeder and toning down the opacity of the snowspeeder cockpits) is just the sugar added to the mix to distract from the scenes Lucas changed his mind about, imho.
Also, even if he would be worried about the OT outselling the SE, he could avoid that very easily by including the OT with the SE in a big double package. That way the OT sales could simply be added up to the SE sales.
Edit: Refrased post fundamentally.
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Ehm... are you trying to tell me they weren't able to get Mark Hamill to record a scream for ESB back when it was made?! Or that Greedo shooting first was impossible to make back when they did ANH? If you are, I'm not agreeing on that one for sure.
Imho, that was Lucas changing his mind and trying to cram those changes in there by all means necessary, regardless of how fake it would seem. That gives me the impression that he just wanted to get back at the people who forced any sort of compromise upon him back then.
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The list I posted above, contains all the FX that truly weren't possible at the time the films were originally made, imho. All the changes not in that list were possible back when the films were shot and thus prove that the SE were mostly about giving Lucas a chance to go back and have his way with his changed mind about a great many things - not about improving SFX.
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Heres a link to a list of all changes Text
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Nonetheless, I embrace all versions of Star Wars and would recommend to Lucas that he do the same which is the point of the topic title of this thread.
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By that logic if there were equal amounts of both good x and bad y in the SE then the SE would somehow be equivalent to the original OT. Taking it further perhaps Lucas could insanely fugger up the OT even more with adding more Jar Jar, or changing Luke and Leia never kissing (they're brother and sister!) or Luke never losing his hand and gets a good spanking from his dad instead or just whatever, and as long as he added way more super-duper improved CGI to every frame of film and that such 'improvements' outnumbered the 'bad' changes than would the newer SE/AE/UE versions be better?
Of course not. Films, movies, whatever are art. When it comes to art it simply either works or it doesn't. It is in fact the littlest, or subtlest changes or nuances that makes something from simply okay or good, to great. Not all changes are equal. Just compare the two different versions of Brazil from a thought-provoking cynical ending to a 180 happy ending. No different than cutting/missing the last minute of Night of the Living Dead or 12 Monkeys where one might assume a happing ending when it is clearly not. Hitchcock removed that last minute of Vertigo that would have utterly transformed the dark despair to a simple whodunnit.
You may argue that the changes in the SE are not as signficant as adding a happy ending to Casablanca, or the original sad break-up endings to When Harry Met Sally or Pretty Woman. And perhaps they are not, it's certainly arguable. I however argue that are changes are significant and greatly alter the mood, flow, and most importantly character of the films. Adding Jabba isn't just bad CGI and acting (which it is) but it also takes away from the first time Luke (and the audience) even sees the immense and impressive full scale Falcon. It's just breathtaking. And that's why it's funny when Luke calls it a pile of junk, unlike the audience as a character in the Star Wars universe he of course would be used to space ships. The Luke scream in TESB is just a tiny audio change and yet it utterly alters Lukes character. From a poor and rash Jedi student who wouldn't listen to Yoda or Obi-Wan, to being defeated by Darth Vader and given the ultimate choice, Luke finally does the right thing and chooses against the darkside (something his father clearly failed to do) even at the cost of possibly his own life. But his tragic, honourable, yet deeply calm and thoughtful choice becomes a comical scream for survival, and what was a great dramatic moment in TESB, something that really elevated the film becomes a blah pointless annoyance, Luke might as well have slipped and fell off.
These are just a few examples. Maybe they are small changes, but they are SIGNIFICANT changes. As it is there a few small, but fatally significant changes that make the SE poorer films in comparison. Different, interesting in their own way even, but poorer. And the fact is, if they weren't significant, then Lucas himself wouldn't have done them. That's why George should release both versions.
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However I also agree with jimbo, that there are a lot of things that just intensify the mood (the capture of R2 in the SE is a good example, imho) of the setting. I liked moving that scene further into dusk, it kinda gave it an eerie feel to the first jawa encounter.
Finally, I have to say that I share rebel scumb's list of changes that had to be removed to make me embrace the SE a bit more. Lots of things are actually cool changes.
As soon as that OT+SE DVD set will come out, I'll make my custom version of the trilogy with perfect sound and picture. Coming to think of it, that may be what Lucas is afraid of. Just another one of those guesses... I guess.
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You asked, I answered.
If you disagree with me, that's fine. You're entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. That you don't seem to understand the differences or the reasons for it is too bad though and I can't help you there. Perhaps opening up your horizons a little in the future will help.
In any case, I agree with you that best version of the classic Star Wars trilogy should certainly be made available to people, and that is clearly the original version
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I never said I had a complaint with every change, I said that the changes in the SE made the films worse. Be it many bad changes or even just one significant change, if it has a damaging effect on the overall film then even an infinite number of small improvements cannot and do not balance that out.
If you like most of the changes in the SE, that's fine. To me, the SE are lesser films. Failing to understand, or being unable to see things from another point of view is simply unfortunate, but being obstinate about it won't help you. I enjoy discussing different views on films, but I certainly don't see any point in continuing this exercise as you seem to have your mind set no matter what, so I would recommend that you just drop it.
To each his own.
