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Why do they go into exile?

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Many of you know that I do not hate the PT, but am more than willing to point out it's flaws. That said, here is one that I just started to dwell on alittle bit more and it bugs me. I know Lucas had to have 3 leave off so that 4 worked. That's a given. However, explain this:

Yoda and Obi Wan split up to go kill the two Sith. Obi Wan battles Anakin, defeats him and believes that Anakin is dead. One Sith gone. Yoda goes toe to toe with Darth Sidieous and eventually backs down to run away. He says he is going to go into exile. Returns to the Tantive where Obi Wan eventually shows up. Now, the belief between them HAS to be that Vader is dead. Sure, in the 19 years in between, they'll realize that Vader was NOT in fact dead, but at that moment, we have to assume that Obi Wan believes he was successful.

So, with two powerful, healthy Jedi...why did they not go confront the Emperor and end the Empire in it infancy? Surely Obi Wan and Yoda had to assume they would have a better chance of killing Sidious than Anakin's offspring. The twins were kept in secret from the Emperor at the end of III not from Vader. Their focus should have been on finishing the job, not waiting 20 years so they could be old and less powerful, but have two other younger Jedi. Yoda and Obi Wan were as strong with the Force as they were ever going to be...so why not do what was neccessary, instead of putting all the pressure on Luke?

I wonder if Lucas even realized that, or just thought it wrapped up neatly for ANH? I mean, I'm not a Lucas basher, but that is a pretty big leap.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Hmm, very interesting point, and it had me scratching my head for a minute. I'm quick to jump on Lucas when I find a plot hole, but even I never thought about this before. I at least wanted the movie to be good, so I probably filled in gaps in my mind. I knew they had to go into exile, so the fact that they did made enough sense to me. I wouldn't be surprised if the novel explained it. But in my own thinking, I'm going to have to go with the secrecy of the whole mission. The Chancellor/Emperor seemed pretty popular when he turned the Republic into an Empire, and everyone already believed that the Jedi were evil and needed to be exterminated. I guess they figured they only had one shot at staging this coup (similar to Mace trying to covertly kill Palpatine rather than go through legal channels). Now that Yoda was ID'd and lost, the Emperor could garner even more sympathy for himself and malice against the Jedi by a second attempted assassination. Plus, I'm sure the place would be on high alert. Obviously, Obi-Wan and Yoda had no problem getting through Clone Troops earlier, so there's no problem there. It's the political machine that was against them, I'm sure, and by that point, even if they had killed Palpatine, he would have had underlings and supporters that took his place (or thought they were taking his place). But public opinion would still be swayed against Yoda and Obi-Wan, and killing Palpatine would do little good at that point. So they had to wait until the Empire's tyranny became less popular.

A stretch perhaps, but this is all speculation on my part.

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Yeah, but they had atleast 2,000 Senators that didn't see eye-to-eye with the Emperor, per the deleted scenes..I believe.


And politics aside, basically the Devil with actual 'magic' was in control of the Universe. I think killing him should take priority over hiding the children until they are old enough to fight.
The Jedi are all but extinct.......
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Well, here is the screenplay. The only insight it says in there on this matter are the following.
Obiwan: I will take the child and, watch over him. Master Yoda, do you think Anakin's twins will be able to defeat Darth Siddious?
Yoda: Strong the force runs in the Skywalker line. Hope we can...Done, it is. Until the time is right dissappear we will.

And, in the Quigon thing:
Yoda: Failed to stop the sith lord, I have. Still much to learn there is...
Quigon: Patience. You will have time. I did not.

So, basically one can deduce from the screenplay. That they didn't go after Siddious becuase, they were in training with Quigon. Although, I would say that Yoda wasn't as, healthy as he was before the battle. He did get blasted with lighting, had to avoid those floaty circles, got blasted with lighting again, and fell down a distance after all. Obiwan wasn't powerful enough to fight Siddious on his own. So, they had to train with Quigon and, then they couldn't get siddious when they had recovered. Since the Empire was more powerful then before thus, they had to wait. Not only that the thought of the twins were fresh on their minds. So, they would probably give away that to the Emperor too. Then, again it could just be that both Yoda and, Obiwan got sick after the fights and, needed time off.


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who can read that script and give it any credibility. jeez that script stinks
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The Jedis' whole continuity-of-governance plan sucks. They don't attempt to rally with the survivors, leaving the survivors to be hunted down and turned or killed by Vader (per EU). They don't attempt a third strike against the Emperor. They hide from the Rebellion almost as effectively as they hid from the Empire. They don't fight the propaganda war. They don't seem to have substantial caches of weapons or equipment. They don't attempt to create any new Jedi while waiting for Luke and Leia to grow up. They would've been seriously boned if Luke died in a T-16 accident or Leia was killed on one of her "mercy missions."

Their whole "going into exile" plan was probably based on religious, not pragmatic, reasons. To the Jedi mind, exile was probably the only thing that made sense at that point. Being raised in a fanatical order of super-powered warrior-monks must not develop much creative thinking.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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i think the reason they didnt go after him was strickly cause he was too strong, we already learned that yoda and him were an even match, but i think that both of them were sooo far ahead of obiwan that having him there wouldnt do anything, it was like when mace fought pali haveing 4 council members didnt help it was still pali vs mace after about 2 secs, same would have obiwan would have been killed really quickly and so it wouldnt have mattered is my guess.
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But Mace and Company didn't go planning to kill Palpatine. They went in to arrest Palpatine. Only after Palpatine began fighting did Mace change his mind and decide to assassinate him. They spent maybe five minutes coming up with an arrest plan, it failed, and Palpatine killed the lot of them. They failed because they were using the law enforcement method -- utilize the minimum amount of force and take your target alive, with minimum injuries.

This has no bearing on Obi-wan and Yoda's failure to come up with a viable assassination plan over the next month, year, or 20 years. Obi-wan and Yoda knew that the law enforcement method wouldn't work, so they could use the military method -- utilize as much force as necessary to neutralize your opponent as quickly as possible. We know the Emperor left Coruscant -- the Jedi could've struck at his shuttle or his Star Destroyer. We know the Jedi could enter the Imperial Capitol with impunity -- they could've gone back and caught him unawares, or booby-trapped his office. We know the Emperor surrounded himself with armed guards and courtiers -- the Jedi could've infiltrated them. The surviving Jedi could've marshalled their resources to strike against their enemy; they really only needed to get two targets, since the deaths of the Emperor and Vader inexorably led to the attrition of the Empire down to the Remnant.

But they didn't do any of those things. Yoda lost one fight -- really a ritualized duel -- and went into comfortable retirement while Palpatine inflicted unprecedented depredations on the galaxy. Can you imagine if modern wars were fought like that? George W. Bush would sneak into Osama bin Laden's headquarters and they'd have a fistfight. George played rugby and keeps in pretty good shape, but Osama's got reach on him. Let's ignore the purported kidney problems and say Osama knocks George down. Doesn't kill him, doesn't even capture him or wound him, just knocks him down. Then George runs away, "Ah've gotta go inta exile back on ma ranch," and Osama bin Laden takes over the United States and puts all our women in burkas. On his way to Crawford, George runs into Dick Cheney, fresh from maiming and burning alive Abu Musab al Zarqawi. They decide that Osama is too powerful to fight, so Dick is going to go into exile, too. Pretty ridiculous, right? That's how the Sidious-Yoda confrontation turned out. Yoda was *knocked down* and he gave up ran away. "Wars not make one great." Losing a duel and running away makes one great.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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i donno i think they knew pali wasnt going to come, and they would have to kill him i think that the you are underarrest was just a formality i am pretty sure they knew all along they were going to kill him thats why mace didnt want anakin along cause he knew anakin was attached to pali.
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That is what the prequels did, they have opened up more questions than answered them. For every 'plot hole' that I myself have and many other fans who weren't pleased with the PT, there is always an answer, although it may be a ridiculous answer, but there is one for every point.

Example: Leia remembering her mom, to me Lucas just couldn't explain it, so the company line is, "She remembers her mom through the force." I don't buy it, it is such a cop out, but it is an answer.

Another one is Owen remembering C-3PO in Episode IV, when he owned him in Episode II! Everyone who defends this says in the Original Star Wars to see how he questioned C-3PO to see if it was him. He asked him he was a protocol droid and spoke Bocche? Yeah, that was grilling! And he didn't even buy R2-D2 until the other droid blew up!

My whole point if Lucas wanted to make a strong prequel trilogy he would have been real dilligent in his planning, and make sure that everything matched up, but that is why they are average movies overall compared to the OT, because just like his directing, and his dialogue, now his story was not up to par either.

Wasted chance for movie greatness.
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About the C3PO and Padme's plot hole, those could easily be avoided, had GL had put some thought before writing the prequels. Was it REALLY necessary to have Anakin creating C3PO?! Was it really necessary for C3PO to be on the prequels?! Why do everything GL does is for toy selling? I mean, he had C3PO in 3 different forms, just so he could sell 3 different toys, how stupid is that? And suddenly he faced himself with a HUGE plot hole, Owen Lars OWING C3PO, because I belive he didn't even remember what happened on episode 4. So his solution to it was simply to ignore the plot hole and hope that the fans come up with an answer for it. I'm am absolutely sure that GL thought that we would eventually discuss it and come up with a solution to all those plot holes. How wrong was him.

Now, about the whole exile: I also thought it could be a plot hole, a reason for Obi Wan hiding in Tatooine on ANH and Yoda hiding in Dagobah in ESB. But perhaps they had a reason for it, and all planned out for what Luke would eventually do. Or... maybe it IS a plot hole and GL was just waiting for someone like me to come up with the answer...
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my guess on the matter, apart from everything that happens in the prequels, is that there was simply no way of mounting an attack on the new empire, even in its infancy. it would seem that the clone wars were so destructive and crushing that yoda and obi-wan may have been lucky to be alive at all. Even Tarkin says in ANH to vader, "you are all thats left." and they are both suprised to see that obi-wan is alive. For yoda, it is clear that he is getting very old, and with his strenghth in the force he may have seen years ago that he was not the person to defeat vader. For obi-wan, his purpose in living on tatoine seems to be for the sole purpose of protecting luke, at a distance, which he succesfully does. in this way we can see that even if obi-wan had been strong enough to attack the emperor and vader, the small possibilty of losing the fight meant that there would be literally no hope for the jedi and the rebellion as there would be no one to train luke and the jedi would be truly extinct. Instead he stays near luke and guides the events as far as he can, and it works out pretty well. i think with all the talk in ESB of seeing the future enough to know whether or not to take a course of action, yoda and obi-wan couldve seen that an attack by them just wouldnt have worked out, and that should wait for the son of skywalker. even the emperor knows what a great threat he would be from the start.
thank the maker
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I actually hadn't thought about the senario in detail...it's pretty funny actually.

It boils down to Lucas trying to fill plot holes, but made more in the process.

I think the initial idea was distorted in the prequels, In the ROTJ novel it's kind of expanded on (which Lucas approved, but has since been abandoned).

From ROTJ Novel

"When your father left, he didn't know your mother was pregnant. Your mother and I knew he would find out eventually, but we wanted to keep you both as safe as possible, for as long as possible."

Instead Lucas changed it so Anakin did know about her being pregnant, he ends up turning because he has visions of her dying during childbirth, the unborn child may have something to do with the turn, but you're given the impression it has more to do with learning the power to save his wife from death.

and

"When I saw what had become of him,I tried to dissuade him, to draw him back from the dark side. We fought...your father fell into a molten pit, when your father clawed his way out of that fiery pool, the change had been burned into him forever".


Again more changes, Anakin catches on fire at the bank of a molten river instead of falling into a pit, how he burned up isn't really that important, but the fact that Kenobi never sticks around to see him climb up the bank of the river, or pit as it was...adds more confusion to the logic of their thinking.

And the Leia "remembering" thing:

""...and your mother took Leia to live as the daughter of Senator Organa, on Alderaan".

You can tell it was the plan to have Anakin's wife survive and go live on Alderaan, then die from some unknown cause like a broken heart or some nonsense, when Leia is little (since Leia remembers some details in ROTJ) ..... I guess Lucas didn't feel like he could let Padme survive Episode 3, and leave her death unexplained between the movies, which is understandable I guess...He could have painted himself out of the corner with Anakin causing life threatening injuries to Padme, and having her die after spending some time with Leia or something....blech.


But basically he changed so much stuff around on these prequels, all it did was make Kenobi and Yoda look like illogical cowards, he turned Anakin into a desperate idiot ..instead of being obsessed with gaining power, and Padme' a melodramatic depressive.
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i sure am glad he cleared things up with those prequels.
thank the maker
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Originally posted by: Tim Lehrbach
I actually hadn't thought about the senario in detail...it's pretty funny actually.

It boils down to Lucas trying to fill plot holes, but made more in the process.

I think the initial idea was distorted in the prequels, In the ROTJ novel it's kind of expanded on (which Lucas approved, but has since been abandoned).

From ROTJ Novel

"When your father left, he didn't know your mother was pregnant. Your mother and I knew he would find out eventually, but we wanted to keep you both as safe as possible, for as long as possible."

Instead Lucas changed it so Anakin did know about her being pregnant, he ends up turning because he has visions of her dying during childbirth, the unborn child may have something to do with the turn, but you're given the impression it has more to do with learning the power to save his wife from death.

and

"When I saw what had become of him,I tried to dissuade him, to draw him back from the dark side. We fought...your father fell into a molten pit, when your father clawed his way out of that fiery pool, the change had been burned into him forever".


Again more changes, Anakin catches on fire at the bank of a molten river instead of falling into a pit, how he burned up isn't really that important, but the fact that Kenobi never sticks around to see him climb up the bank of the river, or pit as it was...adds more confusion to the logic of their thinking.

And the Leia "remembering" thing:

""...and your mother took Leia to live as the daughter of Senator Organa, on Alderaan".

You can tell it was the plan to have Anakin's wife survive and go live on Alderaan, then die from some unknown cause like a broken heart or some nonsense, when Leia is little (since Leia remembers some details in ROTJ) ..... I guess Lucas didn't feel like he could let Padme survive Episode 3, and leave her death unexplained between the movies, which is understandable I guess...He could have painted himself out of the corner with Anakin causing life threatening injuries to Padme, and having her die after spending some time with Leia or something....blech.


But basically he changed so much stuff around on these prequels, all it did was make Kenobi and Yoda look like illogical cowards, he turned Anakin into a desperate idiot ..instead of being obsessed with gaining power, and Padme' a melodramatic depressive.


Text

Even though it is in the novel, and not in the movie, it shows Lucas did not have this 'master' plan even on how Anakins unamed wife survived or died at time of filming the OT, or how Anakin turned either. Also in ROTJ novel, Uncle Owen is Kenobis brother, which would make more sense, cause it would make it so Anakin would never know where they live, when in the PT, Luke lives in the same exact place his half-brother still does, under the same last name, SKYWALKER! How stupid is that!

This is where Lucas didn't plan out the PT, so it hurts the consistency with the OT: Anakin is born on Tatooine, and creates C-3PO, who is owned by Owen Lars, his half-brother, who never moves after Anakin becomes Darth Vader, and keeps this special boy Lukes last name of Skywalker, only to encounted the same droid twenty years later, who is along with the same droid Anakin & Padme brought with them when they came in AOTC, what one big coincidence!

Oh yeah, and also, if Palpatine created Anakin through the Midiclorians, then now the end scene in ROTJ is Grandpa Palpatine electrocuting Grandson Skywalker as Father Skywalker watches, and then Father Skywalker kills Grandpa Palpatine to save Grandson Skywalker two movies removed of Father Skywalker blowing up Daughter Leia's planet, and then freezing in carbonite her boyfriend! Geez, just don't let her date him if you don't approve Darth!

What the Prequels have done, is make me realize how stupid these characters are for the choices they made, Thanks George!

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Some more WTF plot holes...

I see alot of people ask "why did Lucas make Anakin grow up on Tatooine?" I think Lucas did intend for that part of it because in ANH, Ben tells Luke that "your uncle didn't hold with your fathers ideals...thought he should have STAYED HERE and not gotten involved."

The fact that Luke has kept the Skywalker name in ANH, is because Lucas didn't initially intend Vader to be Lukes father, why go to the trouble of hiding someone if you're not going to change their name, Ben did...and the fact NOBODY involved in the filmmaking knew until ESB that Vader was his father further indicates that Lucas created or incorperated the idea later down the line, after he knew it could be futher explained in a sequel.

R2 and 3PO create big plot holes, caused by Anakin creating 3PO...if Lucas really felt the need to force them into the story, wouldn't it have been more plausible to have Anakin make R2 instead??, wouldn't someone who is supposedly interested in becoming a pilot, or already is a pilot want to create a astro droid for navigation and repairs, instead of a protocol droid which is more suited for a political person like Anakin's wife? Having Padme' own 3PO, and Anakin create 3PO would have solved the Owen knows 3PO plot hole...Ben not knowing R2, is also a bit of a stretch, but probably could have been smoothed over by not having R2 running around in Episode 3 with himself and Anakin, then referring to R2 by name many times....Too bad Ben never remembers owning a droid (R4) either....

Owen is another plot hole, originally he was supposed to be Ben's brother...he could actually have been Anakin's brother, but because Luca made Anakin an immaculate conception without a father, kind of ruins that chance....instead he's Anakin's half brother and doesn't come along until Ep2, and is never really shown having a disagreement with Anakin leaving on a "crusade", or for that matter how Ben even knows about Owen since they never meet until Ben is ready to drop off Anakin's child....a poorly explained and wasted character.
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i never understood why lucas made anakin come from tatooine til AOTC. because of his connection with owen
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i always imagined that uncle owen was not related at all, but just a random guy that obi-wan chose to keep luke, telling him what the deal was with luke just so they'd know what they were dealing with, and basically having him do his best to keep luke in the rural life. but then when obi-wan realizes lukes potential and the certain fate of his adoptive parents, he tells him a fable about his unlce and his father being at odds about involvement in wars, helping luke to side with his adventurous nature. but thats just what i imagined, and it seemed cool.
thank the maker
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Man I forgot how much A) I missed these forums and discussions and B) How much the illogical crud listed above, coupled with poor filmmaking, made me dislike the PT!

I've come home again!!!